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Re: Lucent KS-24361

HM
Hal Murray
Thu, Sep 14, 2023 12:30 AM

I was wondering if these things have maybe fallen foul of the 1024-week GPS
bug?

That will just give the wrong date.  Other than that, it should work normally.

So far I'm not getting anywhere

The GPS module in that gear is pretty old.  It will take a while to get going.
How long did you wait?  How good is your GPS antenna?  Try waiting longer.

[From memory, so I might scramble something.]

There are 2 boxes.  The GPS unit is in one.  The 10 MHz comes from the other.
There is a 15 pin cable to connect them.  If you don't need the 10 MHz, you
don't need the second box.

If you don't have the second box connected, the LED on the GPS box won't go
green.

There are 2 9-pin serial connectors on each box.  They are RS-422
(differential) rather than RS-232.

I don't have the pinout handy.  I've talked to one with just wires from a PC
serial port, no level shifting.  The port labeled Diag defaults to sending
something every second and doesn't have a PPS.

--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.

> I was wondering if these things have maybe fallen foul of the 1024-week GPS > bug? That will just give the wrong date. Other than that, it should work normally. > So far I'm not getting anywhere The GPS module in that gear is pretty old. It will take a while to get going. How long did you wait? How good is your GPS antenna? Try waiting longer. [From memory, so I might scramble something.] There are 2 boxes. The GPS unit is in one. The 10 MHz comes from the other. There is a 15 pin cable to connect them. If you don't need the 10 MHz, you don't need the second box. If you don't have the second box connected, the LED on the GPS box won't go green. There are 2 9-pin serial connectors on each box. They are RS-422 (differential) rather than RS-232. I don't have the pinout handy. I've talked to one with just wires from a PC serial port, no level shifting. The port labeled Diag defaults to sending something every second and doesn't have a PPS. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.
BS
Bob Stewart
Thu, Sep 14, 2023 12:50 AM

Hi Hal and Bob,

When the GPS receiver in my Z3805 reached it's limit, it would not even start a survey unless I had set the date using some calculation I found.  (I think I had to subtract 1024 weeks from the current date and put that in.)  But, I found a different revision of the receiver board in my "GPS stuff" and when I put that one in, the problem of having to manually set the date was gone.  I believe these are Motorola VP boards, but I could be wrong.

As to RS-422 and comms with the unit, I did find a 9-year old post of my own that mentioned an odd problem with my RS-422 interface adapter.  So, I'm going to get a replacement to see if it's just my RS-422 interface adapter.  I did find the conversation started by Stewart Cobb that has all the pins etc listed for J8.  So I'm good for that.

Bob

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Hal Murray halmurray@sonic.netTo: Bob Stewart bob@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.comCc: Hal Murray halmurray@sonic.netSent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 07:30:55 PM CDTSubject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361

I was wondering if these things have maybe fallen foul of the 1024-week GPS
bug?

That will just give the wrong date.  Other than that, it should work normally.

So far I'm not getting anywhere

The GPS module in that gear is pretty old.  It will take a while to get going.
How long did you wait?  How good is your GPS antenna?  Try waiting longer.

[From memory, so I might scramble something.]

There are 2 boxes.  The GPS unit is in one.  The 10 MHz comes from the other. 
There is a 15 pin cable to connect them.  If you don't need the 10 MHz, you
don't need the second box.

If you don't have the second box connected, the LED on the GPS box won't go
green.

There are 2 9-pin serial connectors on each box.  They are RS-422
(differential) rather than RS-232.

I don't have the pinout handy.  I've talked to one with just wires from a PC
serial port, no level shifting.  The port labeled Diag defaults to sending
something every second and doesn't have a PPS.

--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.

Hi Hal and Bob, When the GPS receiver in my Z3805 reached it's limit, it would not even start a survey unless I had set the date using some calculation I found.  (I think I had to subtract 1024 weeks from the current date and put that in.)  But, I found a different revision of the receiver board in my "GPS stuff" and when I put that one in, the problem of having to manually set the date was gone.  I believe these are Motorola VP boards, but I could be wrong. As to RS-422 and comms with the unit, I did find a 9-year old post of my own that mentioned an odd problem with my RS-422 interface adapter.  So, I'm going to get a replacement to see if it's just my RS-422 interface adapter.  I did find the conversation started by Stewart Cobb that has all the pins etc listed for J8.  So I'm good for that. Bob ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Hal Murray <halmurray@sonic.net>To: Bob Stewart <bob@evoria.net>; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com>Cc: Hal Murray <halmurray@sonic.net>Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 07:30:55 PM CDTSubject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 > I was wondering if these things have maybe fallen foul of the 1024-week GPS > bug? That will just give the wrong date.  Other than that, it should work normally. > So far I'm not getting anywhere The GPS module in that gear is pretty old.  It will take a while to get going. How long did you wait?  How good is your GPS antenna?  Try waiting longer. [From memory, so I might scramble something.] There are 2 boxes.  The GPS unit is in one.  The 10 MHz comes from the other.  There is a 15 pin cable to connect them.  If you don't need the 10 MHz, you don't need the second box. If you don't have the second box connected, the LED on the GPS box won't go green. There are 2 9-pin serial connectors on each box.  They are RS-422 (differential) rather than RS-232. I don't have the pinout handy.  I've talked to one with just wires from a PC serial port, no level shifting.  The port labeled Diag defaults to sending something every second and doesn't have a PPS. -- These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
G
ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de
Thu, Sep 14, 2023 2:00 PM

Am 2023-09-14 2:30, schrieb Hal Murray via time-nuts:

I was wondering if these things have maybe fallen foul of the
1024-week GPS
bug?

That will just give the wrong date.  Other than that, it should work
normally.

So far I'm not getting anywhere

The GPS module in that gear is pretty old.  It will take a while to get
going.
How long did you wait?  How good is your GPS antenna?  Try waiting
longer.

I had no problems with that. Datum survey antenna erected with great
interest
of the neighborhood on my garage roof. Looks like a small rocket.

An exerpt of a memo file of mine:

Serial cable for Lucent to PC

This is a FAKE RS422 to RS232 converter. Made from an old Logitech
serial mouse cable. The male side with the silver box goes to Lucent,
the old female mouse connector goes to PC.

RFTG          PC

DE-9P        DE-9S

7 <----------> 5 pink

8 <----------> 3 braun/brown

9 <----------> 2 weiss/white

(According to the official specs, this is cheating, because you're
connecting the negative side of the differential RS-422 signals to the
RS-232, and ignoring the positive side of the differential signals.
However, it's a standard hack, and it's worked every time I've tried
it.)  (Stewart Cobb on time nuts list)

Should be in the archive.
It used to work for me with a serial to USB cable sold by HAMA here
in Germany in the next super market. I don't care about the calendar,
I have a printed one on the wall. All I want is precise 10 MHz.

Oh, and to get 10 MHz instead of 5:
<    http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/DoubDist.pdf    >

This takes the output directly from from the 5 MHz MTI-260 oven of the
unit
with the GPS receiver. I also have the GPS-less redundancy plug-in
with a 2nd MTI-260. To be precise, I have 20 more of them because nobody
wanted them without GPS and I got a good price for that.

I plan to lock 16 of these MTI-260 sloooooowly to a common reference and
Wilkinson-combine all of them to get even better phase noise. Still
looking
for the ultimate phase detector. Hey, 16* Wenzel Citrine or at least
Oscilloquarz, that would be some progress-  :-)

If anybody needs spare parts for that Lucent stuff, ask me.
20 units are more then enough, just no GPS receivers.

Cheers, Gerhard

Am 2023-09-14 2:30, schrieb Hal Murray via time-nuts: >> I was wondering if these things have maybe fallen foul of the >> 1024-week GPS >> bug? > > That will just give the wrong date. Other than that, it should work > normally. > > >> So far I'm not getting anywhere > > The GPS module in that gear is pretty old. It will take a while to get > going. > How long did you wait? How good is your GPS antenna? Try waiting > longer. I had no problems with that. Datum survey antenna erected with great interest of the neighborhood on my garage roof. Looks like a small rocket. An exerpt of a memo file of mine: Serial cable for Lucent to PC This is a FAKE RS422 to RS232 converter. Made from an old Logitech serial mouse cable. The male side with the silver box goes to Lucent, the old female mouse connector goes to PC. RFTG PC DE-9P DE-9S 7 <----------> 5 pink 8 <----------> 3 braun/brown 9 <----------> 2 weiss/white (According to the official specs, this is cheating, because you're connecting the negative side of the differential RS-422 signals to the RS-232, and ignoring the positive side of the differential signals. However, it's a standard hack, and it's worked every time I've tried it.) (Stewart Cobb on time nuts list) Should be in the archive. It used to work for me with a serial to USB cable sold by HAMA here in Germany in the next super market. I don't care about the calendar, I have a printed one on the wall. All I want is precise 10 MHz. Oh, and to get 10 MHz instead of 5: < http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/DoubDist.pdf > This takes the output directly from from the 5 MHz MTI-260 oven of the unit with the GPS receiver. I also have the GPS-less redundancy plug-in with a 2nd MTI-260. To be precise, I have 20 more of them because nobody wanted them without GPS and I got a good price for that. I plan to lock 16 of these MTI-260 sloooooowly to a common reference and Wilkinson-combine all of them to get even better phase noise. Still looking for the ultimate phase detector. Hey, 16* Wenzel Citrine or at least Oscilloquarz, that would be some progress- :-) If anybody needs spare parts for that Lucent stuff, ask me. 20 units are more then enough, just no GPS receivers. Cheers, Gerhard