Hi I *knew* I'd seen a chart somewhere that was getting close to 1x10-11 at 1 second for the best of the group. It's figure B on page 7 of your FSM 2008 paper. Bob On Dec 26, 2009, at 10:36 AM, Robert Lutwak wrote: > I pay pretty close attention to what people in this field are saying, and I've never heard anyone say "we'll get to 1e-11 short term stability at 1 second real soon now." > > 1e-11 at 1 second is the XPRO spec (and 2X better than LPRO or PRS10). There are good (physics) reasons why those units all draw 100X more power than a CSAC. > > CSAC is intended for portable battery-powered operation. Surely your basement has the space and wallplug power to support an LPRO. (p.s. don't cool the damn thing, heat it). > > The cats were much happier during the CsIII development (see http://home.comcast.net/~rlutwak). It was bigger and warmer. Any Cat-Nuts out there who can help me find one with significantly lower SWAP? > > -RL > > At 10:08 AM 12/26/2009, you wrote: >> Hi >> >> 1x10-11 at 1 second, going down by tau^0.5. >> >> That makes them candidates for the basement system .... >> >> Bob >> >> On Dec 26, 2009, at 9:33 AM, Robert Lutwak wrote: >> >> > How "good" do you want? >> > >> > >> > At 09:13 AM 12/26/2009, you wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> >> >> They still seem to be at the stage of "we'll get to good short term stability at 1 second real soon now". >> >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 26, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Ronald Held wrote: >> >> >> >> > I read about this a while ago. Has anyone seen anything recent about >> >> > it, notably desktop or even portable units? >> >> > Ronald >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> >> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >> > and follow the instructions there. >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >> and follow the instructions there. >> > >> > >> > >> > -RL >> > >> > ----------------------- >> > Robert Lutwak >> > Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center >> > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com (Business) >> > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) >> > (978) 232-1461 (Desk) >> > (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) >> > (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) >> > >> > >> > >> > -RL >> > >> > ----------------------- >> > Robert Lutwak >> > Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center >> > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com (Business) >> > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) >> > (978) 232-1461 (Desk) >> > (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) >> > (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) >> > _______________________________________________ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > -RL > > ----------------------- > Robert Lutwak > Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com (Business) > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) > (978) 232-1461 (Desk) > (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) > (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) > > > > -RL > > ----------------------- > Robert Lutwak > Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com (Business) > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) > (978) 232-1461 (Desk) > (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) > (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Notwithstanding the performance of one physics package, I think it's safe to say that no-one is holding their breath waiting for a 1e-11 CSAC. That figure (5B) shows the Allan deviation of 10 physics packages (measured with optimal laboratory electronics) and you are correct that the best of the bunch is down around 2-3e-11 at 1-second. At that time, with low-power CSAC electronics, the performance of that same physics package was up around 1e-10 and most were in the 2-3e-10 range (see Figure 6), which would have led to a spec somewhere north of there, perhaps 3-4e-10. For your amusement, I just added a more recent paper (from the 2009 FCS/EFTF) to my WWW site. Figure 3 in that paper shows some more recent results with (newer, better, and lower power) electronics but similar physics package architecture. These days, typical CSAC instability is in the range of 8-10e-11 @ 1second, which might lead to a spec in the 1-3e-10 range. -RL At 11:41 AM 12/26/2009, you wrote: >Hi > >I *knew* I'd seen a chart somewhere that was getting close to >1x10-11 at 1 second for the best of the group. > >It's figure B on page 7 of your FSM 2008 paper. > >Bob > > >On Dec 26, 2009, at 10:36 AM, Robert Lutwak wrote: > > > I pay pretty close attention to what people in this field are > saying, and I've never heard anyone say "we'll get to 1e-11 short > term stability at 1 second real soon now." > > > > 1e-11 at 1 second is the XPRO spec (and 2X better than LPRO or > PRS10). There are good (physics) reasons why those units all draw > 100X more power than a CSAC. > > > > CSAC is intended for portable battery-powered operation. Surely > your basement has the space and wallplug power to support an LPRO. > (p.s. don't cool the damn thing, heat it). > > > > The cats were much happier during the CsIII development (see > http://home.comcast.net/~rlutwak). It was bigger and warmer. Any > Cat-Nuts out there who can help me find one with significantly lower SWAP? > > > > -RL > > > > At 10:08 AM 12/26/2009, you wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> 1x10-11 at 1 second, going down by tau^0.5. > >> > >> That makes them candidates for the basement system .... > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> On Dec 26, 2009, at 9:33 AM, Robert Lutwak wrote: > >> > >> > How "good" do you want? > >> > > >> > > >> > At 09:13 AM 12/26/2009, you wrote: > >> >> Hi > >> >> > >> >> They still seem to be at the stage of "we'll get to good > short term stability at 1 second real soon now". > >> >> > >> >> Bob > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Dec 26, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Ronald Held wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > I read about this a while ago. Has anyone seen anything recent about > >> >> > it, notably desktop or even portable units? > >> >> > Ronald > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> >> > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> >> > and follow the instructions there. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -RL > >> > > >> > ----------------------- > >> > Robert Lutwak > >> > Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center > >> > > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com > (Business) > >> > > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) > >> > (978) 232-1461 (Desk) > >> > (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) > >> > (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -RL > >> > > >> > ----------------------- > >> > Robert Lutwak > >> > Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center > >> > > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com > (Business) > >> > > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) > >> > (978) 232-1461 (Desk) > >> > (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) > >> > (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> > and follow the instructions there. > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > -RL > > > > ----------------------- > > Robert Lutwak > > Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center > > > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com > (Business) > > > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) > > (978) 232-1461 (Desk) > > (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) > > (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) > > > > > > > > -RL > > > > ----------------------- > > Robert Lutwak > > Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center > > > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com > (Business) > > > <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) > > (978) 232-1461 (Desk) > > (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) > > (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. -RL ----------------------- Robert Lutwak Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com (Business) <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) (978) 232-1461 (Desk) (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile) -RL ----------------------- Robert Lutwak Symmetricom - Technology Realization Center <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:RLutwak@Symmetricom.com>RLutwak@Symmetricom.com (Business) <mhtml:mid://00000000/mailto:Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu>Lutwak@Alum.mit.edu (Personal) (978) 232-1461 (Desk) (339) 927-7896 (Mobile) (978) 927-4099 (Facsimile)