I may be starting a fire here, but what the heck, it's winter, and I'm bored
with the Christmas thang.  (Oops, thunderhead forming nearby.)

First, let me say that I have absolutely no argument with any fire-proof
anything, including the best gold-plated fuel hose anybody installs in their
boat.  I mean it's your boat, right?  Boats were invented so we could
indulge them and ourselves in over spending on "stuff" for it.  From a risk
management perspective, "sufficiently adequate" fuel hose in my particular
old wooden boat is good enough.  This doesn't mean I don't lust after my
friend Larry Brown's multi-colored, stainless mesh covered, Aeroquip fitting
fuel manifold - the thing's to DIE for.  But I ain't gonna replicate it, no
matter how fine it looks.  My ugly old system accomplishes the same basic
functions.

It seems from my perch that most boat fires happen in port and seem to have
their origins in the electrical side of things and that the fires are most
often out of control in a matter of seconds.  Does anybody have an
experience of catching and suppressing a fully fledged brightly burning fire
in a boat they were aboard underway?  I do.  It was NOT my own boat, and it
was not an electrical fire but rather something that had fallen onto an
inadvertently energized and unattended stovetop in an unoccupied
compartment.  I saw the glow and got to it before it spread to the
surrounding fabrics and woods, and the fuel hoses were many feet away.  Had
this fire progressed to fully involve the compartment, I would have had to
decamp the scene in a life raft, and the boat would have been a total loss
LONG before the engine room and its fuel lines were at risk.

I remember Keith describing his involvement with the multi-boat fire in his
marina several years back, and again, it seemed to be a situation not
involving ruptured fuel lines.  If there were some, it was probably well
after the total involvement phase was underway.  Same thing for the North
Carolina marina fire last year.  Some fuel eventually did ignite in that
fire as I recall, but the boats were long gone by then.  Now, if your
concern is with not spreading flaming fuel about a marina, I suggest that
the most fire-proof fuel hose in the world would not have prevented fuel
ignition under that boat shed that night.

The most recent underway fire a boat loss reported by BoatUS was assumed to
be an electrical fire consuming topside areas of the vessel causing
evacuation before the fuel ever became involved - if it ever actually did.
Have you tried to light a bowl of diesel?  I have - takes a long time to
ignite.  Have you had a bilge full of diesel?  I have and lived to tell
about it (OK, yes I was stupid and didn't screw the top of the Racor filter
down tight).

I frequently check the easily accessed back of my breaker panel and run a
socket wrench around the connections to ensure tightness, and my engine room
is protected by two fire/smoke alarms and an automatic Halon system; so I
figure that my first line of defense is strong.

So to my point:  When replacing and/or renewing diesel fuel hose, why should
I concern myself with using other than a USCG-approved "rubber" hose (and
barbed connections) which is under essentially no pressure feeding my
engines' lift pumps?  These lines replaced leaky and corroded OEM copper
tubing.  I hardly think there is going to be a fire down in the bilge area,
free of any major electrical wiring, that is going to cause the breach of my
probably-not-so-fire-proof, not-wire-reinforced, non-JIC-fitting equipped
fuel hoses before the boat is fully involved in flames and I am long gone.

For those who have tried to pull a fuel hose off of a barbed fitting, you
know how tight those things hold, and that's AFTER the hose clamp has been
removed.  So I am happy and safe with that arrangement.  26 years with no
breaks, weeps, leaks or fire ruptures.  As we say down here when something
is sorta obvious. "Ahm just sayin'...."

Don't get me wrong, I do not advocate barbs and clamps in high-pressure
sections of fuel systems.  Even my own engines and generator have steel
piping after the lift pumps for goodness sakes.

Wait a second...  is that you Santa?  And what's that silvery coil of hose
in your hand?  OMG! and Aeroquip end fittings TOO.......?

Rich Gano
Calypso (GB42 Hull # 295)
Panama City area, FL

And speaking of fires and such - read about the seemingly uncombustible Duck.
http://72land-n-sea.blogspot.com/2011/12/fireproof-duck.html

jn

From: Rich Gano richgano@gmail.com
To: Trawlers-and-Trawlering trawlers@lists.trawlering.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:59 PM
Subject: T&T: Fire proof

I may be starting a fire here, but what the heck, it's winter, and I'm bored
with the Christmas thang. 

Rich is correct about  the types of fires and this is supported by the
insurance industry statistics. The majority of fires are electrical in
origin.
I have been involved  with  a couple of minor fires  both involving  stoves
and I had a rewiring job  when the engine harness  burnt due to a short
circuit in a non fused wire.
Despite being on the engine near fuel lines no fuel fed the fire.
A marina I worked at had winter stored boats burn. All of them  were
gasoline fuelled so as the wooden boats burned the gasoline volatized and
vented out the tank vent to feed the external inferno.
Arild

Rich,

A couple of minor comments:

1. You are correct that as long as you put in correct marine-rated hose,
   you are fine from a compliance point of view.

2. Well, almost, The minor "gotcha" is that you have to use the connectors
   specified by the hose manufacturer, or the entire installation is
   non-compliant.

3. You are also correct that hose barbs hold like the devil.

4. However, point (3) makes it a major pain in the a&& to ever take the
   fuel system apart.

5. So, you might want to use some type of angle-face connector, like a JIC
   connector.

6. Whoops, we're in trouble now. See, a JIC connectors is not one of the
   valid connectors specified by the makers of basic rubber marine hose.

The upshot is that if you want to put in good connectors, and you want to
be compliant, you need to use the appropriate hose.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle

Hello:

Now I use Verizon Air card plugged in to laptop for internet access and in
the states (Florida to top of New York) has worked very well.

I'm considering upgrade to Iphone from Verizon.  It gives me applications
such as Active Captain I understand.  It also provides "hotspots," which
everyone I talk to says is like a wifi signal my laptop can use.

My question:  Is the hotspot from Iphone as good as the Verizon air card in
US?  I would appreciate hearing thoughts from anyone with practical
experience.

Thanks

Phil Bolin
Apolonia
43' Motor vessel

One advantage of the USB aircard is the ability to attach an amplifier and
external antenna. This works VERY well in providing connectivity when cell
service is iffy. You can use the USB aircard as a wifi hotspot by connecting
it to a cradlepoint router. Just plug it into the router and turn the router
on. It will create a wifi access point that your notebook or other devices
can connect to.

Just make sure your aircard has an external antenna jack.

My question:  Is the hotspot from Iphone as good as the Verizon air card in
US?  I would appreciate hearing thoughts from anyone with practical
experience.

Thanks

Phil Bolin
Apolonia
43' Motor vessel

Thanks for the thoughts, Scott.  I agree they are minor points for me,
mainly because I don't have to be compliant.  It's not that I wouldn't want
to comply if it made sense, but silly things like 42-inch handrail height
and metal Racor bowls I can't see water in the bottom of the bowls through
make me so non-compliant in other areas that I don't even try.  I have
worked on a lot of other people's boat for them, and the hose and barb
connection (of which I am sure some manufacturer is OK with) is pretty much
the "industry standard" out there.  My long experience on my own boat makes
me confident in the approach.  Yes, when taking the fuel system apart, I
have to cut off the hose and also scar up the barb enough that I have to end
up throwing it away too.  However, I don't mind replacing sections of hose
and barbs if I take the system apart because the only reason I am ever doing
so is to make an improvement which requires a different length of hose
anyway.

Thank goodness I didn't replace a bard fitting with a JIC - going from one
possibly non-compliant fixture to one that is definitely not.  Whew, I am so
relieved.  :)

Rich Gano
Calypso (GB42 Hull # 295)
Panama City area, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Welch [mailto:scott@harwel.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 6:17 PM
To: Rich Gano
Cc: Trawlers-and-Trawlering
Subject: Re: T&T: Fire proof

Rich,

A couple of minor comments:

1. You are correct that as long as you put in correct marine-rated hose,
   you are fine from a compliance point of view.

2. Well, almost, The minor "gotcha" is that you have to use the connectors
   specified by the hose manufacturer, or the entire installation is
   non-compliant.

3. You are also correct that hose barbs hold like the devil.

4. However, point (3) makes it a major pain in the a&& to ever take the
   fuel system apart.

5. So, you might want to use some type of angle-face connector, like a JIC
   connector.

6. Whoops, we're in trouble now. See, a JIC connectors is not one of the
   valid connectors specified by the makers of basic rubber marine hose.

The upshot is that if you want to put in good connectors, and you want to
be compliant, you need to use the appropriate hose.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle