Attchevement
Arild, Hannu et-al.....
It saddens me that there people like you guys, that
are so mean-spirited
that you belittle effort and fortitude of young people who want to push
envolop of their abilities...
You should remeber that you may not have been in possition to make these
comments, had it not been for
1,000's of teenagers and young people who gave there all in two world
wars...This young person
showed the same spirit, so she did not need to do it, so what, she had a
go.....I would not want you guys
on my team if my back was against the wall... Do the honarable thing
appolagize.....If you have guts....
Noel in Kiwiland
On 14.4.2010 9:19, Noel Anderson wrote:
Arild, Hannu et-al.....
You should remeber that you may not have been in possition to make these
comments, had it not been for
1,000's of teenagers and young people who gave there all in two world
wars...
Complete nonsense.
I have served in my countries armed forces and carried loaded automatic
weapons in uniform. Have You ?
showed the same spirit, so she did not need to do it, so what, she had a
go.....
She did a silly unnecessary publicity stunt.
I would not want you guys
on my team if my back was against the wall...
Why ? Because I would be committed, or because I am articulate, or
because I would not be there unless it was necessary, unlike her ?
Do the honarable thing
appolagize.....If you have guts....
Noel in Kiwiland
Apologise for what ?
She put herself and others in dangers unnecessarily for a publicity
stunt. Contemptible.
The problem is the concept of "youngest ever to" NOT the fact that she
sailed solo around the world.
I gave full credit to Jessicas skills, and no credit to the manner and
reasons she did it. My criticism was NOT aimed at HER, but at the
PUBLICITY and silly concept of "youngest ever".
Hal ---
Hannu, I respect your right to your opinion, but I'm curious as to what you
might have said to Sir Edmund Hilary in May of 1953 as he and Tenzig Norgay
attempted the summit of Mount Everest.
I believe Sir Edmund Hillary did a great courageous thing that greatly extended peoples mountain climbing and adventure boundaries.
Congratulations.
His achievement was the exact polar opposite of Jessica4s stunt.
It pushed boundaries and increased human achievement etc.
Probably one of the greatest female mountain climber ever, Aracelli
Segarra, is from here, in Barcelona.
She herself is of the opinion that her ascent of Mount Everest in 1996
(first Spanish female to have done so) did not, in any way, increase
climbing or contribute in any meaningful way to the sport.
Thats a quote from her, btw.
http://www.aracelisegarra.com/english/home.php
Her attitude is also excellent and she has demonstrated exactly those
qualities which Jessicas stunt did not.
For everyone who has had negative comments to me, here is the analysis
again in a nutshell:
- IF Jessica had sailed alone, around the world, with NO PUBLICITY, in a
spirit of adventure, it would have been a voyage of discovery for
herself, and an attempt to push her personal boundaries.
This was NOT the case. - IF a big deal had NOT BEEN made of the fact that she was the youngest
person to have done so, in advance, likewise.
This was NOT the case. - IF she had not shown appallingly poor judgment in not keeping watch,
in a BUSY SHIPPING LANE, when she KNEW there was a ship nearby, I would
not question her judgment. - IF she had managed to do all this on her own, including managing
planning and financing the whole expedition, then I would respect her
achievement enormously.
This, again, was not the case. - IF Jessica had contributed anything other to sailing on this trip than
selling advertisements, I could respect the achievement.
This was NOT the case. - The problem was NOT sailing solo around the world. The problem was
making a ballyhoo about the fact that she was the youngest. Even worse,
pretending that she is someone to be emulated or admired for being the
youngest.
Now, even if you step into a prepared boat, sailing around the world,
solo, is still a good feat.
But suggesting that young people should compete in who is the youngest
to have every done so is reckless, silly, irresponsible, dangerous and
shortsighted.
Suggesting that other young people should emulate her even more so.
Again, the key fact here is the Q of "youngest to" and NOT sailing solo
around the world.
Comparing a moonshot, or soldiers in a war, to doing a publicity stunt,
is in my opinion somewhat lacking in scope and depth of vision.
OTOH, unlike many states (countries) today, I believe that there exists
a freedom of choice, and among those freedoms is the right to choose to
engage in risky or dangerous activities.
As such, I support Jessica right to have chosen to attempt it.
With such freedom of choice, a concomitant responsibility should be given.
I believe I have said all I need to say on the subject.
Too all concerned on PUP,
OK, this is ridiculous. I subscribed to this list in order to learn about
passagemaking under power, not to listen to angry, hateful people hammering
out their diatribe each time someone says or does something bold. David
Schramm's passing comment about buying American to save the future may have
been unnecessary or irrelevant. All that you had to do was ignore the
comment or just reply politely. But no, you had to go all out and make a big
drama of it.
Same with Jessica. Here's a young woman with drive and passion. She's done
something most people haven't, or ever will. Whether she was too young, or
too inexperienced is now moot. She's made it back to Australia with no
further accidents or incidents. Undoubtedly, she's learnt a valuable lesson
from the collision and I think we can safely assume that she won't do that
again. Who would?
How about some knowledge being passed around instead of lectures? Honestly,
if you get this riled up about things that don't matter, I'd hate to see you
with something that does.
I'm leaving. I have nothing further to learn here.
Tedd
Argue for you limitations,
and sure enough,
they're yours.
Hannu.....
I was born in 1935.... and yes I have carried arms for my
country, as a Paratrooper....I will not comment further on that...
Below a gentalman makes referance to Sir Ed. Hilary, I was lucky that I
lived some 300mtr
from him, here in NZ, we chated often when he was home and not of biulding
schools and hospitals for the needy in Nepal... What an insperation he was
to the young people of NZ and the world......The leader of the Everest
Expedition was one Col. John Hunt ( later Lord Hunt) Director of the Duke of
Edinbroughs Award (google it if you don't know what it is). Yes, I knew him
as well, as I was involved in the D of E for many years in the UK..... There
is a thread here, both these young achivers, Ed and John, became leaders in
thire communities, in other endevors.........Young people like Jessica, the
ones that push the envelop, are ones most likly to become the leaders of
tomorrow.... I hope Jessica's attchevement inspirers many other young people
to push the envelop, and move them out of thire commfort zone, to test thire
metal......We have far too many couch potatos and critics....
I'v done a fair bit of single handed sailing around the
coast of NZ, and yes I'v S...t myself a couple of times, but the boat was
well founded and tougher than me. I learned that I can do more than I
thourght I could......
Please Hannu, be a little more gracious, like
the great men Ed and John........(unfortunatly they are no longer with us)
My kindest regards
Noel in Kiwiland
----- Original Message -----
From: "hannu venermo" hanermo@amorco.net
To: "Noel Anderson" nandrand@xtra.co.nz;
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Jessicas Attchevement ?
On 14.4.2010 9:19, Noel Anderson wrote:
Arild, Hannu et-al.....
You should remeber that you may not have been in possition to make these
comments, had it not been for
1,000's of teenagers and young people who gave there all in two world
wars...
Complete nonsense.
I have served in my countries armed forces and carried loaded automatic
weapons in uniform. Have You ?
showed the same spirit, so she did not need to do it, so what, she had a
go.....
She did a silly unnecessary publicity stunt.
I would not want you guys
on my team if my back was against the wall...
Why ? Because I would be committed, or because I am articulate, or because
I would not be there unless it was necessary, unlike her ?
Do the honarable thing
appolagize.....If you have guts....
Noel in Kiwiland
Apologise for what ?
She put herself and others in dangers unnecessarily for a publicity stunt.
Contemptible.
The problem is the concept of "youngest ever to" NOT the fact that she
sailed solo around the world.
I gave full credit to Jessicas skills, and no credit to the manner and
reasons she did it. My criticism was NOT aimed at HER, but at the
PUBLICITY and silly concept of "youngest ever".
Hal ---
Hannu, I respect your right to your opinion, but I'm curious as to what
you
might have said to Sir Edmund Hilary in May of 1953 as he and Tenzig
Norgay
attempted the summit of Mount Everest.
I believe Sir Edmund Hillary did a great courageous thing that greatly
extended peoples mountain climbing and adventure boundaries.
Congratulations.
His achievement was the exact polar opposite of Jessica4s stunt.
It pushed boundaries and increased human achievement etc.
Probably one of the greatest female mountain climber ever, Aracelli
Segarra, is from here, in Barcelona.
She herself is of the opinion that her ascent of Mount Everest in 1996
(first Spanish female to have done so) did not, in any way, increase
climbing or contribute in any meaningful way to the sport.
Thats a quote from her, btw.
http://www.aracelisegarra.com/english/home.php
Her attitude is also excellent and she has demonstrated exactly those
qualities which Jessicas stunt did not.
For everyone who has had negative comments to me, here is the analysis
again in a nutshell:
- IF Jessica had sailed alone, around the world, with NO PUBLICITY, in a
spirit of adventure, it would have been a voyage of discovery for herself,
and an attempt to push her personal boundaries.
This was NOT the case. - IF a big deal had NOT BEEN made of the fact that she was the youngest
person to have done so, in advance, likewise.
This was NOT the case. - IF she had not shown appallingly poor judgment in not keeping watch, in
a BUSY SHIPPING LANE, when she KNEW there was a ship nearby, I would not
question her judgment. - IF she had managed to do all this on her own, including managing
planning and financing the whole expedition, then I would respect her
achievement enormously.
This, again, was not the case. - IF Jessica had contributed anything other to sailing on this trip than
selling advertisements, I could respect the achievement.
This was NOT the case. - The problem was NOT sailing solo around the world. The problem was
making a ballyhoo about the fact that she was the youngest. Even worse,
pretending that she is someone to be emulated or admired for being the
youngest.
Now, even if you step into a prepared boat, sailing around the world,
solo, is still a good feat.
But suggesting that young people should compete in who is the youngest to
have every done so is reckless, silly, irresponsible, dangerous and
shortsighted.
Suggesting that other young people should emulate her even more so.
Again, the key fact here is the Q of "youngest to" and NOT sailing solo
around the world.
Comparing a moonshot, or soldiers in a war, to doing a publicity stunt, is
in my opinion somewhat lacking in scope and depth of vision.
OTOH, unlike many states (countries) today, I believe that there exists a
freedom of choice, and among those freedoms is the right to choose to
engage in risky or dangerous activities.
As such, I support Jessica right to have chosen to attempt it.
With such freedom of choice, a concomitant responsibility should be given.
I believe I have said all I need to say on the subject.
Alright everyone -- we have beat this to death and have strayed off topic.
Let's move on.
Alan Wagner
PUP List Master
Hey Guys................everyone who climbs mountains.....sails around the
world singlehandily......parachutes off mountains.......do it because they
want to.....are they heros?........NO......they have no other constructive
thing to do in their lives......it is for egos....and other bored people with
more money than brains..........I am about to sail around the world.......am I
a hero?.....NO.....I am bored and have more money than
brains.....so.......keep it in perspective!!
From: nandrand@xtra.co.nz
To: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:19:36 +1200
Subject: Re: [PUP] Jessicas Attchevement ?
Hannu.....
I was born in 1935.... and yes I have carried arms for my
country, as a Paratrooper....I will not comment further on that...
Below a gentalman makes referance to Sir Ed. Hilary, I was lucky that I
lived some 300mtr
from him, here in NZ, we chated often when he was home and not of biulding
schools and hospitals for the needy in Nepal... What an insperation he was
to the young people of NZ and the world......The leader of the Everest
Expedition was one Col. John Hunt ( later Lord Hunt) Director of the Duke of
Edinbroughs Award (google it if you don't know what it is). Yes, I knew him
as well, as I was involved in the D of E for many years in the UK..... There
is a thread here, both these young achivers, Ed and John, became leaders in
thire communities, in other endevors.........Young people like Jessica, the
ones that push the envelop, are ones most likly to become the leaders of
tomorrow.... I hope Jessica's attchevement inspirers many other young people
to push the envelop, and move them out of thire commfort zone, to test thire
metal......We have far too many couch potatos and critics....
I'v done a fair bit of single handed sailing around the
coast of NZ, and yes I'v S...t myself a couple of times, but the boat was
well founded and tougher than me. I learned that I can do more than I
thourght I could......
Please Hannu, be a little more gracious, like
the great men Ed and John........(unfortunatly they are no longer with us)
My kindest regards
Noel in Kiwiland
----- Original Message -----
From: "hannu venermo" hanermo@amorco.net
To: "Noel Anderson" nandrand@xtra.co.nz;
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Jessicas Attchevement ?
On 14.4.2010 9:19, Noel Anderson wrote:
Arild, Hannu et-al.....
You should remeber that you may not have been in possition to make these
comments, had it not been for
1,000's of teenagers and young people who gave there all in two world
wars...
Complete nonsense.
I have served in my countries armed forces and carried loaded automatic
weapons in uniform. Have You ?
showed the same spirit, so she did not need to do it, so what, she had a
go.....
She did a silly unnecessary publicity stunt.
I would not want you guys
on my team if my back was against the wall...
Why ? Because I would be committed, or because I am articulate, or because
I would not be there unless it was necessary, unlike her ?
Do the honarable thing
appolagize.....If you have guts....
Noel in Kiwiland
Apologise for what ?
She put herself and others in dangers unnecessarily for a publicity stunt.
Contemptible.
The problem is the concept of "youngest ever to" NOT the fact that she
sailed solo around the world.
I gave full credit to Jessicas skills, and no credit to the manner and
reasons she did it. My criticism was NOT aimed at HER, but at the
PUBLICITY and silly concept of "youngest ever".
Hal ---
Hannu, I respect your right to your opinion, but I'm curious as to what
you
might have said to Sir Edmund Hilary in May of 1953 as he and Tenzig
Norgay
attempted the summit of Mount Everest.
I believe Sir Edmund Hillary did a great courageous thing that greatly
extended peoples mountain climbing and adventure boundaries.
Congratulations.
His achievement was the exact polar opposite of Jessica4s stunt.
It pushed boundaries and increased human achievement etc.
Probably one of the greatest female mountain climber ever, Aracelli
Segarra, is from here, in Barcelona.
She herself is of the opinion that her ascent of Mount Everest in 1996
(first Spanish female to have done so) did not, in any way, increase
climbing or contribute in any meaningful way to the sport.
Thats a quote from her, btw.
http://www.aracelisegarra.com/english/home.php
Her attitude is also excellent and she has demonstrated exactly those
qualities which Jessicas stunt did not.
For everyone who has had negative comments to me, here is the analysis
again in a nutshell:
- IF Jessica had sailed alone, around the world, with NO PUBLICITY, in a
spirit of adventure, it would have been a voyage of discovery for herself,
and an attempt to push her personal boundaries.
This was NOT the case. - IF a big deal had NOT BEEN made of the fact that she was the youngest
person to have done so, in advance, likewise.
This was NOT the case. - IF she had not shown appallingly poor judgment in not keeping watch, in
a BUSY SHIPPING LANE, when she KNEW there was a ship nearby, I would not
question her judgment. - IF she had managed to do all this on her own, including managing
planning and financing the whole expedition, then I would respect her
achievement enormously.
This, again, was not the case. - IF Jessica had contributed anything other to sailing on this trip than
selling advertisements, I could respect the achievement.
This was NOT the case. - The problem was NOT sailing solo around the world. The problem was
making a ballyhoo about the fact that she was the youngest. Even worse,
pretending that she is someone to be emulated or admired for being the
youngest.
Now, even if you step into a prepared boat, sailing around the world,
solo, is still a good feat.
But suggesting that young people should compete in who is the youngest to
have every done so is reckless, silly, irresponsible, dangerous and
shortsighted.
Suggesting that other young people should emulate her even more so.
Again, the key fact here is the Q of "youngest to" and NOT sailing solo
around the world.
Comparing a moonshot, or soldiers in a war, to doing a publicity stunt, is
in my opinion somewhat lacking in scope and depth of vision.
OTOH, unlike many states (countries) today, I believe that there exists a
freedom of choice, and among those freedoms is the right to choose to
engage in risky or dangerous activities.
As such, I support Jessica right to have chosen to attempt it.
With such freedom of choice, a concomitant responsibility should be
given.
I believe I have said all I need to say on the subject.
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STOP IT,FOR THE LOVE OF GOD<STOP IT
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave stephens" stephensdave@hotmail.com
To: nandrand@xtra.co.nz; passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com;
"ralph douglas" sensua6@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Jessicas Attchevement ?
I agree this subject has been tossed back and forth long enough. It matters
not why she did it or why her parents let her do it, she did it. I would
rather read about something like this ONCE than to read about someone her
age
being in court for drugs, theft or murder.. Good for her, she should be
proud
of herself and let it be.
Dave
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions.
14:31:00
I agree this subject has been tossed back and forth long enough. It matters
not why she did it or why her parents let her do it, she did it. I would
rather read about something like this ONCE than to read about someone her age
being in court for drugs, theft or murder.. Good for her, she should be proud
of herself and let it be.
Dave
GEEZ.......GUY.......CHILL OUT!!!
Subject: Re: [PUP] Jessicas Attchevement ?
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:22:08 -0400
STOP IT,FOR THE LOVE OF GOD<STOP IT
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave stephens" stephensdave@hotmail.com
To: nandrand@xtra.co.nz; passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com;
"ralph douglas" sensua6@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Jessicas Attchevement ?
I agree this subject has been tossed back and forth long enough. It
matters
not why she did it or why her parents let her do it, she did it. I would
rather read about something like this ONCE than to read about someone her
age
being in court for drugs, theft or murder.. Good for her, she should be
proud
of herself and let it be.
Dave
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions.
14:31:00
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
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:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2