Empathy List Archives

CT

Chuck Thompson

Tue, Nov 26, 2019 7:45 PM

Did you mean to say the City will be the owner of the camera? If the city were not the owner of the camera, in my view, the city is just licensing the use of the right of way to the university for its purposes and the city does not have any more FOIA responsibility for the data than what passes through the CATV system, the internet or the phone system of other licensees. Whether the public would be happy with the city for allowing this might be another story and from a political standpoint, I’d make sure the elected know what they’re doing.

From: Universitycities mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com On Behalf Of Blake, Betsy
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:35 PM
To: universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org
Subject: PII and University Traffic Cameras

One of the universities in our City is interested in placing a camera on City property near the City right-of-way to gather transportation data at one of our traffic circles (including license plates and photos of persons in vehicles and on foot). As you all know, such data (including someone’s comings and goings) is personally identifiable information (PII). The City will not have direct access to the information although it will be transmitted from the camera to the University over City-owned I-net cables. The City would own the equipment (camera, etc.) that is placed near the ROW. Neither Michigan nor the City has laws governing this type of PII (although it may be subject to FOIA). Any thoughts on how the City should handle this and what (if any) restrictions we should put on such PII (in connection with an MOU with the University)?

Many thanks,

Betsy Blake, Senior Assistant City Attorney
City of Ann Arbor | Guy C. Larcom City Hall | 301 E. Huron, 3rd Floor ∙ Ann Arbor ∙ MI ∙ 48104
734.794.6187 (O) ∙ 734.994.4954 (F) | Internal Extension 41887
bblake@a2gov.org mailto:bblake@a2gov.org | www.a2gov.org http://www.a2gov.org
Please note that I cannot send or receive emails in excess of 25MB. If you need to send me an email with a large attachment, please contact me to arrange how to get the attachment(s) to me.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and protected from disclosure under the law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail, and delete/destroy all copies of the original message and attachments.

Did you mean to say the City will be the owner of the camera? If the city were not the owner of the camera, in my view, the city is just licensing the use of the right of way to the university for its purposes and the city does not have any more FOIA responsibility for the data than what passes through the CATV system, the internet or the phone system of other licensees. Whether the public would be happy with the city for allowing this might be another story and from a political standpoint, I’d make sure the elected know what they’re doing. From: Universitycities <mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com> On Behalf Of Blake, Betsy Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:35 PM To: universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org Subject: PII and University Traffic Cameras One of the universities in our City is interested in placing a camera on City property near the City right-of-way to gather transportation data at one of our traffic circles (including license plates and photos of persons in vehicles and on foot). As you all know, such data (including someone’s comings and goings) is personally identifiable information (PII). The City will not have direct access to the information although it will be transmitted from the camera to the University over City-owned I-net cables. The City would own the equipment (camera, etc.) that is placed near the ROW. Neither Michigan nor the City has laws governing this type of PII (although it may be subject to FOIA). Any thoughts on how the City should handle this and what (if any) restrictions we should put on such PII (in connection with an MOU with the University)? Many thanks, Betsy Blake, Senior Assistant City Attorney City of Ann Arbor | Guy C. Larcom City Hall | 301 E. Huron, 3rd Floor ∙ Ann Arbor ∙ MI ∙ 48104 734.794.6187 (O) ∙ 734.994.4954 (F) | Internal Extension 41887 bblake@a2gov.org<mailto:bblake@a2gov.org> | www.a2gov.org<http://www.a2gov.org> Please note that I cannot send or receive emails in excess of 25MB. If you need to send me an email with a large attachment, please contact me to arrange how to get the attachment(s) to me. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and protected from disclosure under the law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail, and delete/destroy all copies of the original message and attachments.

MM

May, Michael

Tue, Nov 26, 2019 9:56 PM

Betsy:

I’m not sure I understand your concern. There is ample precedent for the rule that actions taken in public may be photographed or filmed because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. So no claim of an invasion of privacy would wash. We have cameras in numerous locations and they have been helpful in solving crimes.

Unless there is some other law in Michigan or an ordinance that restricts the release of PII in a public record, I don’t see the issue. If there is such a law, then I agree with Chuck that you ought to rent space to the school, make the University collect the data and just use your facilities to transmit it. Then it is their headache.

[cid:image003.jpg@01D5A472.0733A5F0]

Michael P. May
City Attorney ~ City of Madison
210 Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, ~ Room 401
Madison, WI 53703
608-266-4511
FAX: 608-267-8715
mmay@cityofmadison.com mailto:mmay@cityofmadison.com

PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This electronic message is intended only for the designated recipient(s). It may contain privileged or confidential information and should not be disclosed to third parties without our express permission. If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this message in error and review, dissemination or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the original message and destroy any electronic or printed copies of this message. Thank you.

From: Universitycities universitycities-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Chuck Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:45 PM
To: Blake, Betsy BBlake@a2gov.org; universitycities@lists.imla.org
Subject: Re: [Universitycities] PII and University Traffic Cameras

Did you mean to say the City will be the owner of the camera? If the city were not the owner of the camera, in my view, the city is just licensing the use of the right of way to the university for its purposes and the city does not have any more FOIA responsibility for the data than what passes through the CATV system, the internet or the phone system of other licensees. Whether the public would be happy with the city for allowing this might be another story and from a political standpoint, I’d make sure the elected know what they’re doing.

From: Universitycities <mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com mailto:mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com> On Behalf Of Blake, Betsy
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:35 PM
To: universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org mailto:universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org
Subject: PII and University Traffic Cameras

One of the universities in our City is interested in placing a camera on City property near the City right-of-way to gather transportation data at one of our traffic circles (including license plates and photos of persons in vehicles and on foot). As you all know, such data (including someone’s comings and goings) is personally identifiable information (PII). The City will not have direct access to the information although it will be transmitted from the camera to the University over City-owned I-net cables. The City would own the equipment (camera, etc.) that is placed near the ROW. Neither Michigan nor the City has laws governing this type of PII (although it may be subject to FOIA). Any thoughts on how the City should handle this and what (if any) restrictions we should put on such PII (in connection with an MOU with the University)?

Many thanks,

Betsy Blake, Senior Assistant City Attorney
City of Ann Arbor | Guy C. Larcom City Hall | 301 E. Huron, 3rd Floor ∙ Ann Arbor ∙ MI ∙ 48104
734.794.6187 (O) ∙ 734.994.4954 (F) | Internal Extension 41887
bblake@a2gov.org mailto:bblake@a2gov.org | www.a2gov.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.a2gov.org&d=DwMGaQ&c=byefhD2ZumMFFQYPZBagUCDuBiM9Q9twmxaBM0hCgII&r=OLI8hFjVxG1Sh4yTJK1DjGxa_tOCYs014hu9uSYbqwI&m=KBaI-pS1XjOwmWvCGvTykG62np9Tl8wCE0MqFZaVNJY&s=zMVEYtR24wcj-qL1IyfQzgZ3oxwZr9FThBybn1K5f74&e=
Please note that I cannot send or receive emails in excess of 25MB. If you need to send me an email with a large attachment, please contact me to arrange how to get the attachment(s) to me.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and protected from disclosure under the law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail, and delete/destroy all copies of the original message and attachments.

Betsy: I’m not sure I understand your concern. There is ample precedent for the rule that actions taken in public may be photographed or filmed because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. So no claim of an invasion of privacy would wash. We have cameras in numerous locations and they have been helpful in solving crimes. Unless there is some other law in Michigan or an ordinance that restricts the release of PII in a public record, I don’t see the issue. If there is such a law, then I agree with Chuck that you ought to rent space to the school, make the University collect the data and just use your facilities to transmit it. Then it is their headache. [cid:image003.jpg@01D5A472.0733A5F0] Michael P. May City Attorney ~ City of Madison 210 Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, ~ Room 401 Madison, WI 53703 608-266-4511 FAX: 608-267-8715 mmay@cityofmadison.com<mailto:mmay@cityofmadison.com> PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This electronic message is intended only for the designated recipient(s). It may contain privileged or confidential information and should not be disclosed to third parties without our express permission. If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this message in error and review, dissemination or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the original message and destroy any electronic or printed copies of this message. Thank you. From: Universitycities <universitycities-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Chuck Thompson Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:45 PM To: Blake, Betsy <BBlake@a2gov.org>; universitycities@lists.imla.org Subject: Re: [Universitycities] PII and University Traffic Cameras Did you mean to say the City will be the owner of the camera? If the city were not the owner of the camera, in my view, the city is just licensing the use of the right of way to the university for its purposes and the city does not have any more FOIA responsibility for the data than what passes through the CATV system, the internet or the phone system of other licensees. Whether the public would be happy with the city for allowing this might be another story and from a political standpoint, I’d make sure the elected know what they’re doing. From: Universitycities <mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com<mailto:mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com>> On Behalf Of Blake, Betsy Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:35 PM To: universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org<mailto:universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org> Subject: PII and University Traffic Cameras One of the universities in our City is interested in placing a camera on City property near the City right-of-way to gather transportation data at one of our traffic circles (including license plates and photos of persons in vehicles and on foot). As you all know, such data (including someone’s comings and goings) is personally identifiable information (PII). The City will not have direct access to the information although it will be transmitted from the camera to the University over City-owned I-net cables. The City would own the equipment (camera, etc.) that is placed near the ROW. Neither Michigan nor the City has laws governing this type of PII (although it may be subject to FOIA). Any thoughts on how the City should handle this and what (if any) restrictions we should put on such PII (in connection with an MOU with the University)? Many thanks, Betsy Blake, Senior Assistant City Attorney City of Ann Arbor | Guy C. Larcom City Hall | 301 E. Huron, 3rd Floor ∙ Ann Arbor ∙ MI ∙ 48104 734.794.6187 (O) ∙ 734.994.4954 (F) | Internal Extension 41887 bblake@a2gov.org<mailto:bblake@a2gov.org> | www.a2gov.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.a2gov.org&d=DwMGaQ&c=byefhD2ZumMFFQYPZBagUCDuBiM9Q9twmxaBM0hCgII&r=OLI8hFjVxG1Sh4yTJK1DjGxa_tOCYs014hu9uSYbqwI&m=KBaI-pS1XjOwmWvCGvTykG62np9Tl8wCE0MqFZaVNJY&s=zMVEYtR24wcj-qL1IyfQzgZ3oxwZr9FThBybn1K5f74&e=> Please note that I cannot send or receive emails in excess of 25MB. If you need to send me an email with a large attachment, please contact me to arrange how to get the attachment(s) to me. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and protected from disclosure under the law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail, and delete/destroy all copies of the original message and attachments.

CT

Chuck Thompson

Tue, Nov 26, 2019 10:54 PM

Michael, I agree with you on the case law and privacy expectations in public places. Where I had a concern was the city allowing a third party to photograph people and collect data from a political perspective and in terms of the arrangement whether the city should be owning the camera and transferring the data to the university rather than licensing the university to operate a camera on or in the ROW. If the city were to operate and use the camera, I think not a problem as apparently is true in Madison, but sharing the results with the university may be more problematic if it’s a city owned camera. Something strikes me as odd in this arrangement and I think a political hot potato. Chuck

From: May, Michael MMay@cityofmadison.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 4:56 PM
To: Chuck Thompson cthompson@imla.org; Blake, Betsy BBlake@a2gov.org; universitycities@lists.imla.org
Subject: RE: PII and University Traffic Cameras

Betsy:

I’m not sure I understand your concern. There is ample precedent for the rule that actions taken in public may be photographed or filmed because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. So no claim of an invasion of privacy would wash. We have cameras in numerous locations and they have been helpful in solving crimes.

Unless there is some other law in Michigan or an ordinance that restricts the release of PII in a public record, I don’t see the issue. If there is such a law, then I agree with Chuck that you ought to rent space to the school, make the University collect the data and just use your facilities to transmit it. Then it is their headache.

[cid:image001.jpg@01D5A482.823CBCE0]
Michael P. May
City Attorney ~ City of Madison
210 Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, ~ Room 401
Madison, WI 53703
608-266-4511
FAX: 608-267-8715
mmay@cityofmadison.com mailto:mmay@cityofmadison.com

PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This electronic message is intended only for the designated recipient(s). It may contain privileged or confidential information and should not be disclosed to third parties without our express permission. If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this message in error and review, dissemination or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the original message and destroy any electronic or printed copies of this message. Thank you.

From: Universitycities <universitycities-bounces@lists.imla.org mailto:universitycities-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Chuck Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:45 PM
To: Blake, Betsy <BBlake@a2gov.org mailto:BBlake@a2gov.org>; universitycities@lists.imla.org mailto:universitycities@lists.imla.org
Subject: Re: [Universitycities] PII and University Traffic Cameras

Did you mean to say the City will be the owner of the camera? If the city were not the owner of the camera, in my view, the city is just licensing the use of the right of way to the university for its purposes and the city does not have any more FOIA responsibility for the data than what passes through the CATV system, the internet or the phone system of other licensees. Whether the public would be happy with the city for allowing this might be another story and from a political standpoint, I’d make sure the elected know what they’re doing.

From: Universitycities <mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com mailto:mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com> On Behalf Of Blake, Betsy
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:35 PM
To: universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org mailto:universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org
Subject: PII and University Traffic Cameras

One of the universities in our City is interested in placing a camera on City property near the City right-of-way to gather transportation data at one of our traffic circles (including license plates and photos of persons in vehicles and on foot). As you all know, such data (including someone’s comings and goings) is personally identifiable information (PII). The City will not have direct access to the information although it will be transmitted from the camera to the University over City-owned I-net cables. The City would own the equipment (camera, etc.) that is placed near the ROW. Neither Michigan nor the City has laws governing this type of PII (although it may be subject to FOIA). Any thoughts on how the City should handle this and what (if any) restrictions we should put on such PII (in connection with an MOU with the University)?

Many thanks,

Betsy Blake, Senior Assistant City Attorney
City of Ann Arbor | Guy C. Larcom City Hall | 301 E. Huron, 3rd Floor ∙ Ann Arbor ∙ MI ∙ 48104
734.794.6187 (O) ∙ 734.994.4954 (F) | Internal Extension 41887
bblake@a2gov.org mailto:bblake@a2gov.org | www.a2gov.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.a2gov.org&d=DwMGaQ&c=byefhD2ZumMFFQYPZBagUCDuBiM9Q9twmxaBM0hCgII&r=OLI8hFjVxG1Sh4yTJK1DjGxa_tOCYs014hu9uSYbqwI&m=KBaI-pS1XjOwmWvCGvTykG62np9Tl8wCE0MqFZaVNJY&s=zMVEYtR24wcj-qL1IyfQzgZ3oxwZr9FThBybn1K5f74&e=
Please note that I cannot send or receive emails in excess of 25MB. If you need to send me an email with a large attachment, please contact me to arrange how to get the attachment(s) to me.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and protected from disclosure under the law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail, and delete/destroy all copies of the original message and attachments.

Michael, I agree with you on the case law and privacy expectations in public places. Where I had a concern was the city allowing a third party to photograph people and collect data from a political perspective and in terms of the arrangement whether the city should be owning the camera and transferring the data to the university rather than licensing the university to operate a camera on or in the ROW. If the city were to operate and use the camera, I think not a problem as apparently is true in Madison, but sharing the results with the university may be more problematic if it’s a city owned camera. Something strikes me as odd in this arrangement and I think a political hot potato. Chuck From: May, Michael <MMay@cityofmadison.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 4:56 PM To: Chuck Thompson <cthompson@imla.org>; Blake, Betsy <BBlake@a2gov.org>; universitycities@lists.imla.org Subject: RE: PII and University Traffic Cameras Betsy: I’m not sure I understand your concern. There is ample precedent for the rule that actions taken in public may be photographed or filmed because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. So no claim of an invasion of privacy would wash. We have cameras in numerous locations and they have been helpful in solving crimes. Unless there is some other law in Michigan or an ordinance that restricts the release of PII in a public record, I don’t see the issue. If there is such a law, then I agree with Chuck that you ought to rent space to the school, make the University collect the data and just use your facilities to transmit it. Then it is their headache. [cid:image001.jpg@01D5A482.823CBCE0] Michael P. May City Attorney ~ City of Madison 210 Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, ~ Room 401 Madison, WI 53703 608-266-4511 FAX: 608-267-8715 mmay@cityofmadison.com<mailto:mmay@cityofmadison.com> PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This electronic message is intended only for the designated recipient(s). It may contain privileged or confidential information and should not be disclosed to third parties without our express permission. If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this message in error and review, dissemination or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the original message and destroy any electronic or printed copies of this message. Thank you. From: Universitycities <universitycities-bounces@lists.imla.org<mailto:universitycities-bounces@lists.imla.org>> On Behalf Of Chuck Thompson Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:45 PM To: Blake, Betsy <BBlake@a2gov.org<mailto:BBlake@a2gov.org>>; universitycities@lists.imla.org<mailto:universitycities@lists.imla.org> Subject: Re: [Universitycities] PII and University Traffic Cameras Did you mean to say the City will be the owner of the camera? If the city were not the owner of the camera, in my view, the city is just licensing the use of the right of way to the university for its purposes and the city does not have any more FOIA responsibility for the data than what passes through the CATV system, the internet or the phone system of other licensees. Whether the public would be happy with the city for allowing this might be another story and from a political standpoint, I’d make sure the elected know what they’re doing. From: Universitycities <mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com<mailto:mailman-bounces@mm2.emwd.com>> On Behalf Of Blake, Betsy Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:35 PM To: universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org<mailto:universitycities-owner@lists.imla.org> Subject: PII and University Traffic Cameras One of the universities in our City is interested in placing a camera on City property near the City right-of-way to gather transportation data at one of our traffic circles (including license plates and photos of persons in vehicles and on foot). As you all know, such data (including someone’s comings and goings) is personally identifiable information (PII). The City will not have direct access to the information although it will be transmitted from the camera to the University over City-owned I-net cables. The City would own the equipment (camera, etc.) that is placed near the ROW. Neither Michigan nor the City has laws governing this type of PII (although it may be subject to FOIA). Any thoughts on how the City should handle this and what (if any) restrictions we should put on such PII (in connection with an MOU with the University)? Many thanks, Betsy Blake, Senior Assistant City Attorney City of Ann Arbor | Guy C. Larcom City Hall | 301 E. Huron, 3rd Floor ∙ Ann Arbor ∙ MI ∙ 48104 734.794.6187 (O) ∙ 734.994.4954 (F) | Internal Extension 41887 bblake@a2gov.org<mailto:bblake@a2gov.org> | www.a2gov.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.a2gov.org&d=DwMGaQ&c=byefhD2ZumMFFQYPZBagUCDuBiM9Q9twmxaBM0hCgII&r=OLI8hFjVxG1Sh4yTJK1DjGxa_tOCYs014hu9uSYbqwI&m=KBaI-pS1XjOwmWvCGvTykG62np9Tl8wCE0MqFZaVNJY&s=zMVEYtR24wcj-qL1IyfQzgZ3oxwZr9FThBybn1K5f74&e=> Please note that I cannot send or receive emails in excess of 25MB. If you need to send me an email with a large attachment, please contact me to arrange how to get the attachment(s) to me. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and protected from disclosure under the law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail, and delete/destroy all copies of the original message and attachments.