Re: [time-nuts] Confusion over Thunderbolt - noob is going crazy
Taka -
The majority of the surplus GPSDO units come from the mobile/cellular telecommunication companies since the late 1990s. Surplus equipment occurs due to Service advances (2G—>3G—>4G/LTE—>5G), Technology upgrades/obsolescence, and Consolidation/merger of telecom companies.
NO Distinct Advantage in owning the Trimble Thunderbolt models versus other options,
some would note a few disadvantages (now 10 years later, like 1024-week rollover).
A large number of Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Oscillators (GPSDO) appeared on the surplus market in 2007 and 2008. Majority of these were the “THIN Model” (no internal DC-DC converter).
At that time (2008) TAPR Time-Nuts had a Group Buy, and offered a KIT (~ $225).
Tom Van Baak (tvb) and other members of Time-Nuts tested units and packaged these with a tri-voltage (+5, +12, -12) power supply for Group Buy participants.
http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tapr-tbolt/
W6AER built (DIY) this Rack Case for his surplus Thunderbolt & power supply.
https://w6aer.com/10mhz-gps-disciplined-oscillator-gpsdo-trimble-thunderbolt/
The RED Thunderbolt model has a Larger case because it contains the SMPS (24V to Tri-Voltage) as well as the GPSDO (THICK model).
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10015/
This specific model is no longer mfg. or supported by Trimble (no firmware updates provided). Surplus “Red” units have appeared from 911 telephone centers (past 5 years), since the RED model does not handle the 1024-week rollover. The “cheapest” has been ~$250 (2018 price, I paid) for a surplus unit from a Pennsylvania 911 center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_Week_Number_Rollover
The Lady Heather software (Mark Sims) “notes & corrects” the 1024-week rollover occurrence with these Trimble units, on its computer display.
ANY OTHER Solution would also have to “Correct” for the 1024-week rollover.
—
The BLUE Thunderbolt E model is Current Trimble Production ($$), hence RARELY seen as Surplus. Trimble refreshed their hardware, simplifying design (newer components).
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383329/
Trimble Thunderbolt-E Product Page
https://www.trimble.com/Timing/thunderbolt-e.aspx
THUNDERBOLT Frequently Asked Questions (from Group Buy, a decade ago).
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=time-nuts-thunderbolt-gpsdo-group-buy
g. beat, w9gb
chicago
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 04:02:56 +0000 (UTC)
From: Taka Kamiya tkamiya9@yahoo.com
To: Time Nuts Group time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Confusion over Thunderbolt - noob is going crazy
I have several GPSDO, BUT I don't have a TRUE Trimble Thunderbolt. I want one.
There seem to be infinite variations of them. So far (I have been looking for a week), there are no good summary (or even a summary) of various types and how they are different.
I know there is a thin type that looks to be 1" or so thick, and thick type that is about double that. I know one model has a Blue label (Thunderbolt E) and an earlier model had a Red Label (Thunderbolt).
I know there are differences in the Internal Crystal Oscillator/Oven.
Spending $1500 for new one is out of question, but price seems to vary from $150 to $500 for used ones. Since most of these surplus units now come from China, I'd think they are reclaimed equipment. Is this assumption right?
Any reliable source??
I am a bit skeptical with the surplus market the way it is. Are they all telecom quality??
Thank you very much.
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
You mentioned "this particular model," referring to the RED version, is no longer manufactured or supported. (no firmware support) But does that mean ones OLDER than that is still supported for firmware upgrades? Where do I go on Trimble's website? There was nothing on firmware under "support".
Thank you for helping out this noob!
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
On Friday, November 15, 2019, 2:48:00 PM EST, Gregory Beat via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Taka -
The majority of the surplus GPSDO units come from the mobile/cellular telecommunication companies since the late 1990s. Surplus equipment occurs due to Service advances (2G—>3G—>4G/LTE—>5G), Technology upgrades/obsolescence, and Consolidation/merger of telecom companies.
NO Distinct Advantage in owning the Trimble Thunderbolt models versus other options,
some would note a few disadvantages (now 10 years later, like 1024-week rollover).
A large number of Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Oscillators (GPSDO) appeared on the surplus market in 2007 and 2008. Majority of these were the “THIN Model” (no internal DC-DC converter).
At that time (2008) TAPR Time-Nuts had a Group Buy, and offered a KIT (~ $225).
Tom Van Baak (tvb) and other members of Time-Nuts tested units and packaged these with a tri-voltage (+5, +12, -12) power supply for Group Buy participants.
http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tapr-tbolt/
W6AER built (DIY) this Rack Case for his surplus Thunderbolt & power supply.
https://w6aer.com/10mhz-gps-disciplined-oscillator-gpsdo-trimble-thunderbolt/
The RED Thunderbolt model has a Larger case because it contains the SMPS (24V to Tri-Voltage) as well as the GPSDO (THICK model).
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10015/
This specific model is no longer mfg. or supported by Trimble (no firmware updates provided). Surplus “Red” units have appeared from 911 telephone centers (past 5 years), since the RED model does not handle the 1024-week rollover. The “cheapest” has been ~$250 (2018 price, I paid) for a surplus unit from a Pennsylvania 911 center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_Week_Number_Rollover
The Lady Heather software (Mark Sims) “notes & corrects” the 1024-week rollover occurrence with these Trimble units, on its computer display.
ANY OTHER Solution would also have to “Correct” for the 1024-week rollover.
—
The BLUE Thunderbolt E model is Current Trimble Production ($$), hence RARELY seen as Surplus. Trimble refreshed their hardware, simplifying design (newer components).
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383329/
Trimble Thunderbolt-E Product Page
https://www.trimble.com/Timing/thunderbolt-e.aspx
THUNDERBOLT Frequently Asked Questions (from Group Buy, a decade ago).
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=time-nuts-thunderbolt-gpsdo-group-buy
g. beat, w9gb
chicago
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 04:02:56 +0000 (UTC)
From: Taka Kamiya tkamiya9@yahoo.com
To: Time Nuts Group time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Confusion over Thunderbolt - noob is going crazy
I have several GPSDO, BUT I don't have a TRUE Trimble Thunderbolt. I want one.
There seem to be infinite variations of them. So far (I have been looking for a week), there are no good summary (or even a summary) of various types and how they are different.
I know there is a thin type that looks to be 1" or so thick, and thick type that is about double that. I know one model has a Blue label (Thunderbolt E) and an earlier model had a Red Label (Thunderbolt).
I know there are differences in the Internal Crystal Oscillator/Oven.
Spending $1500 for new one is out of question, but price seems to vary from $150 to $500 for used ones. Since most of these surplus units now come from China, I'd think they are reclaimed equipment. Is this assumption right?
Any reliable source??
I am a bit skeptical with the surplus market the way it is. Are they all telecom quality??
Thank you very much.
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
None of the GPSDO’s commonly available on eBay have firmware updates available for them.
They also pretty much all do not have schematics or service manuals. It is rare to find a model
that has an operating manual.
Bob
On Nov 15, 2019, at 3:20 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
You mentioned "this particular model," referring to the RED version, is no longer manufactured or supported. (no firmware support) But does that mean ones OLDER than that is still supported for firmware upgrades? Where do I go on Trimble's website? There was nothing on firmware under "support".
Thank you for helping out this noob!
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
On Friday, November 15, 2019, 2:48:00 PM EST, Gregory Beat via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Taka -
The majority of the surplus GPSDO units come from the mobile/cellular telecommunication companies since the late 1990s. Surplus equipment occurs due to Service advances (2G—>3G—>4G/LTE—>5G), Technology upgrades/obsolescence, and Consolidation/merger of telecom companies.
NO Distinct Advantage in owning the Trimble Thunderbolt models versus other options,
some would note a few disadvantages (now 10 years later, like 1024-week rollover).
A large number of Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Oscillators (GPSDO) appeared on the surplus market in 2007 and 2008. Majority of these were the “THIN Model” (no internal DC-DC converter).
At that time (2008) TAPR Time-Nuts had a Group Buy, and offered a KIT (~ $225).
Tom Van Baak (tvb) and other members of Time-Nuts tested units and packaged these with a tri-voltage (+5, +12, -12) power supply for Group Buy participants.
http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tapr-tbolt/
W6AER built (DIY) this Rack Case for his surplus Thunderbolt & power supply.
https://w6aer.com/10mhz-gps-disciplined-oscillator-gpsdo-trimble-thunderbolt/
The RED Thunderbolt model has a Larger case because it contains the SMPS (24V to Tri-Voltage) as well as the GPSDO (THICK model).
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10015/
This specific model is no longer mfg. or supported by Trimble (no firmware updates provided). Surplus “Red” units have appeared from 911 telephone centers (past 5 years), since the RED model does not handle the 1024-week rollover. The “cheapest” has been ~$250 (2018 price, I paid) for a surplus unit from a Pennsylvania 911 center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_Week_Number_Rollover
The Lady Heather software (Mark Sims) “notes & corrects” the 1024-week rollover occurrence with these Trimble units, on its computer display.
ANY OTHER Solution would also have to “Correct” for the 1024-week rollover.
—
The BLUE Thunderbolt E model is Current Trimble Production ($$), hence RARELY seen as Surplus. Trimble refreshed their hardware, simplifying design (newer components).
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383329/
Trimble Thunderbolt-E Product Page
https://www.trimble.com/Timing/thunderbolt-e.aspx
THUNDERBOLT Frequently Asked Questions (from Group Buy, a decade ago).
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=time-nuts-thunderbolt-gpsdo-group-buy
g. beat, w9gb
chicago
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 04:02:56 +0000 (UTC)
From: Taka Kamiya tkamiya9@yahoo.com
To: Time Nuts Group time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Confusion over Thunderbolt - noob is going crazy
I have several GPSDO, BUT I don't have a TRUE Trimble Thunderbolt. I want one.
There seem to be infinite variations of them. So far (I have been looking for a week), there are no good summary (or even a summary) of various types and how they are different.
I know there is a thin type that looks to be 1" or so thick, and thick type that is about double that. I know one model has a Blue label (Thunderbolt E) and an earlier model had a Red Label (Thunderbolt).
I know there are differences in the Internal Crystal Oscillator/Oven.
Spending $1500 for new one is out of question, but price seems to vary from $150 to $500 for used ones. Since most of these surplus units now come from China, I'd think they are reclaimed equipment. Is this assumption right?
Any reliable source??
I am a bit skeptical with the surplus market the way it is. Are they all telecom quality??
Thank you very much.
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
As far as I'm aware, the Thunderbolt E models are the only one ones
with firmware new enough to handle the WNRO. Even the single-oven
OXCO version of the E is EOL, but it at least is new enough.
I'm also pretty sure the Es have BNC connectors, at least both of mine do.
-Dustin
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:30 PM Taka Kamiya via time-nuts
time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
You mentioned "this particular model," referring to the RED version, is no longer manufactured or supported. (no firmware support) But does that mean ones OLDER than that is still supported for firmware upgrades? Where do I go on Trimble's website? There was nothing on firmware under "support".
Thank you for helping out this noob!
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
On Friday, November 15, 2019, 2:48:00 PM EST, Gregory Beat via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Taka -
The majority of the surplus GPSDO units come from the mobile/cellular telecommunication companies since the late 1990s. Surplus equipment occurs due to Service advances (2G—>3G—>4G/LTE—>5G), Technology upgrades/obsolescence, and Consolidation/merger of telecom companies.
NO Distinct Advantage in owning the Trimble Thunderbolt models versus other options,
some would note a few disadvantages (now 10 years later, like 1024-week rollover).
A large number of Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Oscillators (GPSDO) appeared on the surplus market in 2007 and 2008. Majority of these were the “THIN Model” (no internal DC-DC converter).
At that time (2008) TAPR Time-Nuts had a Group Buy, and offered a KIT (~ $225).
Tom Van Baak (tvb) and other members of Time-Nuts tested units and packaged these with a tri-voltage (+5, +12, -12) power supply for Group Buy participants.
http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tapr-tbolt/
W6AER built (DIY) this Rack Case for his surplus Thunderbolt & power supply.
https://w6aer.com/10mhz-gps-disciplined-oscillator-gpsdo-trimble-thunderbolt/
The RED Thunderbolt model has a Larger case because it contains the SMPS (24V to Tri-Voltage) as well as the GPSDO (THICK model).
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10015/
This specific model is no longer mfg. or supported by Trimble (no firmware updates provided). Surplus “Red” units have appeared from 911 telephone centers (past 5 years), since the RED model does not handle the 1024-week rollover. The “cheapest” has been ~$250 (2018 price, I paid) for a surplus unit from a Pennsylvania 911 center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_Week_Number_Rollover
The Lady Heather software (Mark Sims) “notes & corrects” the 1024-week rollover occurrence with these Trimble units, on its computer display.
ANY OTHER Solution would also have to “Correct” for the 1024-week rollover.
—
The BLUE Thunderbolt E model is Current Trimble Production ($$), hence RARELY seen as Surplus. Trimble refreshed their hardware, simplifying design (newer components).
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383329/
Trimble Thunderbolt-E Product Page
https://www.trimble.com/Timing/thunderbolt-e.aspx
THUNDERBOLT Frequently Asked Questions (from Group Buy, a decade ago).
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=time-nuts-thunderbolt-gpsdo-group-buy
g. beat, w9gb
chicago
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 04:02:56 +0000 (UTC)
From: Taka Kamiya tkamiya9@yahoo.com
To: Time Nuts Group time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Confusion over Thunderbolt - noob is going crazy
I have several GPSDO, BUT I don't have a TRUE Trimble Thunderbolt. I want one.
There seem to be infinite variations of them. So far (I have been looking for a week), there are no good summary (or even a summary) of various types and how they are different.
I know there is a thin type that looks to be 1" or so thick, and thick type that is about double that. I know one model has a Blue label (Thunderbolt E) and an earlier model had a Red Label (Thunderbolt).
I know there are differences in the Internal Crystal Oscillator/Oven.
Spending $1500 for new one is out of question, but price seems to vary from $150 to $500 for used ones. Since most of these surplus units now come from China, I'd think they are reclaimed equipment. Is this assumption right?
Any reliable source??
I am a bit skeptical with the surplus market the way it is. Are they all telecom quality??
Thank you very much.
(Mr.) Taka Kamiya
KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.