GB

Gregory Beat

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 11:53 AM

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.

Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf

Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf

UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX

GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector

greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Hi there Everyone,

Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore
user and could assist.

I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since
the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock
to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands
correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help,
but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to.
Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do
not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?

Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf UT Plus model numbers: R5122U111x - right angle OSX R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery R5122U115x - straight OSX GT Plus model numbers: R3111G111x - standard version R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector greg, w9gb == Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com Hi there Everyone, Thanks for accepting me to this list. I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore user and could assist. I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a "baseboard" for timing purposes. One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since the pre-pandemic era. Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock to any satellites. The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands correctly. I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help, but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to. Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra debug options? Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance, Marcelo.

JA

John Ackermann N8UR

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 7:14 PM

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO
drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered
off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test
equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note
that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.

Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf

Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf

UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX

GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector

greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Hi there Everyone,

Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore
user and could assist.

I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since
the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock
to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands
correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help,
but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to.
Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do
not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?

Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. John ----- On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: > IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. > I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. > > Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) > https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf > > Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) > https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf > > UT Plus model numbers: > R5122U111x - right angle OSX > R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery > R5122U115x - straight OSX > > GT Plus model numbers: > R3111G111x - standard version > R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery > R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector > > greg, w9gb > == > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 > From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore > To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > Hi there Everyone, > > Thanks for accepting me to this list. > I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore > user and could assist. > > I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a > "baseboard" for timing purposes. > One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. > They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since > the pre-pandemic era. > Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock > to any satellites. > The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands > correctly. > I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. > The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. > I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. > No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. > I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. > I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help, > but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. > At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, > board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to. > Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do > not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra > debug options? > > Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. > > Thanks a lot in advance, > Marcelo. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

BK

Bob kb8tq

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 8:20 PM

Hi

The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is.
If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data
for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off.

The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules.
They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours
(or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come
back to life …. who knows ….

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.
Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf
Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf
UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX
GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector
greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Hi there Everyone,
Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore
user and could assist.
I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since
the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock
to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands
correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help,
but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to.
Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do
not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?
Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is. If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off. The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules. They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours (or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come back to life …. who knows …. Bob > On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. > > John > ----- > > On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: >> IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. >> I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. >> Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >> https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf >> Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >> https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf >> UT Plus model numbers: >> R5122U111x - right angle OSX >> R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery >> R5122U115x - straight OSX >> GT Plus model numbers: >> R3111G111x - standard version >> R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery >> R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector >> greg, w9gb >> == >> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 >> From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore >> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> Hi there Everyone, >> Thanks for accepting me to this list. >> I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore >> user and could assist. >> I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a >> "baseboard" for timing purposes. >> One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. >> They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since >> the pre-pandemic era. >> Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock >> to any satellites. >> The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands >> correctly. >> I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. >> The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. >> I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. >> No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. >> I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. >> I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help, >> but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. >> At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, >> board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to. >> Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do >> not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra >> debug options? >> Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. >> Thanks a lot in advance, >> Marcelo. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

B

Björn

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 8:21 PM

Marcelo,

In addition to others suggestions

Gain requirement - “10 to 33 dB at receiver input“

Your antenna could well be overdriving the receiver input.

/Björn

Sent from my Phone

On 19 Sep 2022, at 21:34, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:
IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.
Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf
Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf
UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX
GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector
greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Hi there Everyone,
Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore
user and could assist.
I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since
the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock
to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands
correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help,
but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to.
Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do
not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?
Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Marcelo, In addition to others suggestions Gain requirement - “10 to 33 dB at receiver input“ Your antenna could well be overdriving the receiver input. /Björn Sent from my Phone > On 19 Sep 2022, at 21:34, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. > > John > ----- > >> On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: >> IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. >> I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. >> Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >> https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf >> Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >> https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf >> UT Plus model numbers: >> R5122U111x - right angle OSX >> R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery >> R5122U115x - straight OSX >> GT Plus model numbers: >> R3111G111x - standard version >> R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery >> R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector >> greg, w9gb >> == >> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 >> From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore >> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> Hi there Everyone, >> Thanks for accepting me to this list. >> I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore >> user and could assist. >> I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a >> "baseboard" for timing purposes. >> One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. >> They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since >> the pre-pandemic era. >> Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock >> to any satellites. >> The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands >> correctly. >> I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. >> The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. >> I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. >> No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. >> I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. >> I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help, >> but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. >> At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, >> board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to. >> Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do >> not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra >> debug options? >> Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. >> Thanks a lot in advance, >> Marcelo. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

MD

Marcelo Dantas

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 8:26 PM

Hi John,

I suspect it could be something like this, because when I bought it new
(with this same antenna) the GPS would lock very quickly and have maybe 5
to 7 satellites tracked real quick.
Now after being on the shelf for a couple years, this happens.
I will try to research this calibration process, maybe I will get lucky.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 3:34 PM John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO
drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered
off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test
equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note
that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.

Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf

Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf

UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX

GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector

greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola

Oncore

To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Hi there Everyone,

Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola

Oncore

user and could assist.

I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since
the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock
to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting

commands

correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would

help,

but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses

to.

Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do
not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?

Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi John, I suspect it could be something like this, because when I bought it new (with this same antenna) the GPS would lock very quickly and have maybe 5 to 7 satellites tracked real quick. Now after being on the shelf for a couple years, this happens. I will try to research this calibration process, maybe I will get lucky. Thanks, Marcelo. On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 3:34 PM John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO > drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered > off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test > equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note > that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. > > John > ----- > > On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: > > IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. > > I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. > > > > Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) > > https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf > > > > Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) > > https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf > > > > UT Plus model numbers: > > R5122U111x - right angle OSX > > R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery > > R5122U115x - straight OSX > > > > GT Plus model numbers: > > R3111G111x - standard version > > R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery > > R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector > > > > greg, w9gb > > == > > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 > > From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> > > Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola > Oncore > > To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > > > Hi there Everyone, > > > > Thanks for accepting me to this list. > > I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola > Oncore > > user and could assist. > > > > I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a > > "baseboard" for timing purposes. > > One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. > > They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since > > the pre-pandemic era. > > Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock > > to any satellites. > > The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting > commands > > correctly. > > I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. > > The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. > > I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. > > No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. > > I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. > > I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would > help, > > but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. > > At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, > > board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses > to. > > Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do > > not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra > > debug options? > > > > Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. > > > > Thanks a lot in advance, > > Marcelo. > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >

MD

Marcelo Dantas

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 8:41 PM

@Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting there
in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it should
continue to work I guess.
I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on.
When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a
bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different
input impedance.

@Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of an
almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would require.
I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but when
importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure messages, and
the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status.
I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal
information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it
out, could help.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi

The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is.
If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data
for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off.

The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules.
They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours
(or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come
back to life …. who knows ….

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <

time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO

drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off
for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment
required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's
available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.
Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf
Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf
UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX
GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector
greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola

Oncore

To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Hi there Everyone,
Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola

Oncore

user and could assist.
I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time"

since

the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't

lock

to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting

commands

correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would

help,

but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses

to.

Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I

do

not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?
Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

@Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it should continue to work I guess. I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on. When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different input impedance. @Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would require. I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status. I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it out, could help. Thanks, Marcelo. On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Hi > > The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is. > If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data > for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off. > > The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules. > They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours > (or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come > back to life …. who knows …. > > Bob > > > On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > > > Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO > drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off > for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment > required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's > available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. > > > > John > > ----- > > > > On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: > >> IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. > >> I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. > >> Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) > >> https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf > >> Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) > >> https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf > >> UT Plus model numbers: > >> R5122U111x - right angle OSX > >> R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery > >> R5122U115x - straight OSX > >> GT Plus model numbers: > >> R3111G111x - standard version > >> R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery > >> R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector > >> greg, w9gb > >> == > >> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 > >> From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola > Oncore > >> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >> Hi there Everyone, > >> Thanks for accepting me to this list. > >> I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola > Oncore > >> user and could assist. > >> I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a > >> "baseboard" for timing purposes. > >> One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. > >> They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" > since > >> the pre-pandemic era. > >> Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't > lock > >> to any satellites. > >> The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting > commands > >> correctly. > >> I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. > >> The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. > >> I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. > >> No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. > >> I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. > >> I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would > help, > >> but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. > >> At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, > >> board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses > to. > >> Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I > do > >> not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra > >> debug options? > >> Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. > >> Thanks a lot in advance, > >> Marcelo. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

BK

Bob kb8tq

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 9:10 PM

Hi

If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue.
It may not be all of the issue ….

How old are these modules? They went through several
revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous
version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very
long time to come up with an almanac.

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com wrote:

@Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it should continue to work I guess.
I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on.
When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different input impedance.

@Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would require.
I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status.
I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it out, could help.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Hi

The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is.
If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data
for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off.

The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules.
They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours
(or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come
back to life …. who knows ….

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.
Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf
Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf
UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX
GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector
greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Hi there Everyone,
Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore
user and could assist.
I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since
the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock
to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands
correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help,
but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to.
Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do
not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?
Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue. It may not be *all* of the issue …. How old are these modules? They went through several revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very long time to come up with an almanac. Bob > On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> wrote: > > @Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it should continue to work I guess. > I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on. > When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different input impedance. > > @Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would require. > I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status. > I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it out, could help. > > Thanks, > Marcelo. > > > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com>> wrote: > Hi > > The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is. > If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data > for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off. > > The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules. > They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours > (or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come > back to life …. who knows …. > > Bob > > > On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com>> wrote: > > > > Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. > > > > John > > ----- > > > > On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: > >> IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. > >> I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. > >> Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) > >> https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf <https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf> > >> Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) > >> https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf <https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf> > >> UT Plus model numbers: > >> R5122U111x - right angle OSX > >> R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery > >> R5122U115x - straight OSX > >> GT Plus model numbers: > >> R3111G111x - standard version > >> R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery > >> R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector > >> greg, w9gb > >> == > >> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 > >> From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com <mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com>> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore > >> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > >> Hi there Everyone, > >> Thanks for accepting me to this list. > >> I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore > >> user and could assist. > >> I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a > >> "baseboard" for timing purposes. > >> One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. > >> They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since > >> the pre-pandemic era. > >> Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock > >> to any satellites. > >> The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands > >> correctly. > >> I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. > >> The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. > >> I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. > >> No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. > >> I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. > >> I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help, > >> but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. > >> At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, > >> board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to. > >> Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do > >> not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra > >> debug options? > >> Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. > >> Thanks a lot in advance, > >> Marcelo. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com>

MD

Marcelo Dantas

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 9:36 PM

Hi Bob,

The modules are old. 1998/2000.

I have left the UT+ running for about 36 Hrs. I have noticed that the
battery on the UT+ is dead, so I am ordering a replacement.
However, while running powered for 36 hours I expected it would see
"something". I wish there was a way to verify some of its internal
information, to see if it was actually collecting something.

The WinOncore software allows you to upload an almanac, and it talks about
a .alm file extension, and on the .gov site I only found a latest_yuma.alm
file, which I uploaded, but it would still show "bad almanac".
I have also tried to upload a .al3 (SEM) file, with the same result.
Both files seem to upload, so I am not sure which one should be the correct
one, or if both are. I am assuming the yuma because it has the .alm
extension. (still a noob in this matter)

On a new development, the GT+ started showing satellites, it shows 10
satellites visible, zero tracked.
The UT+ regardless of the almanacs uploaded, still shows zero visible, zero
tracked.

I am still trying to find a reference to the correct (expected) almanac
file format and to the eventual calibration procedure referred previously.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:10 PM Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:

Hi

If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue.
It may not be all of the issue ….

How old are these modules? They went through several
revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous
version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very
long time to come up with an almanac.

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com
wrote:

@Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting
there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it
should continue to work I guess.
I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on.
When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a
bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different
input impedance.

@Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of
an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would
require.
I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but
when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure
messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status.
I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal
information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it
out, could help.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi

The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is.
If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data
for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off.

The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules.
They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours
(or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come
back to life …. who knows ….

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <

time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO

drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off
for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment
required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's
available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.
Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf
Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf
UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX
GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector
greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola

Oncore

To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Hi there Everyone,
Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola

Oncore

user and could assist.
I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time"

since

the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't

lock

to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting

commands

correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would

help,

but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system

(module,

board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses

to.

Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I

do

not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?
Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi Bob, The modules are old. 1998/2000. I have left the UT+ running for about 36 Hrs. I have noticed that the battery on the UT+ is dead, so I am ordering a replacement. However, while running powered for 36 hours I expected it would see "something". I wish there was a way to verify some of its internal information, to see if it was actually collecting something. The WinOncore software allows you to upload an almanac, and it talks about a .alm file extension, and on the .gov site I only found a latest_yuma.alm file, which I uploaded, but it would still show "bad almanac". I have also tried to upload a .al3 (SEM) file, with the same result. Both files seem to upload, so I am not sure which one should be the correct one, or if both are. I am assuming the yuma because it has the .alm extension. (still a noob in this matter) On a new development, the GT+ started showing satellites, it shows 10 satellites visible, zero tracked. The UT+ regardless of the almanacs uploaded, still shows zero visible, zero tracked. I am still trying to find a reference to the correct (expected) almanac file format and to the eventual calibration procedure referred previously. Thanks, Marcelo. On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:10 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue. > It may not be *all* of the issue …. > > How old are these modules? They went through several > revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous > version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very > long time to come up with an almanac. > > Bob > > On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> > wrote: > > @Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting > there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it > should continue to work I guess. > I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on. > When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a > bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different > input impedance. > > @Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of > an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would > require. > I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but > when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure > messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status. > I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal > information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it > out, could help. > > Thanks, > Marcelo. > > > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is. >> If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data >> for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off. >> >> The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules. >> They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours >> (or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come >> back to life …. who knows …. >> >> Bob >> >> > On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts < >> time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: >> > >> > Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO >> drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off >> for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment >> required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's >> available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. >> > >> > John >> > ----- >> > >> > On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: >> >> IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. >> >> I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. >> >> Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >> >> https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf >> >> Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >> >> https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf >> >> UT Plus model numbers: >> >> R5122U111x - right angle OSX >> >> R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery >> >> R5122U115x - straight OSX >> >> GT Plus model numbers: >> >> R3111G111x - standard version >> >> R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery >> >> R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector >> >> greg, w9gb >> >> == >> >> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 >> >> From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> >> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola >> Oncore >> >> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> >> Hi there Everyone, >> >> Thanks for accepting me to this list. >> >> I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola >> Oncore >> >> user and could assist. >> >> I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a >> >> "baseboard" for timing purposes. >> >> One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. >> >> They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" >> since >> >> the pre-pandemic era. >> >> Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't >> lock >> >> to any satellites. >> >> The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting >> commands >> >> correctly. >> >> I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. >> >> The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. >> >> I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. >> >> No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. >> >> I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. >> >> I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would >> help, >> >> but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. >> >> At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system >> (module, >> >> board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses >> to. >> >> Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I >> do >> >> not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra >> >> debug options? >> >> Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. >> >> Thanks a lot in advance, >> >> Marcelo. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > > >

BK

Bob kb8tq

Mon, Sep 19, 2022 10:27 PM

Hi

It would not surprise me at all to find that a modern version of the
almanac is different than the 1998 version. A lot has changed since
then.

Given that you can find these for < $10 on eBay. I would not invest
a lot in them at this point …. Once you get them running, you will
have roll over issues.

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 4:36 PM, Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Bob,

The modules are old. 1998/2000.

I have left the UT+ running for about 36 Hrs. I have noticed that the battery on the UT+ is dead, so I am ordering a replacement.
However, while running powered for 36 hours I expected it would see "something". I wish there was a way to verify some of its internal information, to see if it was actually collecting something.

The WinOncore software allows you to upload an almanac, and it talks about a .alm file extension, and on the .gov site I only found a latest_yuma.alm file, which I uploaded, but it would still show "bad almanac".
I have also tried to upload a .al3 (SEM) file, with the same result.
Both files seem to upload, so I am not sure which one should be the correct one, or if both are. I am assuming the yuma because it has the .alm extension. (still a noob in this matter)

On a new development, the GT+ started showing satellites, it shows 10 satellites visible, zero tracked.
The UT+ regardless of the almanacs uploaded, still shows zero visible, zero tracked.

I am still trying to find a reference to the correct (expected) almanac file format and to the eventual calibration procedure referred previously.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:10 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org mailto:kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
Hi

If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue.
It may not be all of the issue ….

How old are these modules? They went through several
revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous
version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very
long time to come up with an almanac.

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> wrote:

@Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it should continue to work I guess.
I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on.
When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different input impedance.

@Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would require.
I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status.
I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it out, could help.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Hi

The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is.
If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data
for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off.

The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules.
They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours
(or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come
back to life …. who knows ….

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.
Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf
Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf
UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX
GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector
greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Hi there Everyone,
Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore
user and could assist.
I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since
the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock
to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands
correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help,
but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to.
Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do
not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?
Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hi It would not surprise me at all to find that a modern version of the almanac is different than the 1998 version. A lot has changed since then. Given that you can find these for < $10 on eBay. I would not invest a lot in them at this point …. Once you get them running, you will have roll over issues. Bob > On Sep 19, 2022, at 4:36 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > The modules are old. 1998/2000. > > I have left the UT+ running for about 36 Hrs. I have noticed that the battery on the UT+ is dead, so I am ordering a replacement. > However, while running powered for 36 hours I expected it would see "something". I wish there was a way to verify some of its internal information, to see if it was actually collecting something. > > The WinOncore software allows you to upload an almanac, and it talks about a .alm file extension, and on the .gov site I only found a latest_yuma.alm file, which I uploaded, but it would still show "bad almanac". > I have also tried to upload a .al3 (SEM) file, with the same result. > Both files seem to upload, so I am not sure which one should be the correct one, or if both are. I am assuming the yuma because it has the .alm extension. (still a noob in this matter) > > On a new development, the GT+ started showing satellites, it shows 10 satellites visible, zero tracked. > The UT+ regardless of the almanacs uploaded, still shows zero visible, zero tracked. > > I am still trying to find a reference to the correct (expected) almanac file format and to the eventual calibration procedure referred previously. > > Thanks, > Marcelo. > > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:10 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org <mailto:kb8tq@n1k.org>> wrote: > Hi > > If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue. > It may not be *all* of the issue …. > > How old are these modules? They went through several > revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous > version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very > long time to come up with an almanac. > > Bob > >> On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com <mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> @Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it should continue to work I guess. >> I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on. >> When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different input impedance. >> >> @Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would require. >> I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status. >> I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it out, could help. >> >> Thanks, >> Marcelo. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com>> wrote: >> Hi >> >> The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is. >> If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data >> for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off. >> >> The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules. >> They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours >> (or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come >> back to life …. who knows …. >> >> Bob >> >> > On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com>> wrote: >> > >> > Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. >> > >> > John >> > ----- >> > >> > On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: >> >> IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. >> >> I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. >> >> Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >> >> https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf <https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf> >> >> Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >> >> https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf <https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf> >> >> UT Plus model numbers: >> >> R5122U111x - right angle OSX >> >> R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery >> >> R5122U115x - straight OSX >> >> GT Plus model numbers: >> >> R3111G111x - standard version >> >> R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery >> >> R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector >> >> greg, w9gb >> >> == >> >> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 >> >> From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com <mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com>> >> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore >> >> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >> >> Hi there Everyone, >> >> Thanks for accepting me to this list. >> >> I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore >> >> user and could assist. >> >> I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a >> >> "baseboard" for timing purposes. >> >> One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. >> >> They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since >> >> the pre-pandemic era. >> >> Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock >> >> to any satellites. >> >> The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands >> >> correctly. >> >> I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. >> >> The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. >> >> I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. >> >> No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. >> >> I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. >> >> I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help, >> >> but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. >> >> At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, >> >> board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to. >> >> Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do >> >> not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra >> >> debug options? >> >> Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. >> >> Thanks a lot in advance, >> >> Marcelo. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com>

MD

Magnus Danielson

Tue, Sep 20, 2022 8:18 AM

Hi,

Not really. The format is the same. Subtle clarifications and use of
flag fields is however.

One aviation GPS receiver crashed whenever the flag was set as a new
satellite was introduced into the constellation. Considering the cost
and effort involved of recertifying it after a bugfix, it became a
hesitation to fix it. I think this was a learning experience to the air
industry, so I think they now have means to address it on more regular
basis, since I know that in more recent history the lack of timely
update has been the reason for GPS receiver problems, not the lack of
update as such. I will ask around on this.

It's the GPS III signals which will be very different, as it is packet
based.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 2022-09-20 00:27, Bob kb8tq via time-nuts wrote:

Hi

It would not surprise me at all to find that a modern version of the
almanac is different than the 1998 version. A lot has changed since
then.

Given that you can find these for < $10 on eBay. I would not invest
a lot in them at this point …. Once you get them running, you will
have roll over issues.

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 4:36 PM, Marcelo Dantas marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Bob,

The modules are old. 1998/2000.

I have left the UT+ running for about 36 Hrs. I have noticed that the battery on the UT+ is dead, so I am ordering a replacement.
However, while running powered for 36 hours I expected it would see "something". I wish there was a way to verify some of its internal information, to see if it was actually collecting something.

The WinOncore software allows you to upload an almanac, and it talks about a .alm file extension, and on the .gov site I only found a latest_yuma.alm file, which I uploaded, but it would still show "bad almanac".
I have also tried to upload a .al3 (SEM) file, with the same result.
Both files seem to upload, so I am not sure which one should be the correct one, or if both are. I am assuming the yuma because it has the .alm extension. (still a noob in this matter)

On a new development, the GT+ started showing satellites, it shows 10 satellites visible, zero tracked.
The UT+ regardless of the almanacs uploaded, still shows zero visible, zero tracked.

I am still trying to find a reference to the correct (expected) almanac file format and to the eventual calibration procedure referred previously.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:10 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org mailto:kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
Hi

If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue.
It may not be all of the issue ….

How old are these modules? They went through several
revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous
version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very
long time to come up with an almanac.

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> wrote:

@Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it should continue to work I guess.
I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on.
When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different input impedance.

@Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would require.
I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status.
I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it out, could help.

Thanks,
Marcelo.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Hi

The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is.
If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data
for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off.

The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules.
They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours
(or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come
back to life …. who knows ….

Bob

On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

John

On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:

IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.
Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf
Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf
UT Plus model numbers:
R5122U111x - right angle OSX
R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
R5122U115x - straight OSX
GT Plus model numbers:
R3111G111x - standard version
R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector
greg, w9gb

Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Hi there Everyone,
Thanks for accepting me to this list.
I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore
user and could assist.
I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
"baseboard" for timing purposes.
One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since
the pre-pandemic era.
Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock
to any satellites.
The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands
correctly.
I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help,
but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module,
board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to.
Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do
not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
debug options?
Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcelo.

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Hi, Not really. The format is the same. Subtle clarifications and use of flag fields is however. One aviation GPS receiver crashed whenever the flag was set as a new satellite was introduced into the constellation. Considering the cost and effort involved of recertifying it after a bugfix, it became a hesitation to fix it. I think this was a learning experience to the air industry, so I think they now have means to address it on more regular basis, since I know that in more recent history the lack of timely update has been the reason for GPS receiver problems, not the lack of update as such. I will ask around on this. It's the GPS III signals which will be very different, as it is packet based. Cheers, Magnus On 2022-09-20 00:27, Bob kb8tq via time-nuts wrote: > Hi > > It would not surprise me at all to find that a modern version of the > almanac is different than the 1998 version. A lot has changed since > then. > > Given that you can find these for < $10 on eBay. I would not invest > a lot in them at this point …. Once you get them running, you will > have roll over issues. > > Bob > >> On Sep 19, 2022, at 4:36 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Bob, >> >> The modules are old. 1998/2000. >> >> I have left the UT+ running for about 36 Hrs. I have noticed that the battery on the UT+ is dead, so I am ordering a replacement. >> However, while running powered for 36 hours I expected it would see "something". I wish there was a way to verify some of its internal information, to see if it was actually collecting something. >> >> The WinOncore software allows you to upload an almanac, and it talks about a .alm file extension, and on the .gov site I only found a latest_yuma.alm file, which I uploaded, but it would still show "bad almanac". >> I have also tried to upload a .al3 (SEM) file, with the same result. >> Both files seem to upload, so I am not sure which one should be the correct one, or if both are. I am assuming the yuma because it has the .alm extension. (still a noob in this matter) >> >> On a new development, the GT+ started showing satellites, it shows 10 satellites visible, zero tracked. >> The UT+ regardless of the almanacs uploaded, still shows zero visible, zero tracked. >> >> I am still trying to find a reference to the correct (expected) almanac file format and to the eventual calibration procedure referred previously. >> >> Thanks, >> Marcelo. >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:10 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org <mailto:kb8tq@n1k.org>> wrote: >> Hi >> >> If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue. >> It may not be *all* of the issue …. >> >> How old are these modules? They went through several >> revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous >> version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very >> long time to come up with an almanac. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com <mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> @Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it should continue to work I guess. >>> I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on. >>> When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different input impedance. >>> >>> @Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would require. >>> I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac" on its status. >>> I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it out, could help. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Marcelo. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com>> wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is. >>> If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data >>> for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off. >>> >>> The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules. >>> They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours >>> (or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come >>> back to life …. who knows …. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO drift. That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off for a long time. There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment required). I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now. >>>> >>>> John >>>> ----- >>>> >>>> On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote: >>>>> IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process. >>>>> I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna. >>>>> Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >>>>> https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf <https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf> >>>>> Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000) >>>>> https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf <https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf> >>>>> UT Plus model numbers: >>>>> R5122U111x - right angle OSX >>>>> R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery >>>>> R5122U115x - straight OSX >>>>> GT Plus model numbers: >>>>> R3111G111x - standard version >>>>> R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery >>>>> R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector >>>>> greg, w9gb >>>>> == >>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400 >>>>> From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com <mailto:marcelo.f.dantas@gmail.com>> >>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola Oncore >>>>> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >>>>> Hi there Everyone, >>>>> Thanks for accepting me to this list. >>>>> I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola Oncore >>>>> user and could assist. >>>>> I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a >>>>> "baseboard" for timing purposes. >>>>> One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112. >>>>> They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time" since >>>>> the pre-pandemic era. >>>>> Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't lock >>>>> to any satellites. >>>>> The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting commands >>>>> correctly. >>>>> I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna. >>>>> The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module. >>>>> I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours. >>>>> No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites. >>>>> I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change. >>>>> I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would help, >>>>> but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension. >>>>> At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system (module, >>>>> board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses to. >>>>> Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I do >>>>> not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra >>>>> debug options? >>>>> Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated. >>>>> Thanks a lot in advance, >>>>> Marcelo. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com <mailto:time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

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Re: Please help. Motorola Oncore

greg, w9gb

John

greg, w9gb

John

John

John

greg, w9gb

John

John

John

John

John