My earlier response to this succession of posts was not meant as a slur to Jim Lieshman, (I enjoy reading his stuff) it was a poke at PAE and what I think is a marketing strategy dictated by supersalesman. IMO, people sometimes buy boats the same way they watch television and very often they're also watching survivor and championship wrestling (btw, the greatest example of salesmanship ever). I, REALLY DO, think that Nordhaven makes a great offshore boat, and am envious of folks that have them. But, they ain't perfect, nor is any boat I've owned. I don't have a problem telling anyone about the shortcomings of my stuff, be it a truck, car, dog, horse or boat. As a matter of fact, the biggest problem I have selling something is that I tell folks what I don't like about it.