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TWL: Heaving to for the USCG AND the Navy

R
rgano@mantech-pc.com
Thu, Nov 30, 2000 9:36 AM

Hi Zeke,
Interesting note about your experience as a "drug runner."  I would be very
surprised if there were no ammo in any gun pointed at you by an armed
service of the US.  Unless you could visually verify there was none in the
gun, I'd suggest they told you that to calm your fears and not make
themselves look so aggressive, once they discovered you were innocent
passagemakers.

On another tack, the US Navy also gets into the act by taking US Coast Guard
personnel aboard in the form of a legal detachment (LEDET).  Once the USCG
flag is hoisted, and the senior USCG person in the LEDET assumes control
(note: I am not saying "command" of the ship), the ship becomes in effect a
USCG vessel with all the rights and responsibilities thereof.  So you lawyer
types can forget about posse commitodus (or however it is spelled), which
says the armed forces of the US may not act as cops.  If one of Uncle Sam's
long gray ships pulls you over, don't bring up constitutional issues until
you have looked up the mast to see who's flag is there.

When I was Weapons Officer in the battleship USS IOWA in the early 1980s, we
took aboard a USCG LEDET for a swing through southern waters.  One
beautifully slick-calm day off South Carolina we came upon a boat of about
60-80 foot length that was probably a long liner.  The LEDET officer asked
the captain for control so he could board this guy with his USCG types.

Well, being a Battleship, we didn't want to be outgunned by these
fuzzy-faced Americanos; so we had prepared our part of the team well to back
up the Coasties.  I want to say at this point that I personally had no role
to play in this particular drill.  My duties were generally elevated to a
higher plane where 16- and 5-inch guns, Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles, and
automatic Gatling guns ruled the day.  I had let the US Marine Corps Captain
who worked for me handle organizational liaison with the LEDET.  Now keep in
mind that the 60 Marines he commanded were there primarily to protect any
nuclear weapons that I may or may not have had loaded in my missile cells.
As such, they tended to be completely no-nonsense about security.  They were
trained, as are all US nuke weapon guards, to take no account of hostages
nor any other mitigating factor in their efforts to KILL anybody interfering
with security of the weapons.  Just a bit of background for what happened
next.

When the boarding party call went out throughout the ship, all hell broke
loose.  I had decided to wander out on the broad expanse of teak that
covered the main deck (yes, acres and acres of teak) to see what was going
on.  Very quickly I noticed the starboard motor whaleboat lowering team get
in position followed quickly by the Navy coxswain, engineer, and bow hook
who were in turn followed into the boat by a number of combat-clothed and
armed Coasties.

While all this was happening, a hatch nearby clanged open, and nearly every
Marine on board came pouring out, fully helmeted, bullet-proof vested, and
locked and loaded.  I had to move quickly (even full US Navy Commanders do
not get between a Marine and a potential target) as these guys flung
themselves down on the deck behind every available bollard and chock and
trained their M-16s and M-60 machineguns on the fishermen.  Somewhere up
forward, some of my gunners mates were unlimbering a couple of .50 Cal
Browning heavy machineguns.  Soon the whaleboat was over to the long-liner
where the LEDET had the crew all muster over on one side with their hands in
full view, while they boarded with weapons drawn.  Then the whaleboat, with
its weapons trained on the fishing crew moved to one side of the line of
fire between the IOWA (about 50-100 yards away) and the fishing boat in case
any fireworks should develop.  The LEDET personnel initially remained to one
side of the fishermen, thus catching them in a potential three-way
crossfire.

I walked aft, thinking jusssst maybe we were a bit into the overkill mode
here.  I remember looking back forward to make sure somebody hadn't talked
my 16-inch gunners into training out the three triple-gun turrets on this
hapless group.  It was embarrassing to me, but anyway, what a tableau!  As I
leaned over the rail looking forward, all I could see were bunches of gun
barrels pointing off to starboard toward the target plus more heavy
machinegun barrels up in the ship's superstructure from the .50 cals.

And not an unloaded gun in the bunch.  Luckily, nobody sneezed.

The battleships are now gone, but the drug runners remain, as does the
Navy's support of the USCG.  So if you are off trawlering about in southern
waters, do not be surprised if a US Navy vessel or gray-painted helicopter
hails you.  When the Navy ship arrives it will identify itself as having
USCG LEDET personnel who wish to board and search your vessel. IF anybody
trains a gun on you (I hope we don't do that any more as a normal
procedure), or if you see somebody with a gun, I will bet my next month's
paycheck it is loaded.  Incidentally, I read where the USCG is now employing
armed helicopters to shoot at to disable the go-fast drug boats that do not
obey an order to pull over.  It is having to assign its fastest
ocean-capable cutters (the 110-foot Kodiaks) to chase these guys down off
the coasts of Central America, Mexico, and Texas.

Just a little tidbit FYI.

Aiming to please,
Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB42-295)
Homeport Panama City
I'd rather be cruisin'

Hi Zeke, Interesting note about your experience as a "drug runner." I would be very surprised if there were no ammo in any gun pointed at you by an armed service of the US. Unless you could visually verify there was none in the gun, I'd suggest they told you that to calm your fears and not make themselves look so aggressive, once they discovered you were innocent passagemakers. On another tack, the US Navy also gets into the act by taking US Coast Guard personnel aboard in the form of a legal detachment (LEDET). Once the USCG flag is hoisted, and the senior USCG person in the LEDET assumes control (note: I am not saying "command" of the ship), the ship becomes in effect a USCG vessel with all the rights and responsibilities thereof. So you lawyer types can forget about posse commitodus (or however it is spelled), which says the armed forces of the US may not act as cops. If one of Uncle Sam's long gray ships pulls you over, don't bring up constitutional issues until you have looked up the mast to see who's flag is there. When I was Weapons Officer in the battleship USS IOWA in the early 1980s, we took aboard a USCG LEDET for a swing through southern waters. One beautifully slick-calm day off South Carolina we came upon a boat of about 60-80 foot length that was probably a long liner. The LEDET officer asked the captain for control so he could board this guy with his USCG types. Well, being a Battleship, we didn't want to be outgunned by these fuzzy-faced Americanos; so we had prepared our part of the team well to back up the Coasties. I want to say at this point that I personally had no role to play in this particular drill. My duties were generally elevated to a higher plane where 16- and 5-inch guns, Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles, and automatic Gatling guns ruled the day. I had let the US Marine Corps Captain who worked for me handle organizational liaison with the LEDET. Now keep in mind that the 60 Marines he commanded were there primarily to protect any nuclear weapons that I may or may not have had loaded in my missile cells. As such, they tended to be completely no-nonsense about security. They were trained, as are all US nuke weapon guards, to take no account of hostages nor any other mitigating factor in their efforts to KILL anybody interfering with security of the weapons. Just a bit of background for what happened next. When the boarding party call went out throughout the ship, all hell broke loose. I had decided to wander out on the broad expanse of teak that covered the main deck (yes, acres and acres of teak) to see what was going on. Very quickly I noticed the starboard motor whaleboat lowering team get in position followed quickly by the Navy coxswain, engineer, and bow hook who were in turn followed into the boat by a number of combat-clothed and armed Coasties. While all this was happening, a hatch nearby clanged open, and nearly every Marine on board came pouring out, fully helmeted, bullet-proof vested, and locked and loaded. I had to move quickly (even full US Navy Commanders do not get between a Marine and a potential target) as these guys flung themselves down on the deck behind every available bollard and chock and trained their M-16s and M-60 machineguns on the fishermen. Somewhere up forward, some of my gunners mates were unlimbering a couple of .50 Cal Browning heavy machineguns. Soon the whaleboat was over to the long-liner where the LEDET had the crew all muster over on one side with their hands in full view, while they boarded with weapons drawn. Then the whaleboat, with its weapons trained on the fishing crew moved to one side of the line of fire between the IOWA (about 50-100 yards away) and the fishing boat in case any fireworks should develop. The LEDET personnel initially remained to one side of the fishermen, thus catching them in a potential three-way crossfire. I walked aft, thinking jusssst maybe we were a bit into the overkill mode here. I remember looking back forward to make sure somebody hadn't talked my 16-inch gunners into training out the three triple-gun turrets on this hapless group. It was embarrassing to me, but anyway, what a tableau! As I leaned over the rail looking forward, all I could see were bunches of gun barrels pointing off to starboard toward the target plus more heavy machinegun barrels up in the ship's superstructure from the .50 cals. And not an unloaded gun in the bunch. Luckily, nobody sneezed. The battleships are now gone, but the drug runners remain, as does the Navy's support of the USCG. So if you are off trawlering about in southern waters, do not be surprised if a US Navy vessel or gray-painted helicopter hails you. When the Navy ship arrives it will identify itself as having USCG LEDET personnel who wish to board and search your vessel. IF anybody trains a gun on you (I hope we don't do that any more as a normal procedure), or if you see somebody with a gun, I will bet my next month's paycheck it is loaded. Incidentally, I read where the USCG is now employing armed helicopters to shoot at to disable the go-fast drug boats that do not obey an order to pull over. It is having to assign its fastest ocean-capable cutters (the 110-foot Kodiaks) to chase these guys down off the coasts of Central America, Mexico, and Texas. Just a little tidbit FYI. Aiming to please, Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB42-295) Homeport Panama City I'd rather be cruisin'
T
tobyboat@erols.com
Thu, Nov 30, 2000 3:54 PM

It ain't just the Coasties .

 My wife drove our old  RX7 to visit friends in Detroit  and took the

Ferry - just because she likes Ferry Boats --accross the Lake - entering
Canada and then returning from Canada into the US ..

Maybe, as a retired school teacher -  she fit the profile - or the car

did - who knows - but she was most upset by the complete search of the car
by armed US Customs agents at the  US boarder which took several hours  and
was asked repeatedly why she had taken that highly suspicious route !

Any odds those guns were not loaded either ???

Ken

It ain't just the Coasties . My wife drove our old RX7 to visit friends in Detroit and took the Ferry - just because she likes Ferry Boats --accross the Lake - entering Canada and then returning from Canada into the US .. Maybe, as a retired school teacher - she fit the profile - or the car did - who knows - but she was most upset by the complete search of the car by armed US Customs agents at the US boarder which took several hours and was asked repeatedly why she had taken that highly suspicious route ! Any odds those guns were not loaded either ??? Ken
Z
zeekstah@ktc.com
Thu, Nov 30, 2000 5:11 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Gano" rgano@mantech-pc.com
To: zeekstah@ktc.com
Cc: "TrawlerWorld" trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 3:36 AM
Subject: Heaving to for the USCG AND the Navy

Hi Zeke,
Interesting note about your experience as a "drug runner."  I would be

very

surprised if there were no ammo in any gun pointed at you by an armed
service of the US.

. IF anybody  trains a gun on you (I hope we don't do that any more as a
normal

procedure), or if you see somebody with a gun, I will bet my next month's
paycheck it is loaded.

After our incident, about 1981, my daughter briefly dated a Coastie
stationed at Peanut Island, Fla. He told us about the ammo. Maybe they had
to lend all theirs to the IOWA ;-)  Since I assume all guns are loaded it
doesn't matter whether they are or aren't.

Zeke Anderson
MV Texas Cookin'
PT 38
Seabrook, Texas

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Gano" <rgano@mantech-pc.com> To: <zeekstah@ktc.com> Cc: "TrawlerWorld" <trawler-world-list@samurai.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 3:36 AM Subject: Heaving to for the USCG AND the Navy > Hi Zeke, > Interesting note about your experience as a "drug runner." I would be very > surprised if there were no ammo in any gun pointed at you by an armed > service of the US. > . IF anybody trains a gun on you (I hope we don't do that any more as a normal > procedure), or if you see somebody with a gun, I will bet my next month's > paycheck it is loaded. After our incident, about 1981, my daughter briefly dated a Coastie stationed at Peanut Island, Fla. He told us about the ammo. Maybe they had to lend all theirs to the IOWA ;-) Since I assume all guns are loaded it doesn't matter whether they are or aren't. Zeke Anderson MV Texas Cookin' PT 38 Seabrook, Texas
S
scaramouche@tvo.org
Fri, Dec 1, 2000 12:10 AM

and then returning from Canada into the US ..

Maybe, as a retired school teacher -  she fit the profile - or

the car
did - who knows - but she was most upset by the complete search of
the car

You said it: Retired schoolteachers  are obviousy untrustworthy
inddividuala. Although I personally  would trust my ex- high school
teacher with my life anywhere1
Mrs Anna Wenda where are you when I need you?

tobyboat@erols.com writes: > and then returning from Canada into the US .. > > Maybe, as a retired school teacher - she fit the profile - or >the car >did - who knows - but she was most upset by the complete search of >the car You said it: Retired schoolteachers are obviousy untrustworthy inddividuala. Although I personally would trust my ex- high school teacher with my life anywhere1 Mrs Anna Wenda where are you when I need you?
D
docmoss@tampabay.rr.com
Fri, Dec 1, 2000 2:02 AM

3 years ago I was returning from a trip to Cuba via my sailboat, a 38 ft
Morgan, when the CG hailed me down.  The skipper identified himself and
"asked" me to allow boarders,  to give me a "safety" inspection (to the tune
of a 50 cal. machine gun with a crewman standing behind it, pointed in our
direction.)  He told me to continue on my course and forget altering speed
( we had 10 foot seas), and asked me which side I preferred the party to
board on.  I replied probably on the leward side since the windward side was
12 feet off the water.  They sent over 4 guys, one was the driver, and 2
GIANT black dudes with sidearms and a very smallish white ensign.  The two
big dudes were NFL tackles with guns and the ensign must have been the
waterboy.  Anyway, they gave the boat a rather quick once over and once they
realized that we were not gunrunners or pirates they politely excused
themselves and hit the waves.

Something to tell the grandkids about.
docmoss
MT44
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Gano" rgano@mantech-pc.com
Subject: TWL: Heaving to for the USCG AND the Navy

Hi Zeke,
Interesting note about your experience as a "drug runner."  I would be

very

surprised if there were no ammo in any gun pointed at you by an armed
service of the US.  Unless you could visually verify there was none in the
gun, I'd suggest they told you that to calm your fears and not make
themselves look so aggressive, once they discovered you were innocent
passagemakers.

obey an order to pull over.  It is having to assign its fastest
ocean-capable cutters (the 110-foot Kodiaks) to chase these guys down off

Just a little tidbit FYI.

Aiming to please,
Rich Gano
CALYPSO (GB42-295)
Homeport Panama City
I'd rather be cruisin'

3 years ago I was returning from a trip to Cuba via my sailboat, a 38 ft Morgan, when the CG hailed me down. The skipper identified himself and "asked" me to allow boarders, to give me a "safety" inspection (to the tune of a 50 cal. machine gun with a crewman standing behind it, pointed in our direction.) He told me to continue on my course and forget altering speed ( we had 10 foot seas), and asked me which side I preferred the party to board on. I replied probably on the leward side since the windward side was 12 feet off the water. They sent over 4 guys, one was the driver, and 2 GIANT black dudes with sidearms and a very smallish white ensign. The two big dudes were NFL tackles with guns and the ensign must have been the waterboy. Anyway, they gave the boat a rather quick once over and once they realized that we were not gunrunners or pirates they politely excused themselves and hit the waves. Something to tell the grandkids about. docmoss MT44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Gano" <rgano@mantech-pc.com> Subject: TWL: Heaving to for the USCG AND the Navy > Hi Zeke, > Interesting note about your experience as a "drug runner." I would be very > surprised if there were no ammo in any gun pointed at you by an armed > service of the US. Unless you could visually verify there was none in the > gun, I'd suggest they told you that to calm your fears and not make > themselves look so aggressive, once they discovered you were innocent > passagemakers. > > obey an order to pull over. It is having to assign its fastest > ocean-capable cutters (the 110-foot Kodiaks) to chase these guys down off > > Just a little tidbit FYI. > > Aiming to please, > Rich Gano > CALYPSO (GB42-295) > Homeport Panama City > I'd rather be cruisin' > >