Empathy List Archives

MK

Matt Krick

Tue, Feb 28, 2023 8:40 PM

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make
the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to
get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of
turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the outdoor antenna. I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the PCB. I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 transistors though. I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. Thank you! --Matt

BC

Bob Camp

Tue, Feb 28, 2023 11:02 PM

Hi

The antenna was a loop antenna. Designing one is non-trivial, but there is a lot
of info out on the internet. The one thing you do not want is a chunk of conduit
around the outside of the antenna.

How many turns, what resonating capacitor, what sort of preamp in the antenna …..
very much a “that depends” sort of thing. (… the original antenna had a preamp in it …).

The bigger issue is the basic fact they have changed the WWVB signal format.
The new “phase modulation” approach plays havoc with the traditional test gear.
It pretty much makes it un-usable.

Bob

On Feb 28, 2023, at 3:40 PM, Matt Krick via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make
the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to
get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of
turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi The antenna was a loop antenna. Designing one is non-trivial, but there is a lot of info out on the internet. The one thing you do *not* want is a chunk of conduit around the outside of the antenna. How many turns, what resonating capacitor, what sort of preamp in the antenna ….. very much a “that depends” sort of thing. (… the original antenna had a preamp in it …). The bigger issue is the basic fact they have changed the WWVB signal format. The new “phase modulation” approach plays havoc with the traditional test gear. It pretty much makes it un-usable. Bob > On Feb 28, 2023, at 3:40 PM, Matt Krick via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the > outdoor antenna. > > I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked > electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the > PCB. > > I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix > 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 > transistors though. > > I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. > > So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make > the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to > get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. > > For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a > couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more > detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of > turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. > > Thank you! > --Matt > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

PS

paul swed

Tue, Feb 28, 2023 11:21 PM

Great to hear on the vlf117 Matt.
I have 2 of the units that I had to repair also. Fortunately no leaking
caps.
The urge is to add new tubes and then tweak the coils. Don't. They are
fragile.
However the fact that you need -80 dbm does seem a bit low.
Assuming the preamp in the antenna is about 10 db or so.
Believe there were 2 antenna versions. One used 2 X nuvistors and as I
recall the other 2 X transistors.
Coax sends 30 VDC.
The antenna is a loop antenna and does look like a piece of conduit. But
there is a break in the conduit so it
does not form a shorted turn. Typically the loop is a piece of 25 pair
phone cable. The ends solder together turn by turn to make 1 wire.
Then a resonating cap for 60 KHz.

Now the bad news.
Even if you get the vlf117 working. It can no longer track the wwvb carrier
because phase shift keying was introduced some 10 years ago. This obsoletes
all of the old tracking receivers. You need some adapter to get rid of the
keying.
Several have been made. One thats been very effective is the d-psk-r.
Search time nuts archives. But these adapters are a whole additional layer
of complexity.
Without them you have a nice heater.
Good luck Matt.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 5:48 PM Matt Krick via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make
the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to
get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of
turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Great to hear on the vlf117 Matt. I have 2 of the units that I had to repair also. Fortunately no leaking caps. The urge is to add new tubes and then tweak the coils. Don't. They are fragile. However the fact that you need -80 dbm does seem a bit low. Assuming the preamp in the antenna is about 10 db or so. Believe there were 2 antenna versions. One used 2 X nuvistors and as I recall the other 2 X transistors. Coax sends 30 VDC. The antenna is a loop antenna and does look like a piece of conduit. But there is a break in the conduit so it does not form a shorted turn. Typically the loop is a piece of 25 pair phone cable. The ends solder together turn by turn to make 1 wire. Then a resonating cap for 60 KHz. Now the bad news. Even if you get the vlf117 working. It can no longer track the wwvb carrier because phase shift keying was introduced some 10 years ago. This obsoletes all of the old tracking receivers. You need some adapter to get rid of the keying. Several have been made. One thats been very effective is the d-psk-r. Search time nuts archives. But these adapters are a whole additional layer of complexity. Without them you have a nice heater. Good luck Matt. Paul WB8TSL On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 5:48 PM Matt Krick via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the > outdoor antenna. > > I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked > electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the > PCB. > > I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix > 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 > transistors though. > > I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. > > So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make > the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to > get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. > > For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a > couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more > detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of > turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. > > Thank you! > --Matt > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >

MK

Matt Krick

Wed, Mar 1, 2023 12:07 AM

I do have some MC1596s So I'm playing with the idea of making a card for
the spare card slot in the back to double and then divide by 2 with a
transistor flip flop similar to the other cards in the unit do.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 15:21 paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:

Great to hear on the vlf117 Matt.
I have 2 of the units that I had to repair also. Fortunately no leaking
caps.
The urge is to add new tubes and then tweak the coils. Don't. They are
fragile.
However the fact that you need -80 dbm does seem a bit low.
Assuming the preamp in the antenna is about 10 db or so.
Believe there were 2 antenna versions. One used 2 X nuvistors and as I
recall the other 2 X transistors.
Coax sends 30 VDC.
The antenna is a loop antenna and does look like a piece of conduit. But
there is a break in the conduit so it
does not form a shorted turn. Typically the loop is a piece of 25 pair
phone cable. The ends solder together turn by turn to make 1 wire.
Then a resonating cap for 60 KHz.

Now the bad news.
Even if you get the vlf117 working. It can no longer track the wwvb
carrier because phase shift keying was introduced some 10 years ago. This
obsoletes all of the old tracking receivers. You need some adapter to get
rid of the keying.
Several have been made. One thats been very effective is the d-psk-r.
Search time nuts archives. But these adapters are a whole additional layer
of complexity.
Without them you have a nice heater.
Good luck Matt.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 5:48 PM Matt Krick via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to
make
the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm
to
get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of
turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

I do have some MC1596s So I'm playing with the idea of making a card for the spare card slot in the back to double and then divide by 2 with a transistor flip flop similar to the other cards in the unit do. On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 15:21 paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > Great to hear on the vlf117 Matt. > I have 2 of the units that I had to repair also. Fortunately no leaking > caps. > The urge is to add new tubes and then tweak the coils. Don't. They are > fragile. > However the fact that you need -80 dbm does seem a bit low. > Assuming the preamp in the antenna is about 10 db or so. > Believe there were 2 antenna versions. One used 2 X nuvistors and as I > recall the other 2 X transistors. > Coax sends 30 VDC. > The antenna is a loop antenna and does look like a piece of conduit. But > there is a break in the conduit so it > does not form a shorted turn. Typically the loop is a piece of 25 pair > phone cable. The ends solder together turn by turn to make 1 wire. > Then a resonating cap for 60 KHz. > > Now the bad news. > Even if you get the vlf117 working. It can no longer track the wwvb > carrier because phase shift keying was introduced some 10 years ago. This > obsoletes all of the old tracking receivers. You need some adapter to get > rid of the keying. > Several have been made. One thats been very effective is the d-psk-r. > Search time nuts archives. But these adapters are a whole additional layer > of complexity. > Without them you have a nice heater. > Good luck Matt. > Paul > WB8TSL > > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 5:48 PM Matt Krick via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > >> I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the >> outdoor antenna. >> >> I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked >> electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the >> PCB. >> >> I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix >> 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 >> transistors though. >> >> I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. >> >> So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to >> make >> the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm >> to >> get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. >> >> For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a >> couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more >> detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of >> turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. >> >> Thank you! >> --Matt >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >> >

BC

Brooke Clarke

Wed, Mar 1, 2023 1:45 AM

Hi Matt:

There were two versions of the loop antenna. The early one used a couple of 13CW4 Nuvistors and the newer one used FETs.
https://prc68.com/I/117A.shtml

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
https://www.PRC68.com
axioms:

The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works.
Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.

-------- Original Message --------

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make
the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to
get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of
turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi Matt: There were two versions of the loop antenna. The early one used a couple of 13CW4 Nuvistors and the newer one used FETs. https://prc68.com/I/117A.shtml -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke https://www.PRC68.com axioms: 1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works. 2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs. -------- Original Message -------- > I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the > outdoor antenna. > > I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked > electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the > PCB. > > I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix > 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 > transistors though. > > I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. > > So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make > the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to > get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. > > For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a > couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more > detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of > turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. > > Thank you! > --Matt > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >

JH

JOHN HARTZELL

Wed, Mar 1, 2023 10:07 AM

I make loop antennas and may be able to help you out. Do you have a picture of the antenna or diagram, dimensions? Also, what frequency is it that you are trying to capture. Lastly, you definitely want the conduit pipe. It is what will thwart the noise. The truck is that it cannot be a complete loop.

Kind regards,

John

https://linkedin.com/in/john-h-6a131b12/

On Feb 28, 2023, at 5:47 PM, Matt Krick via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make
the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to
get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of
turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

I make loop antennas and may be able to help you out. Do you have a picture of the antenna or diagram, dimensions? Also, what frequency is it that you are trying to capture. Lastly, you definitely want the conduit pipe. It is what will thwart the noise. The truck is that it cannot be a complete loop. Kind regards, John https://linkedin.com/in/john-h-6a131b12/ > On Feb 28, 2023, at 5:47 PM, Matt Krick via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the > outdoor antenna. > > I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked > electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the > PCB. > > I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix > 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 > transistors though. > > I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. > > So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make > the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to > get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. > > For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a > couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more > detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of > turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. > > Thank you! > --Matt > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

GB

Gordon Batey

Wed, Mar 1, 2023 1:47 PM

Good Morning Matt,

I have a couple of HP 117 units and one loop antenna with the nuvister
preamp. I could open it up and see if I can count the turns if necessary.

I guess that you are aware that the unit will not work properly since the
format of the signal was changed several years ago.

Let me know if I can help.

Gordon WA4FJC

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Krick via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 3:41 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Matt Krick dcflux@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10509A antenna specifications?

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make
the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to
get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of
turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an
email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Good Morning Matt, I have a couple of HP 117 units and one loop antenna with the nuvister preamp. I could open it up and see if I can count the turns if necessary. I guess that you are aware that the unit will not work properly since the format of the signal was changed several years ago. Let me know if I can help. Gordon WA4FJC -----Original Message----- From: Matt Krick via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 3:41 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Cc: Matt Krick <dcflux@gmail.com> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10509A antenna specifications? I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the outdoor antenna. I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the PCB. I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 transistors though. I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. Thank you! --Matt _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

MK

Matt Krick

Wed, Mar 1, 2023 10:25 PM

If it is not too much trouble that would be great!

I'd like to see how well the unit works before making modifications to
strip the BPSK.

Since the format WWVB uses looks like it may give 900mS between phase
shifts and that may be enough to not be noticeable on the meter.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 10:16 Gordon Batey via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Good Morning Matt,

I have a couple of HP 117 units and one loop antenna with the nuvister
preamp. I could open it up and see if I can count the turns if
necessary.

I guess that you are aware that the unit will not work properly since the
format of the signal was changed several years ago.

Let me know if I can help.

Gordon WA4FJC

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Krick via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 3:41 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Matt Krick dcflux@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10509A antenna specifications?

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make
the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to
get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of
turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an
email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

If it is not too much trouble that would be great! I'd like to see how well the unit works before making modifications to strip the BPSK. Since the format WWVB uses looks like it may give 900mS between phase shifts and that may be enough to not be noticeable on the meter. On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 10:16 Gordon Batey via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Good Morning Matt, > > I have a couple of HP 117 units and one loop antenna with the nuvister > preamp. I could open it up and see if I can count the turns if > necessary. > > I guess that you are aware that the unit will not work properly since the > format of the signal was changed several years ago. > > Let me know if I can help. > > Gordon WA4FJC > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Krick via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 3:41 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Cc: Matt Krick <dcflux@gmail.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10509A antenna specifications? > > I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the > outdoor antenna. > > I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked > electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the > PCB. > > I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix > 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 > transistors though. > > I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. > > So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to make > the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm to > get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. > > For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a > couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more > detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number of > turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. > > Thank you! > --Matt > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >

PS

paul swed

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 2:03 AM

It effects the 117 I have 2 operational units and a large antenna.
Randomly do to noise and such it will flip phase may stay for a while
holding on and then flip again.
I suppose today you could take readings watch a trend and when it flipped
correct the data.
Good luck
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 8:54 PM Matt Krick via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

If it is not too much trouble that would be great!

I'd like to see how well the unit works before making modifications to
strip the BPSK.

Since the format WWVB uses looks like it may give 900mS between phase
shifts and that may be enough to not be noticeable on the meter.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 10:16 Gordon Batey via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Good Morning Matt,

I have a couple of HP 117 units and one loop antenna with the nuvister
preamp. I could open it up and see if I can count the turns if
necessary.

I guess that you are aware that the unit will not work properly since the
format of the signal was changed several years ago.

Let me know if I can help.

Gordon WA4FJC

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Krick via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 3:41 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Matt Krick dcflux@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10509A antenna specifications?

I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the
outdoor antenna.

I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked
electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the
PCB.

I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix
832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009
transistors though.

I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1.

So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to

make

the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm

to

get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark.

For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a
couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more
detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number

of

turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original.

Thank you!
--Matt

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send

an

email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

It effects the 117 I have 2 operational units and a large antenna. Randomly do to noise and such it will flip phase may stay for a while holding on and then flip again. I suppose today you could take readings watch a trend and when it flipped correct the data. Good luck Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 8:54 PM Matt Krick via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > If it is not too much trouble that would be great! > > I'd like to see how well the unit works before making modifications to > strip the BPSK. > > Since the format WWVB uses looks like it may give 900mS between phase > shifts and that may be enough to not be noticeable on the meter. > > On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 10:16 Gordon Batey via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > > Good Morning Matt, > > > > I have a couple of HP 117 units and one loop antenna with the nuvister > > preamp. I could open it up and see if I can count the turns if > > necessary. > > > > I guess that you are aware that the unit will not work properly since the > > format of the signal was changed several years ago. > > > > Let me know if I can help. > > > > Gordon WA4FJC > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Matt Krick via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 3:41 PM > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > > Cc: Matt Krick <dcflux@gmail.com> > > Subject: [time-nuts] HP 10509A antenna specifications? > > > > I am refurbishing a HP117A VLF comparator and would like to recreate the > > outdoor antenna. > > > > I've cleaned up the A1 module where all of the 4.0uF at 60V caps leaked > > electrolyte damaging the wiring and ate holes in the ground plane on the > > PCB. > > > > I've also made most of the updates to bring the unit up to serial prefix > > 832 from a 512. Can't seem to find a human part number for the 1853-0009 > > transistors though. > > > > I've also got new Nuvistors coming for module A1. > > > > So far my ferrite stick antenna doesn't have enough signal strength to > make > > the meter twitch. But using a function generator it takes about a -80dBm > to > > get the signal strength meter to come to the 10 mark. > > > > For the antenna It looks like the outer structure is just conduit and a > > couple of junction boxes but I would like to know if anyone has more > > detailed specifications of the loops inside the conduit. Such as number > of > > turns and gauge of wire that was used in the original. > > > > Thank you! > > --Matt > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send > an > > email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >

MK

Matt Krick

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 3:11 PM

New tubes in the A1 module got me another 6 dB to get it to -84dBm to bring
the needle to the 10 mark on the signal strength meter.

I also replaced the chokes for the antenna DC filter, one was open
completely and the other two were no where near 1000uH.

New tubes in the A1 module got me another 6 dB to get it to -84dBm to bring the needle to the 10 mark on the signal strength meter. I also replaced the chokes for the antenna DC filter, one was open completely and the other two were no where near 1000uH.