10 GHz Beacon project
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz is -13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap it in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
On my 10GHZ feed I used some material recovered from a Direct TV dish feed.
I figured if it worked at 13 GHz, it was OK for 10GHz :-)
73,
Dave, K4TO
PS -- I have several surplus dish feeds and LNB units, if anyone is
interested. I also have dome of the brick oscillators that can be locked
if you need those.
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 3:01 PM Tom Holmes via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz
is -13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a
plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering
should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap
it in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
I wouldn't mind watching.
I believe polyurethane foam is a good go-to for that frequency range. I
believe there's a general plastics dealer in Canal Winchester. You could
inquire about price or even see if they have some samples available which
might be adequate for a radome.
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 3:01 PM Tom Holmes via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz
is -13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a
plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering
should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap
it in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
What is the max OD of the ant to be covered?
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holmes via mvus-list [mailto:mvus-list@lists.febo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:02 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List'
Cc: Tom Holmes
Subject: [mvus-list] 10 GHz Beacon project
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz is
-13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a
plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering
should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap it
in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
Tom,
My 10 GHz beacon in EN91em is currently off the air as of a few months ago.
It was commissioned in January 2013 with the slot antenna protected by pvc
pipe. See attached images.
73,
Tony K8ZR
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holmes via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:02 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List' mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Tom Holmes tholmes@woh.rr.com
Subject: [mvus-list] 10 GHz Beacon project
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz is
-13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get most of that 5 dB where we
want it. It came with the top end open, but a plate to cover it is included,
along with some brass nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little
drilling and soldering should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap it
in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an
email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
It's WR-90, so nominally 1" x 1/2", but the flange is about 1.75" square. It's about 10" tall, neglecting the height of the
WG to coax adapter. I am thinking we might mount it through a panel with the adapter inside to keep it out of the weather and
close to the TX output port.
I have several fiberglass enclosures that would work nicely to house the whole works. Just need to figure out how much volume
is needed to house the system. If K4TO has some suitable bricks, the space requirement wouldn't be more than maybe one cu-ft.
Mike has a keyer that he has designed, and I have a commercial one that could be used instead. There is also a 1 Watt amp
handy. I looked on DEMI's site for something with more power but didn't find anything, although they did have a link to
another outfit (Q5?) that I need to check out.
Power supply might be a challenge depending on voltages needed, but we can run DC up a coax along with 10 MHz.
Mike has suggested that we start with it on the Englewood water tower since we are planning to put other beacons there, then
if it works out OK, we can move it up to the contest station site. Maybe as a trial run we do a temporary setup on the
parking garage at The Greene some day when the weather is favorable for both being outside and being heard by Gedas over in
Ft. Wayne.
Polyurethane foam sounds good for a radome if it will hold up outside in the sun and such. I think that the slots would need
to be covered with something first. I have heard of PVC pipe being used, but I don't know much about it at 10 GHz. I did send
Gedas a note asking his thoughts as he did some extensive testing on materials about a year ago.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Midkiff via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:18 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List' mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Randy Midkiff ranmid@gmail.com
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 10 GHz Beacon project
What is the max OD of the ant to be covered?
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holmes via mvus-list [mailto:mvus-list@lists.febo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:02 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List'
Cc: Tom Holmes
Subject: [mvus-list] 10 GHz Beacon project
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz is
-13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a
plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering
should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap it
in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
Just FYI, Gedas suggested plexiglass. He says he is going to put a beacon on at his place, and is thinking of building a
3-sided pyramid shape with it. That seems like it would be tricky to seal the seams, though.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holmes via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:50 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List' mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Tom Holmes tholmes@woh.rr.com
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 10 GHz Beacon project
It's WR-90, so nominally 1" x 1/2", but the flange is about 1.75" square. It's about 10" tall, neglecting the height of the
WG to coax adapter. I am thinking we might mount it through a panel with the adapter inside to keep it out of the weather and
close to the TX output port.
I have several fiberglass enclosures that would work nicely to house the whole works. Just need to figure out how much volume
is needed to house the system. If K4TO has some suitable bricks, the space requirement wouldn't be more than maybe one cu-ft.
Mike has a keyer that he has designed, and I have a commercial one that could be used instead. There is also a 1 Watt amp
handy. I looked on DEMI's site for something with more power but didn't find anything, although they did have a link to
another outfit (Q5?) that I need to check out.
Power supply might be a challenge depending on voltages needed, but we can run DC up a coax along with 10 MHz.
Mike has suggested that we start with it on the Englewood water tower since we are planning to put other beacons there, then
if it works out OK, we can move it up to the contest station site. Maybe as a trial run we do a temporary setup on the
parking garage at The Greene some day when the weather is favorable for both being outside and being heard by Gedas over in
Ft. Wayne.
Polyurethane foam sounds good for a radome if it will hold up outside in the sun and such. I think that the slots would need
to be covered with something first. I have heard of PVC pipe being used, but I don't know much about it at 10 GHz. I did send
Gedas a note asking his thoughts as he did some extensive testing on materials about a year ago.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Midkiff via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:18 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List' mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Randy Midkiff ranmid@gmail.com
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 10 GHz Beacon project
What is the max OD of the ant to be covered?
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holmes via mvus-list [mailto:mvus-list@lists.febo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:02 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List'
Cc: Tom Holmes
Subject: [mvus-list] 10 GHz Beacon project
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz is
-13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a
plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering
should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap it
in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
The polyurethane they use in the military (and probably commercial but
that's out of my realm) is a closed cell type that's quite waterproof.
There's usually a thin PE coating or cover just to make sure. The stuff
made for radomes is fairly pricey but sometimes distributors will have
sample sheets a couple of feet in size that would work well for a small
beacon.
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 3:49 PM Tom Holmes via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
It's WR-90, so nominally 1" x 1/2", but the flange is about 1.75" square.
It's about 10" tall, neglecting the height of the
WG to coax adapter. I am thinking we might mount it through a panel with
the adapter inside to keep it out of the weather and
close to the TX output port.
I have several fiberglass enclosures that would work nicely to house the
whole works. Just need to figure out how much volume
is needed to house the system. If K4TO has some suitable bricks, the space
requirement wouldn't be more than maybe one cu-ft.
Mike has a keyer that he has designed, and I have a commercial one that
could be used instead. There is also a 1 Watt amp
handy. I looked on DEMI's site for something with more power but didn't
find anything, although they did have a link to
another outfit (Q5?) that I need to check out.
Power supply might be a challenge depending on voltages needed, but we can
run DC up a coax along with 10 MHz.
Mike has suggested that we start with it on the Englewood water tower
since we are planning to put other beacons there, then
if it works out OK, we can move it up to the contest station site. Maybe
as a trial run we do a temporary setup on the
parking garage at The Greene some day when the weather is favorable for
both being outside and being heard by Gedas over in
Ft. Wayne.
Polyurethane foam sounds good for a radome if it will hold up outside in
the sun and such. I think that the slots would need
to be covered with something first. I have heard of PVC pipe being used,
but I don't know much about it at 10 GHz. I did send
Gedas a note asking his thoughts as he did some extensive testing on
materials about a year ago.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Midkiff via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:18 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List' mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Randy Midkiff ranmid@gmail.com
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 10 GHz Beacon project
What is the max OD of the ant to be covered?
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holmes via mvus-list [mailto:mvus-list@lists.febo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:02 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List'
Cc: Tom Holmes
Subject: [mvus-list] 10 GHz Beacon project
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz
is
-13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a
plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering
should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap it
in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
A useful white paper on various materials and dielectric constant vs loss
tangent info.
https://www.generalplastics.com/technical-papers/dielectric-materials-use-radomes
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:05 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
The polyurethane they use in the military (and probably commercial but
that's out of my realm) is a closed cell type that's quite waterproof.
There's usually a thin PE coating or cover just to make sure. The stuff
made for radomes is fairly pricey but sometimes distributors will have
sample sheets a couple of feet in size that would work well for a small
beacon.
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 3:49 PM Tom Holmes via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
It's WR-90, so nominally 1" x 1/2", but the flange is about 1.75"
square. It's about 10" tall, neglecting the height of the
WG to coax adapter. I am thinking we might mount it through a panel with
the adapter inside to keep it out of the weather and
close to the TX output port.
I have several fiberglass enclosures that would work nicely to house the
whole works. Just need to figure out how much volume
is needed to house the system. If K4TO has some suitable bricks, the
space requirement wouldn't be more than maybe one cu-ft.
Mike has a keyer that he has designed, and I have a commercial one that
could be used instead. There is also a 1 Watt amp
handy. I looked on DEMI's site for something with more power but didn't
find anything, although they did have a link to
another outfit (Q5?) that I need to check out.
Power supply might be a challenge depending on voltages needed, but we
can run DC up a coax along with 10 MHz.
Mike has suggested that we start with it on the Englewood water tower
since we are planning to put other beacons there, then
if it works out OK, we can move it up to the contest station site. Maybe
as a trial run we do a temporary setup on the
parking garage at The Greene some day when the weather is favorable for
both being outside and being heard by Gedas over in
Ft. Wayne.
Polyurethane foam sounds good for a radome if it will hold up outside in
the sun and such. I think that the slots would need
to be covered with something first. I have heard of PVC pipe being used,
but I don't know much about it at 10 GHz. I did send
Gedas a note asking his thoughts as he did some extensive testing on
materials about a year ago.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Midkiff via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:18 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List' mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Randy Midkiff ranmid@gmail.com
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 10 GHz Beacon project
What is the max OD of the ant to be covered?
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holmes via mvus-list [mailto:mvus-list@lists.febo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:02 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List'
Cc: Tom Holmes
Subject: [mvus-list] 10 GHz Beacon project
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368 GHz
is
-13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a
plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering
should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap
it
in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
--
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
From Amazon I found 2" diameter Acrylic in lengths from 12 to 48 inches.
Comments indicate this is a little thin at 1/16". Thinner than I would
want so this probably won't work. Acrylic should be ok with sunlight for a
few years.
Search on "Source One Deluxe Clear Acrylic Tube 2 Inches Thick" by
Sourceone.org. They say "thick" but they mean diameter.
For other comments, the reason I like Hoke Rd for a location is a clear
shot to the horizon in all directions without any trees. While the contest
site is higher that won't help when losing several DBs from trees.
Testing from the top floor of the north parking garage at the Greene would
be a good idea. I can mount it on the trailer hitch mount I use for my
2-foot 10 GHz dish early some morning. Leave it sit there for a few hours
and see if
Gedes can hear it.
Mike
W8RKO
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:07 PM Trevor Clarke via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
A useful white paper on various materials and dielectric constant vs loss
tangent info.
https://www.generalplastics.com/technical-papers/dielectric-materials-use-radomes
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:05 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
The polyurethane they use in the military (and probably commercial but
that's out of my realm) is a closed cell type that's quite waterproof.
There's usually a thin PE coating or cover just to make sure. The stuff
made for radomes is fairly pricey but sometimes distributors will have
sample sheets a couple of feet in size that would work well for a small
beacon.
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 3:49 PM Tom Holmes via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
It's WR-90, so nominally 1" x 1/2", but the flange is about 1.75"
square. It's about 10" tall, neglecting the height of the
WG to coax adapter. I am thinking we might mount it through a panel with
the adapter inside to keep it out of the weather and
close to the TX output port.
I have several fiberglass enclosures that would work nicely to house the
whole works. Just need to figure out how much volume
is needed to house the system. If K4TO has some suitable bricks, the
space requirement wouldn't be more than maybe one cu-ft.
Mike has a keyer that he has designed, and I have a commercial one that
could be used instead. There is also a 1 Watt amp
handy. I looked on DEMI's site for something with more power but didn't
find anything, although they did have a link to
another outfit (Q5?) that I need to check out.
Power supply might be a challenge depending on voltages needed, but we
can run DC up a coax along with 10 MHz.
Mike has suggested that we start with it on the Englewood water tower
since we are planning to put other beacons there, then
if it works out OK, we can move it up to the contest station site. Maybe
as a trial run we do a temporary setup on the
parking garage at The Greene some day when the weather is favorable for
both being outside and being heard by Gedas over in
Ft. Wayne.
Polyurethane foam sounds good for a radome if it will hold up outside in
the sun and such. I think that the slots would need
to be covered with something first. I have heard of PVC pipe being used,
but I don't know much about it at 10 GHz. I did send
Gedas a note asking his thoughts as he did some extensive testing on
materials about a year ago.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Midkiff via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:18 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List' mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Randy Midkiff ranmid@gmail.com
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 10 GHz Beacon project
What is the max OD of the ant to be covered?
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holmes via mvus-list [mailto:mvus-list@lists.febo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 3:02 PM
To: 'Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List'
Cc: Tom Holmes
Subject: [mvus-list] 10 GHz Beacon project
I know have in my possession a 12 slot waveguide antenna for the beacon
project. It has a coax to WG adapter on the bottom.
As is, the S11 dip is -18 dB at about 10.000 GHz, while S11 at 10.368
GHz
is
-13 dB. OK but it could probably be tuned to get
most of that 5 dB where we want it. It came with the top end open, but a
plate to cover it is included, along with some brass
nuts and screws for a tuning adjustment. A little drilling and soldering
should take care of that, then I can tune it. Anyone
want to watch? Or supervise?
Will have to figure out a good material for a radome, or maybe just wrap
it
in Capton tape.
Suggestions?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
--
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
--
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com