This was discussed at length in December.
http://forum.openscad.org/Moving-the-forum-to-something-more-modern-td30919.html

About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum. If you use a good enough email client, and configure it correctly, then an email client is just as a good as a forum web site for following conversations, replying and posting. The added benefit is that you have a single integrated interface for multiple different mailing lists/forums.

Not everybody wants to invest in using and configuring an email client to work this way, but those of us who do don't want to lose the ability to interact with the openscad community using email. So, any modern forum platform we move to should have high quality mailing list integration.

Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong. Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration with Discourse is not possible.

Finding an acceptable replacement for the current forum software is an open issue.

• IMO Google Groups works, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in using it.
• Zulip was mentioned in the previous discussion. It is a well known modern forum with the correct data model, but although it has "email integration", it doesn't seem to have high quality mailing list integration. There is an open issue for Zulip-Mailman integration: https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/959
• HyperKitty seems to meet our requirements (eg, https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/). It is a "modern forum" web user interface for mailman. It is GPL free software from the FSF and Fedora uses it. I just found it while composing this message, and I don't have experience using it.

Doug Moen.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Vigardo wrote:

Maybe not HyperKitty. It is plain text only: no rich text, markdown, or embedded images.
https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/225

I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021, 15:33 Doug Moen, doug@moens.org wrote:

First of all, thanks for discussing this topic with me again :-). I´ve
checked the link to December´s thread that doug.moen pointed out and found
it very interesting. Please, let me comment here your contributions.

doug.moen

"About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum."

I´m sorry, but I disagree. I think this fact is does not fully validate that
the current Forum manager is the preferred option for 2/3 of the users. This
simply says that 2/3 of the users prefer one of the two alternatives for
such current (old) manager software. Perhaps if they tested a newer
alternative would change their preferences, don´t you think?

"Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong.
Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be
threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration
with Discourse is not possible."

If I understood you well, I would not say that the data model is wrong. In
all Forums I´ve used you need a subject topic and the replies must follow
that subject. I really do not understand why a mailing list is necessary.
Almost any modern Forum software also should provide digests to be aware
about what topics are trendy, and also can send you emails about new
messages in the threads you´ve participated.

acwest

"I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well"

This may be a good reason, but I don´t know why this should also apply here.
Past events do not guarantee future events. :-) I think that OpenSCAD is a
good free tool that is very attractive for makers, engineers and DIY people.

I want to remark here some extracts that best reflect my opinion from the
December thread about this topic

tp3 and MichaelAtOz say that "Nabble might be dying any time. This was
announced some time ago, but did luckily not happen yet.". The former also
evidences that Discourse would be a good alternative...

Furthermore, I totally agree with xgarb. He exposed what I think is
another key motivation to change Forum manager software since I experienced
exactly the same frustration upon subscribing myself to this mailing list:

"My experience of joining this forum went something like this:

1. Read notice about joining three times, 2) Sign up to forum, 3) Confirm,
2. Sign up to Mail list
3. Confirm, 6) Read notice about joining again, 7) Send manual request, 8)
   Go to bed
4. Wake up to 10 emails I'm not interested in, 10) See accepted message, 11)
   Work, 12) Get more emails
5. Write my question, 14) See my question showing but with just urls for
   the images
   Discourse would be:
6. Create account or use social login, 2) Confirm, 3) Write question
   (including pasting screen captures directly)"

to maintain a good health community), such an old Forum manager would make
him/her consider whether to join or not to join this forum since it gives
the impression that it may be discontinued very soon... I´m afraid that this
was exactly what I thought a few weeks ago when I joined. Fortunately, upon
a couple of posts I´ve realized that I was quite wrong and that this
community is very active and responsive (thanks all!).

Thanks again and sorry for the long post!

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

I know I would be gone if the mailing list wasn't good enough. Forums
require you to choose to go to the forum, choose a top to read, etc. A
miasling list, you just read messages as they come in. I have way too many
things I am following to put that much attention into any one thing

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:21 PM Vigardo bioramon@gmail.com wrote:

Please retain the mail list format, it requires the least effort to
interact with.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 07:21 Vigardo bioramon@gmail.com wrote:

I follow mail lists because precisely because it is low effort.
Move this to a forum and I won't follow it.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:31 PM A. Craig West acraigwest@gmail.com wrote:

I’m on mailing lists since... 1986. They work.
Various web forums get in my way and most often go obsolete.
/mikael

Sent from a mobile device.

On 22 Jan 2021, at 23:54, softfoot@hotmail.com wrote:


EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from outside of the University of Limerick. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's email address and know the content is safe.

I feel much the same, a mailing list is much easier to manage from my point of view.

Dave

On 22/01/2021 23:36, Rick wrote:
I follow mail lists because precisely because it is low effort.
Move this to a forum and I won't follow it.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:31 PM A. Craig West <acraigwest@gmail.commailto:acraigwest@gmail.com> wrote:
I know I would be gone if the mailing list wasn't good enough. Forums require you to choose to go to the forum, choose a top to read, etc. A miasling list, you just read messages as they come in. I have way too many things I am following to put that much attention into any one thing

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:21 PM Vigardo <bioramon@gmail.commailto:bioramon@gmail.com> wrote:
First of all, thanks for discussing this topic with me again :-). I´ve
checked the link to December´s thread that doug.moen pointed out and found
it very interesting. Please, let me comment here your contributions.

doug.moen

"About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum."

I´m sorry, but I disagree. I think this fact is does not fully validate that
the current Forum manager is the preferred option for 2/3 of the users. This
simply says that 2/3 of the users prefer one of the two alternatives for
such current (old) manager software. Perhaps if they tested a newer
alternative would change their preferences, don´t you think?

"Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong.
Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be
threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration
with Discourse is not possible."

If I understood you well, I would not say that the data model is wrong. In
all Forums I´ve used you need a subject topic and the replies must follow
that subject. I really do not understand why a mailing list is necessary.
Almost any modern Forum software also should provide digests to be aware
about what topics are trendy, and also can send you emails about new
messages in the threads you´ve participated.

acwest

"I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well"

This may be a good reason, but I don´t know why this should also apply here.
Past events do not guarantee future events. :-) I think that OpenSCAD is a
good free tool that is very attractive for makers, engineers and DIY people.

I want to remark here some extracts that best reflect my opinion from the
December thread about this topic

tp3 and MichaelAtOz say that "Nabble might be dying any time. This was
announced some time ago, but did luckily not happen yet.". The former also
evidences that Discourse would be a good alternative...

Furthermore, I totally agree with xgarb. He exposed what I think is
another key motivation to change Forum manager software since I experienced
exactly the same frustration upon subscribing myself to this mailing list:

"My experience of joining this forum went something like this:

1. Read notice about joining three times, 2) Sign up to forum, 3) Confirm,
2. Sign up to Mail list
3. Confirm, 6) Read notice about joining again, 7) Send manual request, 8)
   Go to bed
4. Wake up to 10 emails I'm not interested in, 10) See accepted message, 11)
   Work, 12) Get more emails
5. Write my question, 14) See my question showing but with just urls for
   the images
   Discourse would be:
6. Create account or use social login, 2) Confirm, 3) Write question
   (including pasting screen captures directly)"

to maintain a good health community), such an old Forum manager would make
him/her consider whether to join or not to join this forum since it gives
the impression that it may be discontinued very soon... I´m afraid that this
was exactly what I thought a few weeks ago when I joined. Fortunately, upon
a couple of posts I´ve realized that I was quite wrong and that this
community is very active and responsive (thanks all!).

Thanks again and sorry for the long post!

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.orgmailto:Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.orgmailto:Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.orgmailto:Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from outside of the University of Limerick. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's email address and know the content is safe.

OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

On Fri Jan 22 15:30:08 PST 2021 acraigwest@gmail.com said:

Exactly! There are some products that only use Forums.  I ONLY use the Forum to ask a specific question, and check occaisionally for answers. I do NOT bother to browse the Forum daily to see whats going on.  That wastes FAR too much time.
Email lists I can skim through very quickly, and reply to the occaisional post quickly.

--

Try my Sensible Email package!  https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/

I agree: without the email option, I would be gone.

Jon

On 1/22/2021 6:36 PM, Rick wrote:

More information about Discourse.

It is possible to use Discourse to create a read-only mirror of a mailing list.
<rubytalk.org> is a Discourse mirror of the ruby-talk mailing list.
Compared to <forum.openscad.org>, <rubytalk.org> is:

• Readonly. You must join the mailing list and use email to post.
• Registration is simpler (you only subscribe to the mailing list, you don't also have to register with the forum.)
• Nicer looking interface, continuous scrolling, more advanced search features.

How the mailing list maps to Discourse:

• The Discourse category "ruby-talk" is the mailing list.
• Topics within the category correspond to email subject lines.
• Posts within a topic correspond to mailing list posts.

It is possible to set up a readonly discourse mirror of the openscad mailing list without disturbing the existing infrastructure. That would be the first step in a migration away from Nabble.

It still seems impossible to set up a two-way link between a mailing list and a Discourse category. I found a discussion on Wikimedia Space where they discuss their goal of being able to emulate a mailing list using Discourse. Their plan would involve migrating all the old mailing list posts into Discourse and shutting down the mailing list. Quotes:

I see they ran some experiments late 2018/early 2019 to try and configure Discourse to work this way, but then the initiative stalled and later the project was shut down.

On 1/23/21 12:45 PM, Jordan Brown wrote:

And it is also worth noting that this mailing list tends to involve a
more technical level than many who might be members at Thingiverse, etc.
will want/need.

I freely admit, I keep all my email for this topic in its own folder and
plan eventually to review each post/topic for the methods I am not (yet)
ready to try. I spend almost all my time lurking, while also usually
struggling to follow ALL the logic of the back and forth questions and
proposed answers.

I am very happy doing things the way I am, lurking, reading the "pushed"
posts (so I don't have to seek them out at the forum), trying out some
of the proposed code and occasionally adding my basic-user point of view
into the discussion.

I appreciate the expertise of those who DO routinely contribute
here...along with the typically helpful replies to those, like me, who
are less expert.

I suspect that the higher technical level of the mailing list is correlated with the list having a higher proportion of experienced old-timers who may be more comfortable with email.

Get rid of the mailing list and a swath of those old timers may disappear.

This discussion thread, and the "modern forum" discussion thread from December, both began with a request to switch to Discourse. Some OpenSCAD users want a forum that "looks and feels modern", and while I don't know what that means, it seems that Discourse satisfies the requirement. So let's consider Discourse.

Somebody could create a Discourse forum with a read-write "General" category, plus a read-only "Mailing-List" category that is synced with the mailing list. This would satisfy the needs of two groups of people: those who won't use a mailing list, and those who won't use a forum. Mirroring the mailing list in Discourse provides a nicer web UI for browsing the archives than what we currently have.

Although this is a compromise, I feel it is better than getting rid of the mailing list, which is what some people are suggesting.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, at 2:20 PM, Troberg wrote:

I personally don't want that. The email notification feature is quite unpleasant on the forums that I've tried. Quite different from the user experience of a mailing list, which is what I want.

Doug:

Are you suggesting a trial run of a Discourse forum, to see how it goes,
and then maybe switching over?  Or a parallel Discourse forum that
people could use.

I personally am a fan of function over form.  Which means email over
"modern".  I have a young friend who recently said that she had
forgotten that she even had an email account.  She texted someone to
give me a message rather than emailing me directly, even though she and
I have emailed at times.  I wonder if that generation will survive.

Jon

On 1/23/2021 4:03 PM, Doug Moen wrote:

I take part in a few Discourse fora which send me an email when somebody
adds to a thread and then I have to click on a link to go to the forum to
read it. So basically more effort to read but just as many emails. So what
does that achieve? Better to get an email with the message in it and
not have to go visit the forum. The only use I find for the OpenSCAD forum
is to find an old post when I have deleted the email. So it is a good
archive.

On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 at 21:20, jon jon@jonbondy.com wrote:

On 01-23-2021 4:03 PM, Doug Moen wrote:

Unless the mailing-list people want to write something.  Personally, I
like things just the way they are..  Just because something is "modern"
doesn't necessarily make it better (IMNSHO).

            - Michele

I agree.  The web hosted folks want us to go to their servers, while
there is no need if the content is in the email itself.  The Discourse
approach sounds like it takes a lot more time than the current system. 
So much for "modern".

Is there any up side to those systems?  I mean, other than that they are
"modern"?

On 1/23/2021 4:32 PM, nop head wrote:

I believe part of the concern about the future of this mailing list / forum
is that the existing forum platform is expected to go away, so keeping
things "just the way they are" is probably impossible.  We will have to
migrate to an alternative at some point.

Michele Denber wrote

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

I am suggesting to run the Discourse forum and the mailing list in parallel indefinitely, and see how it goes. Use Discourse as the web interface for reading and searching both discussion lists. Keep the mailing list running until nobody uses it anymore, but then still keep the archives online. And if nobody uses the Discourse forum, or it falls into disuse, then we didn't actually need it.

It's not my first choice. I'd prefer a forum that is better than Nabble and has excellent mailing list integration, so that we don't split our participants into two different universes. The forum should be isomorphic to the mailing list, just two different interfaces to the same data. However, I don't know if such a solution would satisfy the people who want a "modern" forum. For example, Discourse has social features: if your posts get enough "likes" then you earn "badges". I think this is horrible, and anyway it won't work over a mailing list. But maybe this kind of thing is part of what the people requesting a "modern" forum are asking for?

It's hard to find an open source solution that is both an excellent forum and an excellent mailing list. Maybe there is a shortage of developers who value both interfaces, to work on such a thing? The people who develop Discourse are upfront about their hatred of email, and lack of interest in spending developer time on better mailing list integration. The people who develop Mailman characterize HyperKitty as "awesome" and "highly recommended" but even I can see that it sucks compared to Discourse.

So I'm suggesting a hybrid solution.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, at 4:19 PM, jon wrote:

Troberg wrote

This perfectly illustrates why I decided to post this thread. In my opinion,
OpenSCAD needs to capture the attention of new users... which would mainly
be "millennials" or even younger. I´m pretty sure they would identify this
forum as old. For example, there may be tons of young people (students of
engineering, applied sciences, informatics, etc) that buy their new 3D
printers and want to create new stuff. OpenSCAD should be as amenable to
them as possible, don´t you think?

In addition, there may be many users that do not interact just because of
the more than 10 steps one has to follow to configure current mailing list
and forum. Also they may think this would become soon obsolete in favor of
other non-coding approaches to create parametric objects.

doug.moen wrote

You´re right... what is modern forum? This is not a very clear concept :-)
Perhaps this example would help to illustrate what it looks like:
https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/angular-cross-sections-in-karamba/102476/2 As
you can see, images are seamlessly integrated within the posts and shared
links have a counter that indicates how many times it has been accessed, and
some other fancy things that facilitate the communication (which as you know
it is not that easy using plain email text).

In this respect, I think that McNeel company has taken their time to
carefully select Discourse as their Forums platform. Note that thousands of
users of Rhinoceros, Grasshopper, and many FEA and CAD plugins for
parametric engineering and architecture actively contribute via such forum
platform. I think this is a quite clear indicative about where to go next.
But of course, this is just my minority opinion.

But please, do not misunderstand me. I fully respect the preferences and
opinion of the majority, which undoubtedly prefers a mailing list
https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-LK6WQBX57/ (thanks
a lot JordanBrown!). However, these results may be biased by the fact that
only votes who reads this mailing list and forum. We do not know what
potential and long-term users would prefer. Only a detailed survey, that it
is out of our scope, would adequately answer this question.

An important thing to take into account in this discussion are OpenSCAD
alternatives. The competence interest, for example in FreeCAD is raising
compared to OpenSCAD, at least as judged by Google Trends:
http://forum.openscad.org/file/t3088/Interest_Trends_in_OpenSCAD_vs_FreeCAD.png

Are the OpenSCAD number of downloads and/or the number of new
forum/mail-list users also decreasing? If so, improving community
interaction would contribute favorably to increase usage and participation.
Perhaps some monthly or yearly figures about this would shed some light to
select the best way to go.

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

If having a "modern" place for the younger folks and an email place for
the older folks is feasible, then I think that would be great.

Jon

On 1/23/2021 5:38 PM, Vigardo wrote:

doug.moen wrote

I think this is more or less what happened with Grasshopper forum before it
was integrated into McNeel´s Discourse. This is the old version that remains
as source of knowledge: https://www.grasshopper3d.com/forum

doug.moen wrote

You´re right, but a "modern" forum also offers other much more useful stuff.
For example, as you type a new subject in a new post, it automatically
searches for coincidences in the database to avoid duplicates (as I did
creating a new thread that overlapped the December´s discussion :-) It also
alerts you when you´ve unread messages and keeps everything tidy without any
effort.

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Michele Denber wrote:

No, the proposal is to leave the mailing list in place exactly as it is, and mirror the content onto the Discourse server. The Discourse server can be ignored by people who only want to interact with the mailing list.

There would, in addition, be a Discourse forum that is separate from the mailing list. So you won't see that content on the mailing list, just as you don't see the OpenSCAD discussions on Reddit or Thingiverse unless you visit those web forums (or use RSS I guess).

seems clear that it's far more active than either of the others.

Mailing-list 830 subscribers, the hard-core ;)

Forum 1785 Members (tho since a Nabble change ~2y ago, those not on the Mailing-list can't post)

and 2448 Registered users (confirmed emails), and 'all users' 2907.

I doubt many people bother to remove their accounts on the Forum.

I see intermittent Mailing-list unsubscribes.

Mailing-list posts:

Dec 561

Nov 365

Oct 340

Sep  98

Aug 228

Jul 260

Avg 309 ~10/d

Forum, started 20091201, 4072 days, 3806 topics (no easy way to count posts), 597427 views (avg 146
views/d)

From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.openscad.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Brown
Sent: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 04:46
To: OpenSCAD general discussion; Vigardo
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Does OpenSCAD deserve a modern Forum platform?

On the IRC chat, user ali1234 notes that the OpenSCAD forum on Thingiverse has over 6000 members
and the subreddit has 1500.

The Thingiverse group has about 30 posts in 2021.  (That's across three topics.)

It's harder to measure the reddit traffic (because it doesn't say at the top level when the most
recent comment on a thread was), but it looks like there's in the neighborhood of 100 there.

My mailbox says that this mailing list has had 305 messages.

I have no idea how many members the mailing list and its associated forum have (Michael?), but it
seems clear that it's far more active than either of the others.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

The problem with Groups.IO is the cost. Michael said 3000 users.
At the Premium tier (30GB storage), that is $150/month.
At the Enterprise tier (1TB storage), that is $600/month.
Reference: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/27191

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, at 6:42 PM, John Lussmyer wrote:

On Sat Jan 23 17:04:21 PST 2021 doug@moens.org said:

Admittedly, SparrowEV is small, and I paid for 1 year to get it transfered from Yahoo.
Now running on the Free offering.

--

Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...

That was an interesting graph. I suspect it is probably roughly in
parallel with the rise and fall of numbers of 3-D printing machines
leaving China. In other words the decline in OpenSCAD queries or
searches may be because the number of naive users are declining and
other alternative software emerges.

However the the other point that Vigardo makes was about revitalising
the interest in OpenSCAD and is quite relevant from my point of view.
The big question is "why look for a modern interface?" in the first
place. Are there any huge advantages we may have overlooked?

Let me preface my comments below with a thank you to all the people who
have worked so hard to make openSCAD what it is. I appreciate it greatly
and do not want to offend people with might seem like an opportunistic
and off-topic comment, but my cynical mind works like this.

For a language that can't do X=X+1, and remains in the mind-set of
functional languages, then I would suggest an old fashioned email based
communication is quite appropriate. I have seen many times people asking
the experts if there is a command that can find a bounding box for an
object they have designed, and requesting other features that require
almost a total rewrite of OpenSCAD's underlying code and structure to
achieve those features (especially how it handles variables). I don't
think that is likely to be forthcoming soon as the people who are
currently working on it have probably already expired their enormous
energies required to take on such a huge task, just to get us where we
are now. Plus the people who know OpenSCAD best will also be the ones
that have invested the most time in its current form and would not want
to break a lot of their code and designs.

Where is this energy to redesign the OpenSCAD engine going to come from?
Most likely from new recruits who could take OpenSCAD through a major
Python style redesign from 2.X to 3.X. Will an email platform attract
these people (I find it much more convenient myself than the Forum
(being a grumpy old man, though this is not an essential trait))?

If we are interested in keeping OpenSCAD a vital, evolving language,
then taking note and listening to the younger contributors should be
given more weight. being able to transfer their skills directly to a
Discorse style forum may just help them constructively join in. (Who'd
have thought thumb typing would have ever become mainstream?).

Accommodating their interests is in our best interest in the long run. A
modern interface to this extremely valuable resource could be a major
upgrade, and lead to others later on eg major revisions.

Cheers, Rob

On 24/1/21 9:38 am, Vigardo wrote:

--

Rob Ward
Lake Tyers Beach, 3909
Lake Tyers Beach Website http://www.laketyersbeach.net.au
Ubuntu Mate - A great OS https://ubuntu-mate.org/

Troberg wrote

Just for to test this hypothesis, I'll ask people on the OpenSCAD why they
are there instead of the mailing list. It would be interesting to hear their
opinion.

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

Troberg wrote

Just for to test this hypothesis, I'll ask people on the OpenSCAD subreddit
why they are there instead of the mailing list. It would be interesting to
hear their opinion.

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

On 1/23/2021 2:38 PM, Vigardo wrote:

That postulates that it's necessary to "configure the forum".  As far as
I know, I've never touched the forum.  (Well, until today :-) 
Subscribing to the mailing list is (from openscad.org) three clicks,
typing your e-mail address, and another click.  Then click on the link
in the registration message.

A very real possibility.  (But not this thread.)

I believe that for most mail users, images are seamlessly integrated. 
What doesn't end up seamlessly integrated in the e-mail feed is, I
believe, the images that originate at the forum software.  (I just
checked, and one of the messages I recently sent with an image in it is
shown properly on the forum.)

So I have a different-ish question.  There are at least three
alternative OpenSCAD fora:  the Thingiverse group, the subreddit, and
the Facebook page.  Why do forum-lovers not find those to be acceptable?

JordanBrown wrote

The Forum posts used to do inline images, and other Nabble Fora do support
them,
but I suspect they are not types with an integrated external Mailing-list.
I believe it changed when Nabble only instantiated the posts after getting
them
back from the Mailing-list, I believe that was intended to fight Spam.

If there are any Mailman V2 specialists out there, perhaps you could assist.

OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything,  or if I've done something stupid...

• on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; to the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

[ Test message ]

JordanBrown wrote

Testing posting images from the forum...
First test:  can't just paste an image.

Saving the image as a file and [Insert Image]...
http://forum.openscad.org/file/t1912/deleteme.png
Doesn't show the image, just adds an XML-style tag.
But shows it OK in preview.

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

acwest wrote

I get the emails, and if any of them look interesting enough, I go to the
forum to read the thread, and to possibly comment. I have sent emails to
comment, but only a very few. I have no problem dealing with fora, and if I
could only have one or the other, I would choose the forum every time. I
would also like to say that I am no millennial, having built my first
computer in 1976, 10 years after getting into the computer field as a
technician.

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Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

Troberg wrote

OK, here's the result:
https://www.reddit.com/r/openscad/comments/l3ybcl/openscad_mailing_list/

Some interesting points, draw your own conclusions.

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Sure sounds like if we ask on a forum, people want a forum.  If we ask
on a mailing list, people want a mailing list.

On 1/26/21 5:29 AM, Troberg wrote:

On 1/26/2021 3:29 AM, Troberg wrote:

One thing that I thought interesting was the repeated comment that they
liked the "one stop shopping" aspect of reddit, that they didn't have to
visit a separate forum.  That's the exact reason why I prefer a mailing
list - it feeds into my primary "communications hub".

I asked earlier, but didn't get any responses, perhaps because it was at
the bottom of a longer message:  Why don't forum fans use the subreddit,
the Thingiverse group, or the Facebook page?  What is it that they lack
that you want?

OpenSCAD mailing list-2 wrote

True, but the reasons are still interesting.

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JordanBrown wrote

I don't really get that. I have 50 tabs open in my browser anyway, one more
or less does not matter.

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Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

Am I missing something ? From what I can see of the Facebook page it has about 10 posts and the newest is 5 years old.  If I hit Community I get a few more recent posts but I can not see anything worth following.

A quick look at the Reddit site was enough to put me off.  Far too many Adverts - ignoring that the right hand half of the page is taken up with Adverts that sit there flashing at you - there are also far too may false entries, embedded Adverts.

I like a "text with occasional images” forum that occupies the entire web page and not an “image server with some occasional text” (often aimed at mobile phone users) that takes ages to render properly as it slowly loads even more Adverts. Yes I know I can switch classic mode on, and yes I do run the occasional advert blocker, I have a piHole sitting next to the router.

Just how do I search through the complete history ?

What I want is a well organised, easy to search, easy to follow, easy to ignore threads, Advert free tool.  What that is I do not mind, as I do not have the skills to offer to help, I will have to take what I am given.

Given a free choice I prefer a structured set of forums (fora?) with defined sections (e.g. bug reports, new releases, feature requests, general, getting started, even a "what I printed” section (separate from the real business), some good pinned topics/help up front in each and a bloody good search engine.

The biggest problem I see with this thread is the “Someone should” line.  I think it unlikely that “someone” will come from the forum community if only because most of the members will recognise their lack of knowledge of setting up the newer tools and are invested in either writing the code or running the forum and unlikely to have the time or desire to learn yet another skill.

cheers
BobC

On 1/26/2021 12:11 PM, Bob Carter wrote:

Yes.  I included it only because Facebook is generally a major player,
an "everybody uses Facebook, right?" choice.  (It happens that I don't,
but I recognize that I'm somewhat unusual.)

Yep.  I get the impression that Michael manages the forum because, well,
somebody has to, and that he doesn't want to spend any more on it than
he must.

If somebody else wants to set up a forum somewhere that can do
bidirectional integration with an existing mailing list, I expect that
it wouldn't be a problem to get it hooked up to the mailing list - and
if it works out, the old forum could be decommissioned.  (Not that I'm
the person who would make such a decision.)

caggius wrote

Not really, the big problem with "just do it" is paying for hosting.
Installing one of the most popular forums is more or less a
"next-next-next-finish", then plop in a logo image thing.

It's also about "not stealing the official mailing lists thunder". The user
base isn't that big, no need to split it with an unofficial forum.

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Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

My main reason for using the list is that the forum software does not
work well for me. I need to use a special bookmark to be able to log in,
and when I post something I get a warning that I am not on the list. In
fact, I receive most messages twice because of this nonsensical warning
(stangely enough, not all messages).

A workable forum would be in the same "communications hub" (thunderbird
in my case) if it features an RSS feed. Yes, I would need to log in into
the forum to post or respond, but I do not post that often.

If the group would use a working forum, I would definitely use it.

Am Fri, 22 Jan 2021 11:07:19 -0700 (MST)
schrieb Vigardo bioramon@gmail.com:

Mails are my preferred medium of communication.
As long as I can receive the contributions as plain text mails, I see
no reason to log-in into a forum. The only exception for me would be
intelligent software to search the online archives. But so far I
haven't found anything like it anywhere.
It may be that I'm just too stupid when searching.

My two cent.

Peter

xgarb wrote

Does it require an app to use it? If so, I'm pretty sure that would be a
deal breaker for a lot of people. I know it would be for me.

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Discourse works just fine in a web browser.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021, at 4:53 PM, lar3ry wrote: