Hi Steve, Guess you witnesed a life and death situation that nature usually hides so well from our eyes. This is not so unusual though. Prey can often become the killer, and killers can become prey. The key is - both must stay on their regular natural track of things. When one gets just a little out of place, the other takes advantage of it. When a Sharpie surprises birds at the feeder, the sick, wounded, or just plain not with it bird is the most likely taken, culled out of the flock for the good of that species overall. On the other side of the coin, I once witnessed a wounded Im Coopers hawk, trying to get at my chickens from the ground, attacked by a flock of Crows - killed, and then, not to waste - eaten. As cruel as we might think it, this is survival, or not, in the daily workings of nature. I also have read in Owls, the larger species will often kill smaller ones when given a chance. Guess we can sum all this up by saying - nothing in nature is ever completely safe from predation of some kind. But the longer they can stay healthy and alert, the better chance they will live for another day. Question: Is the Cow a predator of Grass? Any thoughts on this one? Paul Carrier

Hi Folks I found the Gull-Merganser situation quite interesting. My guess was that the gull was after fish but things got out of hand. Paul's Comments reminded me of an dark humorous event I was told about. It is in the literature but I don't know were. Apparently a Great Black-backed Gull (I think it was the species) captured and swallowed a mole whole and alive. The mole then proceeded to burrow out of the gull. The gull went into convulsions and finally died and I presume the mole escaped! A cow does not kill the the grass but crops the top of it. But, finches are seed predators. Dennis Varza Fairfield On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Carrier Graphics wrote: > Hi Steve, > > Guess you witnesed a life and death situation that nature usually > hides > so well from our eyes. > > This is not so unusual though. Prey can often become the killer, and > killers can become prey. The key is - both must stay on their regular > natural track of things. When one gets just a little out of place, the > other takes advantage of it. > When a Sharpie surprises birds at the feeder, the sick, wounded, or > just > plain not with it bird is the most likely taken, culled out of the > flock > for the good of that species overall. > > On the other side of the coin, I once witnessed a wounded Im Coopers > hawk, trying to get at my chickens from the ground, attacked by a > flock > of Crows - killed, and then, not to waste - eaten. As cruel as we > might > think it, this is survival, or not, in the daily workings of nature. > > I also have read in Owls, the larger species will often kill smaller > ones when given a chance. Guess we can sum all this up by saying - > nothing in nature is ever completely safe from predation of some kind. > But the longer they can stay healthy and alert, the better chance they > will live for another day. > > Question: Is the Cow a predator of Grass? Any thoughts on this one? > > Paul Carrier > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association > (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. > For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/ > mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org

You know, about it getting out of hand, I was wondering the same thing. I've seen gulls have "spats" with mergansers over fish. Is that story about the mole (linked by Sarah in another message) for real? Maybe an urban legend? :-| Dennis - you have a point, cows don't kill the grass. Pam Holden Colchester ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Varza" <dennisvz@optonline.net> To: "Carrier Graphics" <carriergraphics@sbcglobal.net>; "Posting Bird List" <ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Screech Owl - > Hi Folks > > I found the Gull-Merganser situation quite interesting. My guess was > that the gull was after fish but things got out of hand. > > Paul's Comments reminded me of an dark humorous event I was told > about. It is in the literature but I don't know were. > > Apparently a Great Black-backed Gull (I think it was the species) > captured and swallowed a mole whole and alive. The mole then > proceeded to burrow out of the gull. The gull went into convulsions > and finally died and I presume the mole escaped! > > A cow does not kill the the grass but crops the top of it. But, > finches are seed predators. > > Dennis Varza > Fairfield > > > On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Carrier Graphics wrote: > >> Hi Steve, >> >> Guess you witnesed a life and death situation that nature usually >> hides >> so well from our eyes. >> >> This is not so unusual though. Prey can often become the killer, and >> killers can become prey. The key is - both must stay on their regular >> natural track of things. When one gets just a little out of place, the >> other takes advantage of it. >> When a Sharpie surprises birds at the feeder, the sick, wounded, or >> just >> plain not with it bird is the most likely taken, culled out of the >> flock >> for the good of that species overall. >> >> On the other side of the coin, I once witnessed a wounded Im Coopers >> hawk, trying to get at my chickens from the ground, attacked by a >> flock >> of Crows - killed, and then, not to waste - eaten. As cruel as we >> might >> think it, this is survival, or not, in the daily workings of nature. >> >> I also have read in Owls, the larger species will often kill smaller >> ones when given a chance. Guess we can sum all this up by saying - >> nothing in nature is ever completely safe from predation of some kind. >> But the longer they can stay healthy and alert, the better chance they >> will live for another day. >> >> Question: Is the Cow a predator of Grass? Any thoughts on this one? >> >> Paul Carrier >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association >> (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. >> For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/ >> mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org > > > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) > for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. > For subscription information visit > http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org >

                                                               Bill Yule

Hi all. been awhile since I've posted but just to chime in here....last summer I wrote to this list about witnessing a huge "food spat" in which we watched a GBBG apparently trying to drown a DC Cormorant...this aggression went on for 10 minutes with the gull on top and the cormorant beneath with occational "rolls"... like a wrestling move where one tries to turn the tables on the other....in the end the REAL source of this struggle revealed itself...each bird was engorged with about a half a foot of and huge American eel...picture the old Disney film "Lady and the Tramp" in the spagetti scene...but the interesting thing was that the three of us who witnessed this were convinced that this was unprovoked GBBG aggression until the birds finally popped up to reveal that they were both attached to a food item... Bill Yule p.s.holden@comcast.net wrote: You know, about it getting out of hand, I was wondering the same thing. I've seen gulls have "spats" with mergansers over fish. Is that story about the mole (linked by Sarah in another message) for real? Maybe an urban legend? :-| Dennis - you have a point, cows don't kill the grass. Pam Holden Colchester ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Varza" To: "Carrier Graphics" ; "Posting Bird List" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Screech Owl - > Hi Folks > > I found the Gull-Merganser situation quite interesting. My guess was > that the gull was after fish but things got out of hand. > > Paul's Comments reminded me of an dark humorous event I was told > about. It is in the literature but I don't know were. > > Apparently a Great Black-backed Gull (I think it was the species) > captured and swallowed a mole whole and alive. The mole then > proceeded to burrow out of the gull. The gull went into convulsions > and finally died and I presume the mole escaped! > > A cow does not kill the the grass but crops the top of it. But, > finches are seed predators. > > Dennis Varza > Fairfield > > > On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Carrier Graphics wrote: > >> Hi Steve, >> >> Guess you witnesed a life and death situation that nature usually >> hides >> so well from our eyes. >> >> This is not so unusual though. Prey can often become the killer, and >> killers can become prey. The key is - both must stay on their regular >> natural track of things. When one gets just a little out of place, the >> other takes advantage of it. >> When a Sharpie surprises birds at the feeder, the sick, wounded, or >> just >> plain not with it bird is the most likely taken, culled out of the >> flock >> for the good of that species overall. >> >> On the other side of the coin, I once witnessed a wounded Im Coopers >> hawk, trying to get at my chickens from the ground, attacked by a >> flock >> of Crows - killed, and then, not to waste - eaten. As cruel as we >> might >> think it, this is survival, or not, in the daily workings of nature. >> >> I also have read in Owls, the larger species will often kill smaller >> ones when given a chance. Guess we can sum all this up by saying - >> nothing in nature is ever completely safe from predation of some kind. >> But the longer they can stay healthy and alert, the better chance they >> will live for another day. >> >> Question: Is the Cow a predator of Grass? Any thoughts on this one? >> >> Paul Carrier >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association >> (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. >> For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/ >> mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org > > > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) > for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. > For subscription information visit > http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org > _______________________________________________ This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org "For those who hunger after the earthly excrescences called mushrooms." --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Hi Pam et al The Mole story is absolutely true, told to me by a very reliable source, many years ago. It amazed me that Sarah was able to find the citation and so quickly. For those who did not read it, it was a Herring Gull not a Great Black-backed Gull. Also, the mole died as well as the gull. In terms of Gulls and Mergansers often time I see GBBG's sitting on the water in the vicinity of feeding Mergansers. Stealing food from others is not new or unusual. Grazing Cattle In most plants the growing area is at the tip of the plant (apical meristam). Removing the tip stops growth or induces growth from the sides. In grass, the growing area is at the base of the leaves so the tips can be removed and they still keep growing (hence lawnmowers) In general it seems that grasses need grazing and/or fire to maintain productivity. There is a vast literature on grazing and productivity of many species. In terms of ecology, biologists consider predation the death of an individual. Since cows do not kill their prey they are not predators. If consuming leaves and seeds helps the plants productivity and aids in dispersal they are neither parasites but mutualists. Here is another story from the same person who told me the mole story. I think it was him or someone he knew: This was in Louisiana. A Northern Harrier attacked an American Coot. and the coot drowned the Harrier! Dennis Fairfield On Jan 4, 2008, at 9:35 AM, p.s.holden@comcast.net wrote: > You know, about it getting out of hand, I was wondering the same > thing. > I've seen gulls have "spats" with mergansers over fish. > > Is that story about the mole (linked by Sarah in another message) > for real? > Maybe an urban legend? :-| > > Dennis - you have a point, cows don't kill the grass. > > Pam Holden > Colchester > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Varza" <dennisvz@optonline.net> > To: "Carrier Graphics" <carriergraphics@sbcglobal.net>; "Posting > Bird List" > <ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org> > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:03 PM > Subject: Re: [CT Birds] Screech Owl - > > >> Hi Folks >> >> I found the Gull-Merganser situation quite interesting. My guess was >> that the gull was after fish but things got out of hand. >> >> Paul's Comments reminded me of an dark humorous event I was told >> about. It is in the literature but I don't know were. >> >> Apparently a Great Black-backed Gull (I think it was the species) >> captured and swallowed a mole whole and alive. The mole then >> proceeded to burrow out of the gull. The gull went into convulsions >> and finally died and I presume the mole escaped! >> >> A cow does not kill the the grass but crops the top of it. But, >> finches are seed predators. >> >> Dennis Varza >> Fairfield >> >> >> On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Carrier Graphics wrote: >> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> Guess you witnesed a life and death situation that nature usually >>> hides >>> so well from our eyes. >>> >>> This is not so unusual though. Prey can often become the >>> killer, and >>> killers can become prey. The key is - both must stay on their >>> regular >>> natural track of things. When one gets just a little out of >>> place, the >>> other takes advantage of it. >>> When a Sharpie surprises birds at the feeder, the sick, wounded, or >>> just >>> plain not with it bird is the most likely taken, culled out of the >>> flock >>> for the good of that species overall. >>> >>> On the other side of the coin, I once witnessed a wounded Im Coopers >>> hawk, trying to get at my chickens from the ground, attacked by a >>> flock >>> of Crows - killed, and then, not to waste - eaten. As cruel as we >>> might >>> think it, this is survival, or not, in the daily workings of nature. >>> >>> I also have read in Owls, the larger species will often kill smaller >>> ones when given a chance. Guess we can sum all this up by saying - >>> nothing in nature is ever completely safe from predation of some >>> kind. >>> But the longer they can stay healthy and alert, the better chance >>> they >>> will live for another day. >>> >>> Question: Is the Cow a predator of Grass? Any thoughts on this one? >>> >>> Paul Carrier >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association >>> (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. >>> For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/ >>> mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological >> Association (COA) >> for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. >> For subscription information visit >> http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association > (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut. > For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/ > mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org