Question about TSC5110
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as simple as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during the swap. I think a swap-back is worth trying.
As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
Wilko
On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
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Re: the board-swapping phenonenon; I'm not familiar with the TSC5119 but if one swapped boards between a non-functional system and a functional system, I'd strongly suspect the board connectors.
DaveD
KC0WJN
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
On Jun 15, 2024, at 17:56, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
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Thanks for the suggestions!
The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They are available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I have ordered some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't looking for a large DIP package to contain a battery. Live and learn. I am interested to see if the batteries are good in the available "new" parts, since they are no longer made.
At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as simple as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during the swap. I think a swap-back is worth trying.
As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
Wilko
On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
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These timekeeper devices were used in a number of HP products in the 90s,
typically digital scopes and the 53310A MDA. A later variant has the
battery in a removable piggyback part but those replaceable parts are also
proprietary so replacement is still a nuisance.
A number of people have tried to find a solution and there are rebuilds
with cion cells, hacked apart ICs with soldered on batteries, etc. Some of
the devices are battery-backed memory, some have clock/calendar chips etc.
and the replacement PCB option doesn't cover all the variants.
https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-1386-1-8k-replacement-for-dallas-ds1386-module/
https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-48t08-1-repair-board-module/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svPNxILeQEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZJDlNoJk7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjjtMWErw8
On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 12:13 AM Jim Schatzman via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions!
The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They are
available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I have ordered
some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't looking for a large
DIP package to contain a battery. Live and learn. I am interested to see
if the batteries are good in the available "new" parts, since they are no
longer made.
At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as simple
as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during the swap.
I think a swap-back is worth trying.
As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL chip
in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li batteries
in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires swapping the
entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but generally last
longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
Wilko
On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high
temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed
the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave
the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes
in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started
working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't
change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I
can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I
recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze
up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both
units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
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Hi Jim;
I am not sure about the exact part number, but if I remenber correctly these use a RTC (real time clock chip) that look a lot like a Dallas memory chip
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/M48T58Y-70PC1/361258
M48T58Y-70PC1 | DigiKey Electronicshttps://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/M48T58Y-70PC1/361258
Order today, ships today. M48T58Y-70PC1 – Real Time Clock (RTC) IC Clock/Calendar Parallel 28-DIP Module (0.600", 15.24mm) from STMicroelectronics. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.
www.digikey.com
As far as swapping the board, perhaps it was just a touch of oxidation on the edge connector. You could try swapping them back and see what happens? Although I have seen several TSC5110A exhibit this due to a bad power supply.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Tom Knox
SR Test and Measurement Engineer
Phoenix Research Group / Ascent Concepts and Technology
4870 Meredith Way Apt 102
Boulder, Co 80303
Formerly of:
357 Fox Lane
Superior Co 80027
303-554-0307
actast@hotmail.com
"Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of Justice" Both MLK and Albert Einstein
From: Jim Schatzman via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2024 5:06 PM
To: Wilko Bulte wkb@xs4all.nl; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: AC0XU (Jim) James.Schatzman@ac0xu.com; Jim Schatzman james.schatzman@futurelabusa.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Question about TSC5110
Thanks for the suggestions!
The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They are available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I have ordered some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't looking for a large DIP package to contain a battery. Live and learn. I am interested to see if the batteries are good in the available "new" parts, since they are no longer made.
At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as simple as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during the swap. I think a swap-back is worth trying.
As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
Wilko
On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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The constant rebooting makes me think that the power supply is failing. Leaky/bad capacitors would be the most common culprit.
—Glen
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 15, 2024, at 18:44, Adrian Godwin via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
These timekeeper devices were used in a number of HP products in the 90s,
typically digital scopes and the 53310A MDA. A later variant has the
battery in a removable piggyback part but those replaceable parts are also
proprietary so replacement is still a nuisance.
A number of people have tried to find a solution and there are rebuilds
with cion cells, hacked apart ICs with soldered on batteries, etc. Some of
the devices are battery-backed memory, some have clock/calendar chips etc.
and the replacement PCB option doesn't cover all the variants.
https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-1386-1-8k-replacement-for-dallas-ds1386-module/
https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-48t08-1-repair-board-module/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svPNxILeQEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZJDlNoJk7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjjtMWErw8
On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 12:13 AM Jim Schatzman via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions!
The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They are
available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I have ordered
some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't looking for a large
DIP package to contain a battery. Live and learn. I am interested to see
if the batteries are good in the available "new" parts, since they are no
longer made.
At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as simple
as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during the swap.
I think a swap-back is worth trying.
As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL chip
in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li batteries
in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires swapping the
entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but generally last
longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
Wilko
On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high
temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed
the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave
the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes
in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started
working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't
change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I
can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I
recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze
up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both
units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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I looked at the datasheet for the M48T86 which on Mouser is obsolete but
the datasheet says it is pin compatible with DS12887.
The DS12887 is also obsolete but they have a newer version DS12887+ and
it costs € 12,49.
Here is the link: https://mou.sr/4esFgeW
Regards,
Razvan
On 16/06/2024 01:06, Jim Schatzman via time-nuts wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions!
The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They are available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I have ordered some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't looking for a large DIP package to contain a battery. Live and learn. I am interested to see if the batteries are good in the available "new" parts, since they are no longer made.
At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as simple as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during the swap. I think a swap-back is worth trying.
As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
Wilko
On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I saw the DS12887+., but wasn't sure of its compatibility. Anyway, I will try it.
At 01:22 PM 6/16/2024, Razvan Popescu wrote:
I looked at the datasheet for the M48T86 which on Mouser is obsolete but
the datasheet says it is pin compatible with DS12887.
The DS12887 is also obsolete but they have a newer version DS12887+ and
it costs 12,49.
Here is the link: https://mou.sr/4esFgeW
Regards,
Razvan
On 16/06/2024 01:06, Jim Schatzman via time-nuts wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions!
The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They are available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I have ordered some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't looking for a large DIP package to contain a battery. Live and learn. I am interested to see if the batteries are good in the available "new" parts, since they are no longer made.
At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as simple as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during the swap. I think a swap-back is worth trying.
As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
Wilko
On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units started working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
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