Re: Shakedown cruise- holding tank problem
Marin is concerned about the accidental discharge into the boat of the
tank contents where the discharge (from the tank, not toilet) hose is on
the bottom of the tank with a tee off from that hose, one side leading
to the deck pump out and the other to a large (2-inch) through-hull. I
have no such fears for the following reasons.
I can only note that this is the installation a highly regarded local
boat builder uses in his big-buck sportfishers. Lots of his boats are
used in the charter fishing industry where they want simplicity and no
macerator (or any other type pump, for that matter) for tank discharge.
The tank is only partially below the normal water line and the
through-hull cum-discharge valve is only opened for short periods at sea
eliminating any worries about seawater getting into the people tank. I
know that's not what his concern is, but thought it worth mentioning.
I suppose the plastic tanks with bottom discharge used could have some
integrity problems, but I have heard of none - certainly none of the
problems like folks (including Marin) have reported with leaky metal
tanks. As to the hose used, we are not talking wimpy hose. This is
thick-walled 2-inch diameter stuff with a fiberglass tee. The
through-hull is directly beneath the tank he installed on my boat with
no sideway stress on the hoses to it and the tee making clamping
actually redundant. The hose up to the deck fitting has some curve to
it, but it's large diameter and safe enough. The whole shootin' match
is mounted outboard of the stbd engine and plainly visible every time I
service the engine.
Should any problem develop which obviates the ability to remove contents
from the tank through the normal bottom-mounted discharge of the tank,
the large-diameter tank-level sender plate on top will serve as an
introduction point to the tank for the pump-out hose.
Works for me.
Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB42-295)
Southport, FL
While researching my holding tank issues and alternatives I have
encountered the PURASAN sanitation treatment system from Raritan, similar
and having the same classification as the much discussed Raritan
Lectra/San. The difference is:
From their web site
The Purasan requires the use of added Halogen to the system through a
remote dispenser. The disinfecting chemical cartridges must be replaced
when needed. I should add > ( And can be used in fresh water or by
freshwater flush systems without a special salt tank).<
The Lectra/San (MC) uses the chlorine from salt in water to serve as a
disinfecting agent. Special electrodes send DC power through the salt water
which accomplishes this. Salt can be added in fresh water systems.
Does anyone have any expereince with the Purasan treatment device?
Skooch - Hatteras LRC 42
Chesapeake Bay where a U.S. Coast Guard certified Type I system is allowed
most anywhere.
David Stahl
Beacon Technologies Inc.
Serving The Delaware Valley
Business and Residential Internet Services
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" DAVID@kennett.net
While researching my holding tank issues and alternatives I have
encountered the PURASAN sanitation treatment system from Raritan,
HiHo Poopoids,
If I could piggyback a couple of other questions about the PuraSan:
-
Some catalogs seem to indicate that the PuraSan uses a good deal
less wattage per flush compared to the LectraSan. Is this true,
untrue, or not significant? -
Can the PuraSan be used in salt water (salt water flush)?
-
I did a cursory Google search for the replacement chemical and
found that it seems to be quite expensive. How many flushes do you get
from one cartridge?
Sanitarily yours,
Alex
Alex Hirsekorn wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" DAVID@kennett.net
The PuraSan was actually developed for use on houseboats--those
"floating mobile homes on barge hulls" that litter the fresh water
inland lakes and rivers. Until recently it was only certified for use
with the 3 most popular houseboat toilets, all Raritan: the Crown, Crown
II and Atlantes. It is now certified for use with any MACERATING
electric toilet, but not for use any other type...which rules it out on
boats equipped with manual toilets or VacuFlush.
If I could piggyback a couple of other questions about the PuraSan:
All your questions are answered in the literature and manuals for the
Lectra/San and PuraSan on the Raritan website at
http://www.raritaneng.com ...but I'll save you the trouble...
- Some catalogs seem to indicate that the PuraSan uses a good deal
less wattage per flush compared to the LectraSan. Is this true,
untrue, or not significant?
The PuraSan consumes considerably less power than the Lectra/San:
.3AH/flush vs 1.7 AH/flush for the Lectra/San. (It's the electrode pack
in the L/S that accounts for the difference...the electrodes are big
power hogs.)
- Can the PuraSan be used in salt water (salt water flush)?
Yep...in fresh water--raw or pressurized--and in salt water. However,
sea water mineral buildup in the head intake and tubing to and from the
halogen cartridge can be an issue.
- I did a cursory Google search for the replacement chemical and
found that it seems to be quite expensive. How many flushes do you get
from one cartridge?
It is expensive: about $80 plus HAZMAT shipping surcharge. That HAZMAT
surcharge is the reason almost no one stocks 'em, but only takes orders
for drop-ship from Raritan...paying it on goods inbound for inventory
adds too much to their cost to be able to sell it competitively. It
lasts about 800 flushes max...which sounds like a lot till you do a
little math and discover that's only about 80 days of use for two
people...less if you have guests or additional family.
That cartridge housing must be mounted no lower than 4", no higher than
12" above the toilet bowl, and also must have at least 18" of clearance
above it to allow the tablet to be replaced. Plumbing the cartridge to
the toilet is also a bit complex...in fact, I think y'all need to read
the manual now.
Bottom line: if you're on an inland river, the PuraSan is an ok
device...but if you're in salt water it just doesn't make any sense IMO
to go with a PuraSan instead of a Lectra/San. In fact, I'd go with the
L/S on my own boat even in fresh water and/or with toilets that use
onboard pressurized flush water...it's so much simpler and less
expensive to use and maintain.
--
Peggie
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327
Peggie and Listees,
Thanks a bunch for your freely given info, your truly a princess in my book.
I keep trying to finish this boat project and keep getting farther behind,
when I want to be cruising.
One more short question. Raritan says over and over that one should limit
the discharge hose from the head to 6 feet. If I do that it means two
treatment units with salt tanks and such, that is space I don't have and
money I would rather spend on fuel. If the forward head is rarely used, or
at least occasionally used, can I carefully plumb it downhill, and use just
one treatment unit. I can be careful and flush the long run after each
occasional guest. And I don't mind replacing the hose every five years of
so? I've found a great place for one unit close to the most frequently used
head, two is gonna take thinking outside the box.
Finally and tongue in cheek, lets not be a houseboat snob, "littering <snip>
the lakes and river" Boats are boats and I like them all. I went up the
Mississippi with a friend for a few hundred miles on one and had a great
time. Wish I could remember the head that we used. But I sure remember the
trip, don't tell the admiral, it was a different life. :)
Poor little Skooch with a small engine room and only 42 feet
Worton Creek MD
<One more short question. Raritan says over and over that one should limit
the discharge hose from the head to 6 feet.>
Yipes!! We must be living or eating right. Swan Songs 1 1/2" discharge hose
is almost 30' from the back of the Raritan Atlantes outlet to the seacock.
Four years of living aboard hasn't presented any issues with this system. So
I would think YMMV about the "6 foot rule". We always double cycle on #2 and
single cycle the rest of the time with it set on about 2 quarts of flush
water.
Dave & Nancy
Swan Song
Roughwater 58
Tortola, BVI
David wrote:
One more short question. Raritan says over and over that one should limit
the discharge hose from the head to 6 feet.
That's because that's as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of
time 99.9999% of people will keep their finger on the flush button or
pump a manual toilet...or a VacuFlush pump will move it...and waste that
doesn't make it all the way into the treatment unit doesn't get treated.
You can fudge that a foot IF you religiously flush longer, but no further.
If I do that it means two
treatment units with salt tanks and such, that is space I don't have and
money I would rather spend on fuel. If the forward head is rarely
used, or
at least occasionally used, can I carefully plumb it downhill, and
use just
one treatment unit.
How far would the forward head be from the L/S?
I can be careful and flush the long run after each
occasional guest. And I don't mind replacing the hose every five years of
so? I've found a great place for one unit close to the most frequently used
head, two is gonna take thinking outside the box.
INside the box as far as the installation instructions are concerned,
actually.
If you can't put the L/S within at least 7 of both toilets, the smartest
thing you can do is put only the master head on the L/S and leave the
guest head on the holding tank...'cuz guests cause 90% of sanitation
system problems..and if you put a Lectra/San further than 7' from the
guest toilet, you're just asking for trouble: a toilet that's bound to
have enough problems just due to lack of use, used by landlubbers,
getting up in the middle of the night--or just first thing in the
morning--who'll you'll expect to flush the d'd thing far enough to get
the waste all the way to the treatment unit without putting so much into
it that it discharge untreated waste. You'll need the tank anyway
if/when you visit any "no discharge" waters...and if plumb the master
only to the L/S and the guest toilet only to the tank, you'll eliminate
a bunch of y-valves and other convoluted plumbing. Just lock the door
the master and use the forward head whenever you have to hold. Better
that you should be slightly inconvenienced with a couple of systems that
actually have a prayer of giving you trouble-free service than trying to
make the unworkable work.
--
Peggie
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=&page=1
Dave Cooper wrote:
Yipes!! We must be living or eating right. Swan Songs 1 1/2" discharge hose
is almost 30' from the back of the Raritan Atlantes outlet to the seacock.
Four years of living aboard hasn't presented any issues with this system. So
I would think YMMV about the "6 foot rule". We always double cycle on #2 and
single cycle the rest of the time with it set on about 2 quarts of flush
water.
It doesn't matter what you're eating...its' how far ANY toilet can push
bowl contents. And with a 30' run from the toilet to the thru-hull, your
head discharge hose always remains full...'cuz 30' of 1/5" hose holds
several gallons--not quarts, GALLONS--of liquid...so each flush only
pushes an amount equal to what's leaving the bowl a little further down
the hose and eventually out the thru-hull. Gravity can help some, but
only if the seacock is open.
With a long run, gravity can cause more problems than it solves when
flushing into a Lectra/San because the max volume the Lectra/San can
accept is 1.5 gallons...more than that pushes untreated waste overboard.
It's people who don't think it's necessary to follow installation,
operation and/or maintenance instructions who have the most problems
with equipment...and who also seem to be the most vocal about how it
doesn't work as advertised.
--
Peggie
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=&page=1
And while nobody ask me, its folks that won't follow instructions,
installation and/or maintenance and therefore reduces/defeats the
effectiveness of waste disposal systems that gives the environmentalists
fodder to feed the politicians when requesting more "No Discharge Zones".
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peggie Hall" peg.hall@sbcglobal.net
It's people who don't think it's necessary to follow installation,
operation and/or maintenance instructions who have the most problems
with equipment...and who also seem to be the most vocal about how it
doesn't work as advertised.