Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
Fellow time-nuts,
It was a great pleasure to meet up with fellow time-nuts Tom Knox, Hank
(didn't get his last name unfortunatly), David Bengtson, Skip Withrow
and John Miles. We had a nice dinner together after the Symmetricom
open-house event. Good folks all over.
The Symmetricom event was very nice. They had a 5071A feeding a
distribution amp they built that then fed two inputs of one of their
TSC5125A. Lovely gear, wish I had one (of each). Sam Stein was hanging
around, got some tricky questions and I got to talk to him a little. I
asked him about that ATAN issue he had written about in one of his
papers, but he gave a good answer in that it wasn't as much the ATAN as
integrating issues after it, which for short intervals gave really bad
values regardless. He realized that maybe the wording didn't came out
right in that part, but ah well. Now I know at least.
During dinner John passed one of his TimePods around and we all got to
see it live. I now got mine from him, and John was kind enough to demo
it on his little portable lab, even if he was sleep depraved and
jet-lagged from his travel. Now I have a TimePod, and wants to play
around more with it... if I only could find the lab in the walking or
driving distance from here... :)
The first day of the conference have been good, folks like David Allan,
Mark Weiss and David Howe has been presenting, among other good
presenters. For most part, the first day have been a rather thorough
walk-through of the basics, even if they had to skip pages in the
presentation. For my own part, it has been more of a repetition coarse
so far, but good to see that it comes together like I suspected it to.
What I take with me as the biggest new thing was really the mechanism
behind flicker noise,
Getting to talk to Dr. Allan is also great, he is a friendly guy. We had
good exchange, and he loved my work on the Allan Deviation article on
Wikipedia. I got a chance to verify some of the points that I feel is
important, such as separation of noise and systematic effects, and that
the definition of the scale shall not be confused with the form of the
estimators (non-overlapping, overlapping, Hadamard, TOTALDEV, Theo etc.)
once bias-corrections have been done. He fully agreed with this, and he
seemed very happy that I paid attention to those details. He was a bit
annoyed with the state of the Modified Allan Deviation article, and I
confessed that I had started it but not fixed errors and completed it.
He seemed impressed by the amounts of hours that must had gone in to
writing it.
I really enjoyed all the presentations, and it feels like a very nice
event overall. I'll report on further developments.
I must also send out many thanks to Tom Knox, who has been a top notch
host to me the last couple of days.
I look forward to go out and visit Hank and his lab.
Now, a shower, breakfast and then day 2 of the NIST Time and Frequency
Seminars.
Cheers,
Magnus
After following posts for a number of years I have learned the Time-Nuts community are not only a good source of knowledge but more important a great group of people. But even knowing that I am a bit overwhelmed after personally meeting several Time Nuts. Of coure this is common knowledge to may of you long time members. That said the chance to get to know Magnus, David, John, and locals Hank and Skip has left me thinking.....
In my humble opinion it would be great to put together an annual gathering of the Time and Freq Community, perhaps in conjunction with NIST's annual Seminar. If the time I have spent with Magnus and the other visiting Time-Nuts is any indication I think a Time-Nuts gathering would quickly develop into the must attend event for people serious about time but the fantastic people researching it. I see this evolving not only a social gathering, but also a place for professions and amateurs to could showcase ideas and products.
Best Wishes;
Thomas Knox
1-303-554-0307
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 14:15:41 +0200
From: magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
Fellow time-nuts,
It was a great pleasure to meet up with fellow time-nuts Tom Knox, Hank
(didn't get his last name unfortunatly), David Bengtson, Skip Withrow
and John Miles. We had a nice dinner together after the Symmetricom
open-house event. Good folks all over.
The Symmetricom event was very nice. They had a 5071A feeding a
distribution amp they built that then fed two inputs of one of their
TSC5125A. Lovely gear, wish I had one (of each). Sam Stein was hanging
around, got some tricky questions and I got to talk to him a little. I
asked him about that ATAN issue he had written about in one of his
papers, but he gave a good answer in that it wasn't as much the ATAN as
integrating issues after it, which for short intervals gave really bad
values regardless. He realized that maybe the wording didn't came out
right in that part, but ah well. Now I know at least.
During dinner John passed one of his TimePods around and we all got to
see it live. I now got mine from him, and John was kind enough to demo
it on his little portable lab, even if he was sleep depraved and
jet-lagged from his travel. Now I have a TimePod, and wants to play
around more with it... if I only could find the lab in the walking or
driving distance from here... :)
The first day of the conference have been good, folks like David Allan,
Mark Weiss and David Howe has been presenting, among other good
presenters. For most part, the first day have been a rather thorough
walk-through of the basics, even if they had to skip pages in the
presentation. For my own part, it has been more of a repetition coarse
so far, but good to see that it comes together like I suspected it to.
What I take with me as the biggest new thing was really the mechanism
behind flicker noise,
Getting to talk to Dr. Allan is also great, he is a friendly guy. We had
good exchange, and he loved my work on the Allan Deviation article on
Wikipedia. I got a chance to verify some of the points that I feel is
important, such as separation of noise and systematic effects, and that
the definition of the scale shall not be confused with the form of the
estimators (non-overlapping, overlapping, Hadamard, TOTALDEV, Theo etc.)
once bias-corrections have been done. He fully agreed with this, and he
seemed very happy that I paid attention to those details. He was a bit
annoyed with the state of the Modified Allan Deviation article, and I
confessed that I had started it but not fixed errors and completed it.
He seemed impressed by the amounts of hours that must had gone in to
writing it.
I really enjoyed all the presentations, and it feels like a very nice
event overall. I'll report on further developments.
I must also send out many thanks to Tom Knox, who has been a top notch
host to me the last couple of days.
I look forward to go out and visit Hank and his lab.
Now, a shower, breakfast and then day 2 of the NIST Time and Frequency
Seminars.
Cheers,
Magnus
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Tom,
Agreed. We've given this some thought and I've polled people in the past. The issue is usually location and budgets so nothing has ever happened. Note that besides the NIST conference there are several other venues where time nuts are frequently spotted:
- Dayton hamvention (I've never been, but I know many others have).
- PTTI (I try to go every year).
- FCS, ION GPS, NAWCC (I attend if they're close enough).
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Knox" actast@hotmail.com
To: "Time-Nuts" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
After following posts for a number of years I have learned the Time-Nuts community are not only a good source of knowledge but more important a great group of people. But even knowing that I am a bit overwhelmed after personally meeting several Time Nuts. Of coure this is common knowledge to may of you long time members. That said the chance to get to know Magnus, David, John, and locals Hank and Skip has left me thinking.....
In my humble opinion it would be great to put together an annual gathering of the Time and Freq Community, perhaps in conjunction with NIST's annual Seminar. If the time I have spent with Magnus and the other visiting Time-Nuts is any indication I think a Time-Nuts gathering would quickly develop into the must attend event for people serious about time but the fantastic people researching it. I see this evolving not only a social gathering, but also a place for professions and amateurs to could showcase ideas and products.
Best Wishes;
Thomas Knox
Then there is the NPL Time & Frequency Club at Teddington......oh sorry that
is the wrong side of the Atlantic :-))
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Van Baak" tvb@LeapSecond.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
Tom,
Agreed. We've given this some thought and I've polled people in the past.
The issue is usually location and budgets so nothing has ever happened.
Note that besides the NIST conference there are several other venues where
time nuts are frequently spotted:
- Dayton hamvention (I've never been, but I know many others have).
- PTTI (I try to go every year).
- FCS, ION GPS, NAWCC (I attend if they're close enough).
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Knox" actast@hotmail.com
To: "Time-Nuts" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
After following posts for a number of years I have learned the Time-Nuts
community are not only a good source of knowledge but more important a
great group of people. But even knowing that I am a bit overwhelmed after
personally meeting several Time Nuts. Of coure this is common knowledge
to may of you long time members. That said the chance to get to know
Magnus, David, John, and locals Hank and Skip has left me thinking.....
In my humble opinion it would be great to put together an annual
gathering of the Time and Freq Community, perhaps in conjunction with
NIST's annual Seminar. If the time I have spent with Magnus and the other
visiting Time-Nuts is any indication I think a Time-Nuts gathering would
quickly develop into the must attend event for people serious about time
but the fantastic people researching it. I see this evolving not only a
social gathering, but also a place for professions and amateurs to could
showcase ideas and products.
Best Wishes;
Thomas Knox
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 6 Jun, 2012, at 16:44 , Alan Melia wrote:
Then there is the NPL Time & Frequency Club at Teddington......oh sorry that is the wrong side of the Atlantic :-))
Alan
G3NYK
Is there still? Google comes up with this from 2004
http://www.npl.co.uk/content/conWebDoc/2054
but the link to the "club home page" at the bottom goes no where.
I would attend if it weren't defunct.
Dennis Ferguson
On 07/06/12 00:44, Alan Melia wrote:
Then there is the NPL Time & Frequency Club at Teddington......oh sorry
that is the wrong side of the Atlantic :-))
Depends on where you are. :)
The time-nuts now has a social web all from the happy hobbyist, advanced
hobbyists (and I've just learned that there is more of them than I
thought) into professionals. It is interesting that I see an openness
and friendliness which is really encouraging. We are in on this together
so to speak, we just have different limitations.
I'll happy to join further gettogethers with fellow time-nuts whenever I
cán. So I agree with Tom, Tom and Alan. I was actually hearing Tom
discuss this a little earlier this week, so I intentionally wanted to
get a trigger for a discussion, and was really happy to see Tom follow
along with that trigger.
I've met many people whose articles I've read over the years. They
really are trying to bring out the best folks, even if they left the
"bureau" for spin-offs, got pensioned or whatever. It's a good mix of
thery and practice. Got to see a demo of a 2.5 GHz phase noise
measurement demonstrating calibration and cross-correlation spectrum
analysis. The rig was built from scratch. It showed how difficult this
is, so well, you know what you pay for when you get a test-set.
Cheers,
Magnus
Hi Dennis, it is part of the Comms and Electronics Metrology Network now. I
guess the DoTI or whatever they call it now has slashed the budget. There
certainly have been meetings since 2004, and with Galileo proceeding there
should be more though possibly under "Tracking and Location". I have not
attended for a couple of years the last events I visited I got snarled in
the M25 "Car Park" for a couple of hours, which detracted from the pleasure
of the day a bit!. Several of the UK Group members attended.....nice free
buffet lunch!! Sign up for newsletters and you will get warning of meetings.
I think I have dropped off their mailing list now.
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Ferguson" dennis.c.ferguson@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
On 6 Jun, 2012, at 16:44 , Alan Melia wrote:
Then there is the NPL Time & Frequency Club at Teddington......oh sorry
that is the wrong side of the Atlantic :-))
Alan
G3NYK
Is there still? Google comes up with this from 2004
http://www.npl.co.uk/content/conWebDoc/2054
but the link to the "club home page" at the bottom goes no where.
I would attend if it weren't defunct.
Dennis Ferguson
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
When is the next one Alan? I've tried looking on the NPL site but nothing
showing. I've missed some recent ones due to some health issues.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Melia
Sent: 06 June 2012 23:45
To: Tom Van Baak; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
Then there is the NPL Time & Frequency Club at Teddington......oh sorry that
is the wrong side of the Atlantic :-))
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Van Baak" tvb@LeapSecond.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
Tom,
Agreed. We've given this some thought and I've polled people in the past.
The issue is usually location and budgets so nothing has ever happened.
Note that besides the NIST conference there are several other venues where
time nuts are frequently spotted:
- Dayton hamvention (I've never been, but I know many others have).
- PTTI (I try to go every year).
- FCS, ION GPS, NAWCC (I attend if they're close enough).
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Knox" actast@hotmail.com
To: "Time-Nuts" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
After following posts for a number of years I have learned the Time-Nuts
community are not only a good source of knowledge but more important a
great group of people. But even knowing that I am a bit overwhelmed after
personally meeting several Time Nuts. Of coure this is common knowledge
to may of you long time members. That said the chance to get to know
Magnus, David, John, and locals Hank and Skip has left me thinking.....
In my humble opinion it would be great to put together an annual
gathering of the Time and Freq Community, perhaps in conjunction with
NIST's annual Seminar. If the time I have spent with Magnus and the other
visiting Time-Nuts is any indication I think a Time-Nuts gathering would
quickly develop into the must attend event for people serious about time
but the fantastic people researching it. I see this evolving not only a
social gathering, but also a place for professions and amateurs to could
showcase ideas and products.
Best Wishes;
Thomas Knox
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Rob, me too my collegue has had a condition diagnosed which means he
didn't fancy the trip either so I didn'r attend. I think the last was a
joint meeting with the location an tracking group,which I was not too
interested in. In fact I may have dropped off the mail list now.
Hope you are back to good heath again?
Best Wishes
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Kimberley" robkimberley@btinternet.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
When is the next one Alan? I've tried looking on the NPL site but nothing
showing. I've missed some recent ones due to some health issues.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Melia
Sent: 06 June 2012 23:45
To: Tom Van Baak; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
Then there is the NPL Time & Frequency Club at Teddington......oh sorry
that
is the wrong side of the Atlantic :-))
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Van Baak" tvb@LeapSecond.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
Tom,
Agreed. We've given this some thought and I've polled people in the past.
The issue is usually location and budgets so nothing has ever happened.
Note that besides the NIST conference there are several other venues
where
time nuts are frequently spotted:
- Dayton hamvention (I've never been, but I know many others have).
- PTTI (I try to go every year).
- FCS, ION GPS, NAWCC (I attend if they're close enough).
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Knox" actast@hotmail.com
To: "Time-Nuts" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time-nut gettogether in Boulder
After following posts for a number of years I have learned the Time-Nuts
community are not only a good source of knowledge but more important a
great group of people. But even knowing that I am a bit overwhelmed
after
personally meeting several Time Nuts. Of coure this is common knowledge
to may of you long time members. That said the chance to get to know
Magnus, David, John, and locals Hank and Skip has left me thinking.....
In my humble opinion it would be great to put together an annual
gathering of the Time and Freq Community, perhaps in conjunction with
NIST's annual Seminar. If the time I have spent with Magnus and the
other
visiting Time-Nuts is any indication I think a Time-Nuts gathering
would
quickly develop into the must attend event for people serious about time
but the fantastic people researching it. I see this evolving not only a
social gathering, but also a place for professions and amateurs to could
showcase ideas and products.
Best Wishes;
Thomas Knox
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.