Motorola Oncore UT+ firmware upgrade & backup power questions
Hi all,
After a few years of using a Garmin GPS 18x LVC for timekeeping, my
budget now allows for some upgrades and I had a small field day on eBay:
I acquired a Trimble Thunderbolt, two Trimble Resolution Ts, and two
Motorola Oncore UT+s (seconds purchased for spares and testing).
The documentation for the Trimbles is clear, but I had several questions
regarding the Oncores that I was unable to find clear answers to online.
I would be very much obliged if the folks here might be able to help.
- Is it possible to upgrade the firmware on the Oncore UT+? If so,
where can one acquire the latest firmware (3.2, I believe) files and how
would go one about installing it? Is this something WinOncore can do? I
ask because the receivers on eBay are of varying vintage and may not be
fully upgraded.
Since Motorola exited the GPS business a relatively long time ago,
firmware updates and directions have proven difficult (impossible so
far) for me to find.
- The two Oncores I purchased were not factory-equipped with a
rechargeable battery. The user guide says that one can apply "Externally
applied backup power (< +5V)" to pin #1 in order to maintain data in RAM
in case the main power is interrupted.
Can one use a common non-rechargeable coin-cell battery like a CR2032 to
provide this backup power, or does it need to be a rechargeable battery?
Will a CR2032 or the Oncore itself be damaged if such a cell is used?
- Tom says at
http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2012-October/034001.html that
in addition to being an input for external backup power, pin #1 on the
Oncore provides current-limited 5V for battery/supercapacitor charging.
Is this true for Oncore receivers that were not factory-equipped with a
rechargeable battery? If true, what is the maximum current that can be
safely supplied by the pin? As above, is it safe to use a
non-rechargeable battery like a CR2032?
If pin #1 can supply power and I wanted to charge a supercapacitor from
that pin, would I also need to include a current-limiting resistor to
prevent the Oncore from sourcing too much current?
I could find nothing in the user guide that says that pin #1 can be used
for charging a battery.
http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/ShopTalk/9backup_battery_considerations.pdf
is unclear on whether or not pin #1 can be used for charging batteries,
or if it's safe to use non-rechargeable cells like a CR2032 coin-cell
battery.
4. The user manual and the battery backup considerations document says
that the Oncore UT+ draws 5-100 uA (15uA typical) from the backup power
source. Is this a constant draw, even when the main 5V power is being
supplied to the unit, or does the unit only draw current from the
battery when the main power is interrupted?
I'd measure it directly, but none of my multimeters are able to
accurately measure microamperes.
Thank you all for your time and assistance. If any other time-nuts
happen to make it to Bern, Switzerland in the next few years, please let
me know and drinks are on me.
Cheers!
-Pete
On UT+ firmware update. I don't think it is possible to update the
firmware in a UT+.
Back in 2006, time-nuts had a member, Randy Warner, who worked at
Synergy. In the message linked here
http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts%40febo.com/msg02684.html
He describes the firmware update as a factory-only process that could be
done then for $25. Now I doubt there is any way to get it done. I have
never heard of any way to accomplish it without unobtanium factory tools
and images.
If you search in that mail-archive time-nuts section (linked above), for
the subject "Oncore GPS models", you may find some more information.
On 3/13/2015 1:33 PM, Pete Stephenson wrote:
Hi all,
After a few years of using a Garmin GPS 18x LVC for timekeeping, my
budget now allows for some upgrades and I had a small field day on eBay:
I acquired a Trimble Thunderbolt, two Trimble Resolution Ts, and two
Motorola Oncore UT+s (seconds purchased for spares and testing).
The documentation for the Trimbles is clear, but I had several questions
regarding the Oncores that I was unable to find clear answers to online.
I would be very much obliged if the folks here might be able to help.
- Is it possible to upgrade the firmware on the Oncore UT+? If so,
where can one acquire the latest firmware (3.2, I believe) files and how
would go one about installing it? Is this something WinOncore can do? I
ask because the receivers on eBay are of varying vintage and may not be
fully upgraded.
Since Motorola exited the GPS business a relatively long time ago,
firmware updates and directions have proven difficult (impossible so
far) for me to find.
Le 13 mars 2015 à 21:33, Pete Stephenson pete@heypete.com a écrit :
Hi all,
After a few years of using a Garmin GPS 18x LVC for timekeeping, my
budget now allows for some upgrades and I had a small field day on eBay:
I acquired a Trimble Thunderbolt, two Trimble Resolution Ts, and two
Motorola Oncore UT+s (seconds purchased for spares and testing).
The documentation for the Trimbles is clear, but I had several questions
regarding the Oncores that I was unable to find clear answers to online.
I would be very much obliged if the folks here might be able to help.
- Is it possible to upgrade the firmware on the Oncore UT+? If so,
where can one acquire the latest firmware (3.2, I believe) files and how
would go one about installing it? Is this something WinOncore can do? I
ask because the receivers on eBay are of varying vintage and may not be
fully upgraded.
The WinOncore12 application has an option to download firmware but I have not been able to find a source of firmware.
Since Motorola exited the GPS business a relatively long time ago,
firmware updates and directions have proven difficult (impossible so
far) for me to find.
- The two Oncores I purchased were not factory-equipped with a
rechargeable battery. The user guide says that one can apply "Externally
applied backup power (< +5V)" to pin #1 in order to maintain data in RAM
in case the main power is interrupted.
Can one use a common non-rechargeable coin-cell battery like a CR2032 to
provide this backup power, or does it need to be a rechargeable battery?
Will a CR2032 or the Oncore itself be damaged if such a cell is used?
- Tom says at
http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2012-October/034001.html that
in addition to being an input for external backup power, pin #1 on the
Oncore provides current-limited 5V for battery/supercapacitor charging.
Is this true for Oncore receivers that were not factory-equipped with a
rechargeable battery?
I don’t recall detecting any voltage on that pin.
If true, what is the maximum current that can be
safely supplied by the pin? As above, is it safe to use a
non-rechargeable battery like a CR2032?
I have a couple of UT+ receivers which were not equipped with batteries and I used a CR2032 for backup without any issue. They were disconnected sometimes for considerable periods on a number of occasions and the saved data was always accessible on power up. I don’t know how long a battery like that lasts. I have one, powered off, still with the battery in circuit that I pulled in 12/2010. Hmmm. might be worth powering it on to see.
If pin #1 can supply power and I wanted to charge a supercapacitor from
that pin, would I also need to include a current-limiting resistor to
prevent the Oncore from sourcing too much current?
I could find nothing in the user guide that says that pin #1 can be used
for charging a battery.
http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/ShopTalk/9backup_battery_considerations.pdf
is unclear on whether or not pin #1 can be used for charging batteries,
or if it's safe to use non-rechargeable cells like a CR2032 coin-cell
battery.
4. The user manual and the battery backup considerations document says
that the Oncore UT+ draws 5-100 uA (15uA typical) from the backup power
source. Is this a constant draw, even when the main 5V power is being
supplied to the unit, or does the unit only draw current from the
battery when the main power is interrupted?
Unknown.
I'd measure it directly, but none of my multimeters are able to
accurately measure microamperes.
Thank you all for your time and assistance. If any other time-nuts
happen to make it to Bern, Switzerland in the next few years, please let
me know and drinks are on me.
Cheers!
-Pete
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
I don't know about firmware but I do use the CR2032. The super cap would
work too but an uncharged cap look like a short circuit.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Pete Stephenson pete@heypete.com wrote:
Hi all,
- The two Oncores I purchased were not factory-equipped with a
rechargeable battery. The user guide says that one can apply "Externally
applied backup power (< +5V)" to pin #1 in order to maintain data in RAM
in case the main power is interrupted.
Can one use a common non-rechargeable coin-cell battery like a CR2032 to
provide this backup power, or does it need to be a rechargeable battery?
Will a CR2032 or the Oncore itself be damaged if such a cell is used?
- Tom says at
http://lists.ntp.org/pipermail/questions/2012-October/034001.html that
in addition to being an input for external backup power, pin #1 on the
Oncore provides current-limited 5V for battery/supercapacitor charging.
Is this true for Oncore receivers that were not factory-equipped with a
rechargeable battery? If true, what is the maximum current that can be
safely supplied by the pin? As above, is it safe to use a
non-rechargeable battery like a CR2032?
If pin #1 can supply power and I wanted to charge a supercapacitor from
that pin, would I also need to include a current-limiting resistor to
prevent the Oncore from sourcing too much current?
I could find nothing in the user guide that says that pin #1 can be used
for charging a battery.
<
http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/ShopTalk/9backup_battery_considerations.pdf
is unclear on whether or not pin #1 can be used for charging batteries,
or if it's safe to use non-rechargeable cells like a CR2032 coin-cell
battery.
4. The user manual and the battery backup considerations document says
that the Oncore UT+ draws 5-100 uA (15uA typical) from the backup power
source. Is this a constant draw, even when the main 5V power is being
supplied to the unit, or does the unit only draw current from the
battery when the main power is interrupted?
I'd measure it directly, but none of my multimeters are able to
accurately measure microamperes.
Thank you all for your time and assistance. If any other time-nuts
happen to make it to Bern, Switzerland in the next few years, please let
me know and drinks are on me.
Cheers!
-Pete
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
If true, what is the maximum current that can be
safely supplied by the pin? As above, is it safe to use a
non-rechargeable battery like a CR2032?
I have a couple of UT+ receivers which were not equipped with batteries and I used a CR2032 for backup without any issue. They were disconnected sometimes for considerable periods on a number of occasions and the saved data was always accessible on power up. I don’t know how long a battery like that lasts. I have one, powered off, still with the battery in circuit that I pulled in 12/2010. Hmmm. might be worth powering it on to see.
Well, I dug it out and checked the voltage across the CR2032. Down to 2.8volts after 4yrs 3mths. Connected up the receiver ad powered up.
It came up in position hold mode with the coordinates that were stored in 2010. 1PPS is on but I am only seeing 2 sats and am not to sync’d to UTC. I think the almanac may be no good. I’ll leave it a while and see if t recovers.
Anyway. Using a CR2032 is OK, at least with my hardware and you get backup for at least 4 years.
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Mike Cook michael.cook@sfr.fr wrote:
If true, what is the maximum current that can be
safely supplied by the pin? As above, is it safe to use a
non-rechargeable battery like a CR2032?
I have a couple of UT+ receivers which were not equipped with batteries and I used a CR2032 for backup without any issue. They were disconnected sometimes for considerable periods on a number of occasions and the saved data was always accessible on power up. I don’t know how long a battery like that lasts. I have one, powered off, still with the battery in circuit that I pulled in 12/2010. Hmmm. might be worth powering it on to see.
Well, I dug it out and checked the voltage across the CR2032. Down to 2.8volts after 4yrs 3mths. Connected up the receiver ad powered up.
It came up in position hold mode with the coordinates that were stored in 2010. 1PPS is on but I am only seeing 2 sats and am not to sync’d to UTC. I think the almanac may be no good. I’ll leave it a while and see if t recovers.
Anyway. Using a CR2032 is OK, at least with my hardware and you get backup for at least 4 years.
Fantastic. Just what I wanted to hear. Thanks for checking.
Also, my apologies for sending a blank reply to the list a moment ago.
--
Pete Stephenson
Le 14 mars 2015 à 19:01, Pete Stephenson pete@heypete.com a écrit :
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Mike Cook michael.cook@sfr.fr wrote:
If true, what is the maximum current that can be
safely supplied by the pin? As above, is it safe to use a
non-rechargeable battery like a CR2032?
I have a couple of UT+ receivers which were not equipped with batteries and I used a CR2032 for backup without any issue. They were disconnected sometimes for considerable periods on a number of occasions and the saved data was always accessible on power up. I don’t know how long a battery like that lasts. I have one, powered off, still with the battery in circuit that I pulled in 12/2010. Hmmm. might be worth powering it on to see.
Well, I dug it out and checked the voltage across the CR2032. Down to 2.8volts after 4yrs 3mths. Connected up the receiver ad powered up.
It came up in position hold mode with the coordinates that were stored in 2010. 1PPS is on but I am only seeing 2 sats and am not to sync’d to UTC. I think the almanac may be no good. I’ll leave it a while and see if t recovers.
Anyway. Using a CR2032 is OK, at least with my hardware and you get backup for at least 4 years.
Fantastic. Just what I wanted to hear. Thanks for checking.
Probably was a bad almanac . Maybe in testing, Motorola hadn’t figure the receiver could be off for years . I had to reset the receiver.
But OK after that. BTW that was firmware 3.2.
Also, my apologies for sending a blank reply to the list a moment ago.
--
Pete Stephenson
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 12:56:05 +0100
Mike Cook michael.cook@sfr.fr wrote:
Anyway. Using a CR2032 is OK, at least with my hardware and you get backup for at least 4 years.
A CR2032 is a quite huge coin cell. An NVRAM module does not use much
power once Vcc goes to zero. In todays low power modules it's in the order
of 100nA max specified. You can assume it to be somewhere in the range
of 10nA (probably package leakage limited) and 1uA (something has gone
wrong or very old module). Compare that to the ~240mAh capacity a CR2032
has (terminal voltage at 2.0V). Even assumeing a 1uA current, this will
give you 27 years retention. The limit with coin cells is usually their
self-discharge which is often specified in the 1%/year range, but in
reality gives you a battery lifetime of 10 to 20 years.
Attila Kinali
--
< av500> phd is easy
< av500> getting dsl is hard
Hi
The “old almanac” issue is very normal for early Oncore modules. Some (possibly custom) firmware times out a stored almanac after
searching for X hours (minutes?). The original firmware did not time out. You can sit there for a long time with a bad almanac ….
The real issue is the lack of a running real time clock. With no way to figure out how old the almanac is, the module can’t make a rational
decision about almanac age. By default, the module just saves the last clock value in ram. It starts from what ever time it had last when
the main power comes back on. The app notes on the module recommended clearing the almanac as the solution.
The obvious drawback to the official solution is that you have to do it with firmware. If you have to do that, you might as well re-load
the ram based data from scratch. Essentially all the OEM’s made that decision. Thus we have a lot of modules out there with no
batteries on them.
Bob
On Mar 15, 2015, at 2:36 AM, Mike Cook michael.cook@sfr.fr wrote:
Le 14 mars 2015 à 19:01, Pete Stephenson pete@heypete.com a écrit :
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM, Mike Cook michael.cook@sfr.fr wrote:
If true, what is the maximum current that can be
safely supplied by the pin? As above, is it safe to use a
non-rechargeable battery like a CR2032?
I have a couple of UT+ receivers which were not equipped with batteries and I used a CR2032 for backup without any issue. They were disconnected sometimes for considerable periods on a number of occasions and the saved data was always accessible on power up. I don’t know how long a battery like that lasts. I have one, powered off, still with the battery in circuit that I pulled in 12/2010. Hmmm. might be worth powering it on to see.
Well, I dug it out and checked the voltage across the CR2032. Down to 2.8volts after 4yrs 3mths. Connected up the receiver ad powered up.
It came up in position hold mode with the coordinates that were stored in 2010. 1PPS is on but I am only seeing 2 sats and am not to sync’d to UTC. I think the almanac may be no good. I’ll leave it a while and see if t recovers.
Anyway. Using a CR2032 is OK, at least with my hardware and you get backup for at least 4 years.
Fantastic. Just what I wanted to hear. Thanks for checking.
Probably was a bad almanac . Maybe in testing, Motorola hadn’t figure the receiver could be off for years . I had to reset the receiver.
But OK after that. BTW that was firmware 3.2.
Also, my apologies for sending a blank reply to the list a moment ago.
--
Pete Stephenson
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.