Alder Flycatchers are typically in the northern part (mostly NW corner)
of the state in shrubby freshwater wetland or riparian areas.  One of
the best places to find them is at White Memorial Foundation (the
cranberry bog as I recall).  I would be really surprised to find one at
Hammonasset in nesting season.

"This species occupies areas with an interspersion of low vegetation
including shrubs with trees over 8 feet high (I don't think they would
occur with very tall trees) in the vicinity of streams or other open
water.  The nest is characteristically...not over water, less than three
feet off the ground in thickets of hawthorn, spiraea, buttonbush, or
alder."

On the call of Alder Flycatcher, to me the 'song' is much more
mechanical sounding than that of Willow Flycatcher, even their mimics of
Alder 'songs'.  They typical Willow 'song' sounds to me like a sneeze
"ah-choo", but as mentioned, they do mimic the alder.  To me the tone
remains similar though, as if they are playing the alder 'song' on the
willow instrument.  For some reason, the alder 'song' reminds me of
those instruments where you use a metal stick to rub against a ridged
surface (popular in elementary school music classes).  I think they're
called a guiro
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Modern_fibreglass_guiro.jpg

Perhaps others won't find that as useful as I do.

Re Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrows.  You can sometimes find them close
enough in to get a decent binocular look near the pools at the entrance
(east entrance) to the Meigs' Point nature center parking lot.  Also,
the town boat launch in Guilford used to be the best place to find them
close in, but I haven't had as much luck there recently.

In migration, they are reasonably abundant in the tall spartina on the
landward side of barrier beaches such as Long Beach, Milford Point or
Sandy Point and you can even find them at Sandy Point in the summer,
though it is a safe bet that they don't nest there.  They don't often
pop up though, so you have to keep an eye out for any movement in the
grass and have some patience for them to show themselves.

Patrick Comins, Meriden.

-----Original Message-----
From: ctbirds-bounces@lists.ctbirding.org
[mailto:ctbirds-bounces@lists.ctbirding.org] On Behalf Of Grace
Profatilov
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:15 PM
To: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] saltmarsh sparrow and alder flycather

I don't have a spotting scope, but I'll just try to be patient and keep
looking. I saw a gazillion song sparrows but surely a saltmarsh sparrow
will
appear for me one of these days.

As for the Alder, I'm certain then that I was wrong. I'm still
struggling
with these fly catchers. I had a good long look at it, but had to go by
song
and I'm still not too good with songs either. But a Willow Flycatcher is
new
for my list too so I'll take that instead!

BTW, what is the correct habitat for the Alders?

Thanks,
Grace Profatilov
Hamden

This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association
(COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
For subscription information visit
http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org

I've been reading these postings with great interest wondering if I had misidentified a bird over the last two years. I have had an Alder Flycatcher for the last two years in a power line cut adjacent to Veteran's Park in Watertown. In fact, He was singing away yesterday at noon and I did not hear a "Willow" FC song. The bird is definitely in the lower section which is wetlands.

If anyone is interested - the power line cut is accessible from Veteran's Park off of Nova Scotia road a number of ways. However, the easiest entrance is the trail across from the basketball courts. You get to the courts via the loop road. The courts will be on you left near the completion of the loop. The trail across the road leads directly to the open area. The park opens officially at 6:30am but I usually get in by 6:15 before work. This has been a pretty good birding spot over the last 7 years I've worked in the area. Along with many expected species, Brown thrashers are also there all season. There is a pond and some wooded trails also.

Bill Sweet

"COMINS, Patrick" PCOMINS@audubon.org wrote:

Alder Flycatchers are typically in the northern part (mostly NW corner)
of the state in shrubby freshwater wetland or riparian areas. One of
the best places to find them is at White Memorial Foundation (the
cranberry bog as I recall). I would be really surprised to find one at
Hammonasset in nesting season.

"This species occupies areas with an interspersion of low vegetation
including shrubs with trees over 8 feet high (I don't think they would
occur with very tall trees) in the vicinity of streams or other open
water. The nest is characteristically...not over water, less than three
feet off the ground in thickets of hawthorn, spiraea, buttonbush, or
alder."

On the call of Alder Flycatcher, to me the 'song' is much more
mechanical sounding than that of Willow Flycatcher, even their mimics of
Alder 'songs'. They typical Willow 'song' sounds to me like a sneeze
"ah-choo", but as mentioned, they do mimic the alder. To me the tone
remains similar though, as if they are playing the alder 'song' on the
willow instrument. For some reason, the alder 'song' reminds me of
those instruments where you use a metal stick to rub against a ridged
surface (popular in elementary school music classes). I think they're
called a guiro
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Modern_fibreglass_guiro.jpg

Perhaps others won't find that as useful as I do.

Re Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrows. You can sometimes find them close
enough in to get a decent binocular look near the pools at the entrance
(east entrance) to the Meigs' Point nature center parking lot. Also,
the town boat launch in Guilford used to be the best place to find them
close in, but I haven't had as much luck there recently.

In migration, they are reasonably abundant in the tall spartina on the
landward side of barrier beaches such as Long Beach, Milford Point or
Sandy Point and you can even find them at Sandy Point in the summer,
though it is a safe bet that they don't nest there. They don't often
pop up though, so you have to keep an eye out for any movement in the
grass and have some patience for them to show themselves.

Patrick Comins, Meriden.

-----Original Message-----
From: ctbirds-bounces@lists.ctbirding.org
[mailto:ctbirds-bounces@lists.ctbirding.org] On Behalf Of Grace
Profatilov
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:15 PM
To: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] saltmarsh sparrow and alder flycather

I don't have a spotting scope, but I'll just try to be patient and keep
looking. I saw a gazillion song sparrows but surely a saltmarsh sparrow
will
appear for me one of these days.

As for the Alder, I'm certain then that I was wrong. I'm still
struggling
with these fly catchers. I had a good long look at it, but had to go by
song
and I'm still not too good with songs either. But a Willow Flycatcher is
new
for my list too so I'll take that instead!

BTW, what is the correct habitat for the Alders?

Thanks,
Grace Profatilov
Hamden

This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association
(COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
For subscription information visit
http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org

This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org

Thanks to Bill Sweet for raising the question about an Empidonax he's heard
singing and for steering me back to Veterans Park in Watertown. It's a place
I've visited only briefly even though it's 15 minutes from my house.

First the flycathcer. Bill said he'd identified it as Alder by voice but had
some second thoughts after discussion on this list about some ID pitfalls. I
went out this morning and heard the bird singing. Bottom line: this remains
a puzzling pair of "sibling species" (so closely related that they were for
many years considered a single species known as Traill's Flycather). I heard
the bird for the better part of a half-hour and during that time it sang
what seemed a fairly typical Alder Flycatcher song with no really obvious
FITZ-bew Willow renditions. However, it was in very typical Willow
Flycatcher habitat - a dry portion of a powerline cut dominated by Autumn
Olive and Red-Cedar. Willow Flycatchers love this sort of spot, and the
location is south (although not by a lot) of the known and apparently fairly
stable breeding zone for Alder.

Tough one. I tend to think Willow singing an atypical song but that's a bit
of a guess. I thought the song might be more emphatic on the first syllable
than typical of Alder, but that's a real hair-splitter. Basically it sounded
pretty good for Alder.

Regarding Veterans Park, the powerline has a nice array of early
successional species - Prairie Warbler, Field Sparrow, Eastern Towhee,
Indigo Bunting - and I was surprised to find in the wooded area in addition
to the expected Veerys and Wood Thrush, a singing Hermit Thrush.

Greg Hanisek
Waterbury

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Sweet" w.sweet@sbcglobal.net
To: "COMINS, Patrick" PCOMINS@audubon.org; ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] alder flycather and saltmarsh

At the risk of sounding completely wrong about these two species, I'd like to offer some comment that could help confirm this ID as Alder.

My experience with Alders and Willows in CT is that Willows prefer much moister habitat than Alders.  Although I have heard Willow Flycatchers in a whole range of habitat that includes moist upland shrubby areas as well as wet swampy areas (true wetland, wooded wetland) moist meadows or field edges, and even lakeshores, generally I find them in these wetter habitats more often than I find Alders. The habitat described by Greg sounds to me like quintessential Alder habitat.  In Maine, for example, I would regularly find them along railroad bed cuts with lots of shrubbery on both sides.  The last one I had in CT was up in Sharon this May, and it was in one of these hybrid areas:  very shrubby, sloping, not too far from water, but not inundated by any means.  It was also near the base of a ridge.  Willows in the same area, on the other hand, were in wetter, inundated areas with dwarf shrubs and trees with flatwater (i.e. White Memorial Woods).

So is this way off base, or does this make any sense to anyone?  The drier habitat to me sounds very suitable to Alder in the case in question.

Ross

Greg Hanisek ghanisek@rep-am.com wrote:
Thanks to Bill Sweet for raising the question about an Empidonax he's heard
singing and for steering me back to Veterans Park in Watertown. It's a place
I've visited only briefly even though it's 15 minutes from my house.

First the flycathcer. Bill said he'd identified it as Alder by voice but had
some second thoughts after discussion on this list about some ID pitfalls. I
went out this morning and heard the bird singing. Bottom line: this remains
a puzzling pair of "sibling species" (so closely related that they were for
many years considered a single species known as Traill's Flycather). I heard
the bird for the better part of a half-hour and during that time it sang
what seemed a fairly typical Alder Flycatcher song with no really obvious
FITZ-bew Willow renditions. However, it was in very typical Willow
Flycatcher habitat - a dry portion of a powerline cut dominated by Autumn
Olive and Red-Cedar. Willow Flycatchers love this sort of spot, and the
location is south (although not by a lot) of the known and apparently fairly
stable breeding zone for Alder.

Tough one. I tend to think Willow singing an atypical song but that's a bit
of a guess. I thought the song might be more emphatic on the first syllable
than typical of Alder, but that's a real hair-splitter. Basically it sounded
pretty good for Alder.

Regarding Veterans Park, the powerline has a nice array of early
successional species - Prairie Warbler, Field Sparrow, Eastern Towhee,
Indigo Bunting - and I was surprised to find in the wooded area in addition
to the expected Veerys and Wood Thrush, a singing Hermit Thrush.

Greg Hanisek
Waterbury

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Sweet"
To: "COMINS, Patrick"
;
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] alder flycather and saltmarsh

wrote:

This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
For subscription information visit http://lists.ctbirding.org/mailman/listinfo/ctbirds_lists.ctbirding.org

Ross Geredien
Good Migrations Photography
www.goodmigrationsphoto.com
1-610-850-5035

Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.

This is a very good discussion and one that needs to be had periodically.  I
have on more than one occasion heard what I believed was a typical Alder
Flycatcher singing at dawn only to have the same bird from the same perch
start singing a perfectly good Willow song after an hour or so of daylight.
Both can and do sing songs very similar to each other. Willow tends to use
more varied habitat than Alder.  I have never encountered a real Alder
outside of what would be considered typical Alder habitat.  I have also
noticed (or at least I think this is what I think) that coastal Willow
Flycatchers seem to sing a more raspy Fitz-pew than inland birds.  I do not
know if this is true always or even a little bit but while doing coastal
surveys last summer, I had occasion to hear about 15 territorial Willows
every few days.  To my ear they were different than the ones I hear inland.
And speaking of the coast,  it was on just a weather system as we are now
enjoying last July 1 that I encountered the Brown-chested Martin in Groton.
As my friend Frank Mantlik often says  "Keep your eyes on the skies!"

Mark
Mark S.Szantyr
80 Bicknell Road
Apt. 9
Ashford, CT 06278
USA

Birddog55@Charter.net
860-487-9766
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Hanisek" ghanisek@rep-am.com
To: "William Sweet" w.sweet@sbcglobal.net
Cc: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:11 PM
Subject: [CT Birds] alder flycather

Yes, an excellent discussion. And definitely some difficult problems here.
In regards to Ross's question, the dry habitats I described from Watertown
are typically used by Willow Flycatcher but as Mark by noted, Willow uses
quite an array of habitats, both wet and dry. Willow is widespread in Conn.
and occurs in all kinds of scrubby habitats. Alder on the other had has a
more restricted range, primarily in the northwest, and in my experience
favors mainly wetland habitats. Problems arise because of the song overlap
that's been discussed on this thread. There are times when it may be
difficult to decide which species one is hearing. The early-morning Alder
song of the Willow, which Mark and I both have referred to, definitely
causes confusion. Usually these birds revert to singing a more typical
Willow song, but it's impossible to say how much overlap occurs at times.

Mark's idea that Willows near the coast (where there are no Alders) sing
differently is interesting. One could surmise interspecific influence in
areas farther north where they both occur.

restricted in habitat type and don't typically use the dry Autumn Olive etc
locations that Willows readily inhabit. I say this in the context of Conn
(and former years in NJ). The situation may be much different in Maine and
other places farther north where Alder is more widespread.

Regardig habitat, Birds of North America Online says of Alder, "Described as
a bird of wet thickets." And it notes, "Other Empidonax flycatchers show
preferences for other types of habitats: Willow Flycatcher found more in dry
thickets;..."

Greg Hanisek
Waterbury

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Szantyr" birddog55@Charter.net
To: "Greg Hanisek" ghanisek@rep-am.com; ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] alder flycather

I agree with Greg.  In fact for alder, not just any wetland habitat but
those with a substantial amount of small woody growth  (Alders?) intermixed
with high bush shrubs and dense understory usually nearly choking out the
water aspect of the cover.  Also as Greg noted, I have only seen 1 Alder in
the northeastern part of the state, that was a bird in May in East Killingly
at the north end of Middle Reservoir.

Mark
Mark S.Szantyr
80 Bicknell Road
Apt. 9
Ashford, CT 06278
USA

Birddog55@Charter.net
860-487-9766
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Hanisek" ghanisek@rep-am.com
To: "Mark Szantyr" birddog55@Charter.net
Cc: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] alder flycather

In regard to habitat and species in general, I find it
fascinating how animals or birds will exploit somewhat
atypical habitat on the edges of their ranges.  I
don't know too much about this topic, but I suspect
that there is some limiting factor or factors needed
by a species that must be met for individuals clinging
to range edges that may cause them to seek habitat
slightly different (but containing the factor or
factors) from those individuals living comfortably
within the middle of their range.  Another variable
would probably be that individuals on "the edge" have
a different genetic make-up that allows them to better
exploit a slightly different habitat and will provide
the species with an evolutionary edge when changes
occur.

Glenn Williams
Mystic, CT

--- Greg Hanisek ghanisek@rep-am.com wrote:

=== message truncated ===

Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
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There is a really decent account of the habitats in Connecticut for both
Willow and Alder Flycatchers in the Connecticut Breeeding Bird Atlas.

Mark

Mark S.Szantyr
80 Bicknell Road
Apt. 9
Ashford, CT 06278
USA

Birddog55@Charter.net
860-487-9766
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Szantyr" birddog55@Charter.net
To: "Greg Hanisek" ghanisek@rep-am.com; ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] alder flycather

Willow Flycatchers in Connecticut are nearer to the northern edge of the
species range and Alder Flycatchers in Connecticut are nearer to the
southern edge of that species range, by nearly the same amount...this is
pretty interesting actually.

Mark

Mark S.Szantyr
80 Bicknell Road
Apt. 9
Ashford, CT 06278
USA

Birddog55@Charter.net
860-487-9766
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Williams" gswilliams9@yahoo.com
To: ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] alder flycather