Il 2012-09-19 07:31 Ron Ward ha scritto:
Hi Ron,

Bliley is still in busines and produce the:

Vacuum-Sealed Ultra High Stability quartz crystal
Bliley BG-61 Glass Unit (see the options in the www site)

for more information here the link:http://www.bliley.com/index_088.htm

Luciano
IZ5JHJ
www.timeok.it

--
timeok

HI

Early on Sulzer worked for James Knights, later CTS. I suspect he got at least some of his crystals from there. Rumor has it that he bought  large batches of crystals and monitored them for months / years before using the best of the batch. That's a fine way to make a small number of OCXO's. Not so great for grabbing a replacement part.

HP made their own crystals for quite a while. They also bought parts from just about everybody in the business for various applications. My guess would be that the 106 has an HP made crystal in it.

Bob

On Sep 19, 2012, at 1:31 AM, Ron Ward n6idlron@comcast.net wrote:

Ron;
I think the Wenzel Blue Tops are very good.

Thomas Knox

Hi

For a time standard crystal, the real question is "how much room do you
have?". If volume / power / cost is not a concern, there are a lot of ways
you could go. The market has moved away from the big old beasts mainly
because people simply don't have the room for them any more.

That said, a BVA running on a 5th overtone at about 1 MHz in a 4" or so
glass bottle likely would do pretty well. I suspect you could get a batch
made for around $1M.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Knox
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:47 AM
To: Time-Nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-106 and Sulzer Quartz Crystals

Ron;
I think the Wenzel Blue Tops are very good.

Thomas Knox

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Bob;
Quartz is of course and art so generally speaking the BVA is great very close in, but at 1Hz they do not have much if any better performance. And further out the Wenzel's noise floor is about 20dB below the BVA . Factor in that the Blue Top cost(appr $6000) is about 1/4 of a BVA (appr$25000) and it seems almost cheap. I response to an eariler question I think corning makes most of HP's 10811 era and Wenzel Blanks. I wish I could find a couple Blue Tops at a reasonable price. and while I am at it I wish I could also find a Beach House in New Zealand for cheap.

Thomas Knox

Hi

Piezo and Colorado Crystal made a lot of blanks for HP back in the good old
days. Piezo became Corning and ultimately Vectron. They no longer supply
blanks.
I've never seen an OCXO other than a BVA that will hit 1~2x10^-14 at one
second. If Wenzel has something that's as good as or better than that level
of performance without a BVA I'd be amazed.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Knox
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:38 AM
To: Time-Nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-106 and Sulzer Quartz Crystals

Hi Bob;
Quartz is of course and art so generally speaking the BVA is great very
close in, but at 1Hz they do not have much if any better performance. And
further out the Wenzel's noise floor is about 20dB below the BVA . Factor in
that the Blue Top cost(appr $6000) is about 1/4 of a BVA (appr$25000) and it
seems almost cheap. I response to an eariler question I think corning makes
most of HP's 10811 era and Wenzel Blanks. I wish I could find a couple Blue
Tops at a reasonable price. and while I am at it I wish I could also find a
Beach House in New Zealand for cheap.

Thomas Knox

standard?

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi:
What does BVA stand for?
What is a blue top?
Are HP 10811 "Blue Stripe Replacement" Quarts Oscillators just junk?
What was HP's Blue Stripe Replacement program about?
Thanks,
Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Knox
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:38 AM
To: Time-Nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-106 and Sulzer Quartz Crystals

Hi Bob;
Quartz is of course and art so generally speaking the BVA is great very
close in, but at 1Hz they do not have much if any better performance. And
further out the Wenzel's noise floor is about 20dB below the BVA . Factor in
that the Blue Top cost(appr $6000) is about 1/4 of a BVA (appr$25000) and it
seems almost cheap. I response to an eariler question I think corning makes
most of HP's 10811 era and Wenzel Blanks. I wish I could find a couple Blue
Tops at a reasonable price. and while I am at it I wish I could also find a
Beach House in New Zealand for cheap.

Thomas Knox

standard?

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

The BVA's aren't quite that good (at least, the commercially available
ones).  The best of the Oscilloquartz 8607B units (option 008) are
spec'd for 8x10e-14 from 2 to 30 seconds, and from the reports I've seen
typically measure around 7e-14 at their lowest point.  There are a
couple of papers published about a new 8607C that gets down into the
mid-14s, but still not down to 1e-14.  It doesn't appear to be
commercially available yet, though.

The OSA 8607 has better phase noise at 1 Hz than the Wenzel ULN, but as
Tom noted the Wenzel has a much lower floor.  It's an interesting
example of optimizing for different things -- the ULN is superb at low
PN and especially low floor, but its ADEV and aging aren't anything to
write home about (and as some of us have found, the non-Blue-Top version
is wickedly sensitive to electrical and physical environment).

On the other hand, the 8607 has wonderful ADEV and aging, but the noise
floor isn't that great.  Different requirements, different designs.

John

Bob Camp said the following on 09/19/2012 12:15 PM:

"BVA" is an acronym for a French term that means something like
"improved aging".  It's a unique type of crystal mount that reduces
mechanical stresses, and has been built into OCXOs by Oscilloquartz in
Switzerland.

A "Blue Top" is a Wenzel Associates ultra-low phase noise oscillator.
Wenzel makes a version in a standard small package that we refer to as a
"ULN" (ultra low noise).  The "Blue Top" is that oscillator mounted in a
larger (but still small) enclosure with better thermal control and
electrical isolation.  Both versions have the same noise specifications,
but the Blue Top is a bit easier to work with (and a fair bit more
expensive).

Hope this helps...

John

Ron Ward said the following on 09/19/2012 01:30 PM: