I found a application note that shows how to make your own double balanced mixer. http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-1100EN Brian - KD4FM

Hi If you dig into the back issues of Ham Radio magazine, there are some good articles that get into a lot more detail than that app note does. I suspect that there are articles in the other mags as well. It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. Bob On Mar 27, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Brian Kirby wrote: > I found a application note that shows how to make your own double balanced mixer. > > http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-1100EN > > Brian - KD4FM > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic > diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. Rumours are that the famous HP10514 is made from 4 discrete hand selected diodes. If you have thousands of diodes to select from building your own mixer may give sense. Best regards Ulrich Bangert > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com > [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Camp > Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Marz 2010 15:34 > An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Balanced Mixer App Note > > > Hi > > If you dig into the back issues of Ham Radio magazine, there > are some good articles that get into a lot more detail than > that app note does. I suspect that there are articles in the > other mags as well. > > It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic > diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. > > Bob > > > On Mar 27, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Brian Kirby wrote: > > > I found a application note that shows how to make your own double > > balanced mixer. > > > > http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-1100EN > > > > Brian - KD4FM > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Hi The article I'm thinking about goes into all the nasty details of selecting and sorting discrete diodes to make mixers. I seem to recall the first sort was for voltage matching between individual diodes. Bob On Mar 27, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Ulrich Bangert wrote: >> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic >> diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. > > Rumours are that the famous HP10514 is made from 4 discrete hand selected > diodes. If you have thousands of diodes to select from building your own > mixer may give sense. > > Best regards > Ulrich Bangert > >> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- >> Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com >> [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Camp >> Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Marz 2010 15:34 >> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Balanced Mixer App Note >> >> >> Hi >> >> If you dig into the back issues of Ham Radio magazine, there >> are some good articles that get into a lot more detail than >> that app note does. I suspect that there are articles in the >> other mags as well. >> >> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic >> diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. >> >> Bob >> >> >> On Mar 27, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Brian Kirby wrote: >> >>> I found a application note that shows how to make your own double >>> balanced mixer. >>> >>> http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-1100EN >>> >>> Brian - KD4FM >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Ulrich Bangert wrote: >> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic >> diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. >> > > Rumours are that the famous HP10514 is made from 4 discrete hand selected > diodes. If you have thousands of diodes to select from building your own > mixer may give sense. > Well, the HP10514 does have 4 individual diodes. Selection is certainly being done. Using selection for other home-built stuff is done regularly in the Synth-DIY world, so it is not too hard to do. Modern mixers use either the same die or at last dies from the same place of the wafer to accomplish close matching. Cheers, Magnus

Hi You often see reels of parts on the auction sites at crazy prices. Somebody scrapped out a through hole pick and place loader and is selling off the inventory that was still in place. I've often though the one could get lucky and find a reel of rational diodes without spending a lot of money on them. Setting up to do the basic sort is definitely "basement compatible" sort of stuff. The tail end of the process would be to drop candidate quads into a fixture and see how they actually do in a real mixer. Still something you could do in the basement. The transformers you would wind are going to be a lot bigger than the ones MiniCircuits uses. I don't think that would be a problem in any most time nut basement settings. Bob On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > Ulrich Bangert wrote: >>> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. >> >> Rumours are that the famous HP10514 is made from 4 discrete hand selected >> diodes. If you have thousands of diodes to select from building your own >> mixer may give sense. >> > Well, the HP10514 does have 4 individual diodes. Selection is certainly being done. > > Using selection for other home-built stuff is done regularly in the Synth-DIY world, so it is not too hard to do. Modern mixers use either the same die or at last dies from the same place of the wafer to accomplish close matching. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

The potential advantage is that a typical 10514 using discrete diodes is about 6dB quieter than a typical RPD-1 using a monolithic quad in the flicker noise region. Bruce Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > You often see reels of parts on the auction sites at crazy prices. Somebody scrapped out a through hole pick and place loader and is selling off the inventory that was still in place. I've often though the one could get lucky and find a reel of rational diodes without spending a lot of money on them. > > Setting up to do the basic sort is definitely "basement compatible" sort of stuff. The tail end of the process would be to drop candidate quads into a fixture and see how they actually do in a real mixer. Still something you could do in the basement. > > The transformers you would wind are going to be a lot bigger than the ones MiniCircuits uses. I don't think that would be a problem in any most time nut basement settings. > > Bob > > On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > > >> Ulrich Bangert wrote: >> >>>> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. >>>> >>> Rumours are that the famous HP10514 is made from 4 discrete hand selected >>> diodes. If you have thousands of diodes to select from building your own >>> mixer may give sense. >>> >>> >> Well, the HP10514 does have 4 individual diodes. Selection is certainly being done. >> >> Using selection for other home-built stuff is done regularly in the Synth-DIY world, so it is not too hard to do. Modern mixers use either the same die or at last dies from the same place of the wafer to accomplish close matching. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >

Hi It should be easier to DC screen individual diodes for flicker noise than RF test full mixers.. That of course *assumes* that there's a correlation between baseband and RF. Bob On Mar 27, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote: > The potential advantage is that a typical 10514 using discrete diodes is about 6dB quieter than a typical RPD-1 using a monolithic quad in the flicker noise region. > > Bruce > > Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> You often see reels of parts on the auction sites at crazy prices. Somebody scrapped out a through hole pick and place loader and is selling off the inventory that was still in place. I've often though the one could get lucky and find a reel of rational diodes without spending a lot of money on them. >> >> Setting up to do the basic sort is definitely "basement compatible" sort of stuff. The tail end of the process would be to drop candidate quads into a fixture and see how they actually do in a real mixer. Still something you could do in the basement. >> >> The transformers you would wind are going to be a lot bigger than the ones MiniCircuits uses. I don't think that would be a problem in any most time nut basement settings. >> >> Bob >> >> On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: >> >> >>> Ulrich Bangert wrote: >>> >>>>> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. >>>>> >>>> Rumours are that the famous HP10514 is made from 4 discrete hand selected >>>> diodes. If you have thousands of diodes to select from building your own >>>> mixer may give sense. >>>> >>>> >>> Well, the HP10514 does have 4 individual diodes. Selection is certainly being done. >>> >>> Using selection for other home-built stuff is done regularly in the Synth-DIY world, so it is not too hard to do. Modern mixers use either the same die or at last dies from the same place of the wafer to accomplish close matching. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Magnus >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

The RPD-1 allows access to all 4 nodes of the diode ring without shunting by the transformer windings if one leaves the 2 IF ground pins and the 2 IF output pins not connected together. Bruce Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > It should be easier to DC screen individual diodes for flicker noise than RF test full mixers.. > > That of course *assumes* that there's a correlation between baseband and RF. > > Bob > > > On Mar 27, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote: > > >> The potential advantage is that a typical 10514 using discrete diodes is about 6dB quieter than a typical RPD-1 using a monolithic quad in the flicker noise region. >> >> Bruce >> >> Bob Camp wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> You often see reels of parts on the auction sites at crazy prices. Somebody scrapped out a through hole pick and place loader and is selling off the inventory that was still in place. I've often though the one could get lucky and find a reel of rational diodes without spending a lot of money on them. >>> >>> Setting up to do the basic sort is definitely "basement compatible" sort of stuff. The tail end of the process would be to drop candidate quads into a fixture and see how they actually do in a real mixer. Still something you could do in the basement. >>> >>> The transformers you would wind are going to be a lot bigger than the ones MiniCircuits uses. I don't think that would be a problem in any most time nut basement settings. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ulrich Bangert wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Rumours are that the famous HP10514 is made from 4 discrete hand selected >>>>> diodes. If you have thousands of diodes to select from building your own >>>>> mixer may give sense. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Well, the HP10514 does have 4 individual diodes. Selection is certainly being done. >>>> >>>> Using selection for other home-built stuff is done regularly in the Synth-DIY world, so it is not too hard to do. Modern mixers use either the same die or at last dies from the same place of the wafer to accomplish close matching. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Magnus >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >

Hi You also could pull the diodes out of a 10514 and see what you get. Without a variety of parts to compare, I'm not sure how easy it would be to make sense out of what you found. Bob On Mar 27, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote: > The RPD-1 allows access to all 4 nodes of the diode ring without shunting by the transformer windings if one leaves the 2 IF ground pins and the 2 IF output pins not connected together. > > Bruce > > Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> It should be easier to DC screen individual diodes for flicker noise than RF test full mixers.. >> >> That of course *assumes* that there's a correlation between baseband and RF. >> >> Bob >> >> >> On Mar 27, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote: >> >> >>> The potential advantage is that a typical 10514 using discrete diodes is about 6dB quieter than a typical RPD-1 using a monolithic quad in the flicker noise region. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> Bob Camp wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> You often see reels of parts on the auction sites at crazy prices. Somebody scrapped out a through hole pick and place loader and is selling off the inventory that was still in place. I've often though the one could get lucky and find a reel of rational diodes without spending a lot of money on them. >>>> >>>> Setting up to do the basic sort is definitely "basement compatible" sort of stuff. The tail end of the process would be to drop candidate quads into a fixture and see how they actually do in a real mixer. Still something you could do in the basement. >>>> >>>> The transformers you would wind are going to be a lot bigger than the ones MiniCircuits uses. I don't think that would be a problem in any most time nut basement settings. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ulrich Bangert wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> It's not real clear that building a part with monolithic diode pairs or quads buys much over a part from MiniCircuits. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Rumours are that the famous HP10514 is made from 4 discrete hand selected >>>>>> diodes. If you have thousands of diodes to select from building your own >>>>>> mixer may give sense. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Well, the HP10514 does have 4 individual diodes. Selection is certainly being done. >>>>> >>>>> Using selection for other home-built stuff is done regularly in the Synth-DIY world, so it is not too hard to do. Modern mixers use either the same die or at last dies from the same place of the wafer to accomplish close matching. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Magnus >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >