Ok, let's bring some order to this process, which is something I discussed
in my first email introducing the topic:

I proposed:  I wonder if people on the list would be interested in taking on
an intellectual challenge of designing the "perfect" Passagemaking capable
Trawler?  We could establish the use scenario and crew requirements then
propose various systems and options.  We would go week by week and
argue/discuss these various systems.

Many responses stated exactly what I proposed, which is you need to define
who your building it for, and what it's going to do.  As several replies
observed, PRICE is ONE of the MOST important factors.  I guess when I
started thinking about this it was associated with doing something that's
kind of hard to find today, that is an affordable passagemaker that hits the
broadest segment of the buying public.  It use to be the Diesel Duck from
Seahorse Marine at $300k was my idea of an affordable world capable
passagemaker, but alas the wife vetoed it because of the all down salon and
galley.  In concert with a suggestion about addressing the Lines or Looks of
the boat, this livability factor is key.

So here is what I'd propose, first, let's not tackle everything at once.
Let's start with defining who we are targeting and what it needs to be
capable of doing.  As one noted, PASSAGEMAKING IS A REQUIREMENT FOR THIS
LIST.  So, building a boat that can coastal hop from one spot to another,
but doesn't have the legs to get from LA to HI is out.

I'm suggesting we take each segment of the discussion and focus on that
until we come to a meeting of the minds, then move on.  If this is
agreeable, let's do two things at once, start right away with who are we
building this for, and drafting a table of what issues need to be discussed.

I'd propose we use the subject line:  PUP PPM topic so people not
interested can quickly filter out what they are not interested in

I'd also propose we hold each other to a higher level of quality in our
communications.  As suggested NO ONE LINER's, unless you feel it's adding
real value.

NO Replies that don't include TRIMMING the useless text.  If I've posted a
long email that you don't agree with, don't just hit reply, say I full of
crap and then include the original posting in the reply.  Trim it down and
pull out the part where I'm full of crap and quote that.  If you don't know
how to do this, call me on a Saturday or Sunday (when my cell minutes are
free, unless your Verizon then you can call anytime) and I'll teach you over
the phone how to trim text from an email and reply, it's really easy, just
Edit, Select, Cut and Paste.

Realize some of the participants in this discussion are paying for every bit
that arrives at their computer.  I was averaging $100 a month for sat comms
in Mexico and Central America for a hand full of messages every day.  Please
be kind to these people.

I'd propose we keep the output of our discussions on a publically accessible
server, like Google Documents and make edits to it as we reach conclusions.
Once a topic is done, it's done!  If we decided on a multihull (God forbid!)
then that's it, no revisiting the issue later.  If you want to drop out of
the discussion, feel free, but don't keep coming back and saying "if you
would have done a cat you wouldn't need those stabilizers".  Because I'd
reply, you paid how much for that second hull that has an engine space so
small you can't change an oil filter, or something like that.

Well I've said a lot, why don't you guys think about this and contribute to
this discussion and I'll try to summarize.

Oh, since this will be discussed in the open public, no one owns anything
that comes out of it.  If I go start a boat building company and build this
trawler don't come and sue me because I stole your idea.  And if Bayliner
starts to build this, don't bitch that they stole your ideas.  If you want
to keep them to yourself, keep them to yourself.

Sound good?  I hope I don't sound like an autocrat, I just think there's a
good way to do this and a crazy way.

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA

I would like to participate and will follow the guidelines Scott has set
out.  I would like to see a Passagemaker that can be operated by a couple
50+ and when needed one or two crew (for the actual passage), and no larger
than 55-60 feet. Full walk around decks and a fan tail have been in our
dreams.  Galley up, saloon up with covered aft deck.  We are not engineers
or navel designers so it will be interesting to hear what you experienced
sailors have to say.