From: CAPTGMA@aol.com
Subject: TWL: RIB--happalon or PVC

recent Zodiac dealor trlls me to stay away from happalon because it coasts
too much and cant br easely repaired. Any one with experience on this??

This won't answer your question, but.....

We researched the whole hypalon/PVC/etc. question thoroughly when we were
deciding on a swim-step mounted dinghy for our trawler.  (The boat came
with a lovely Montgomery sailing dinghy on the aft cabin top, which we
kept, but we wanted something more stable and easier to launch for the
everyday dinghy.)  We talked to dealers.  We talked to owners.  We looked
at dinghies on all sorts of boats.  We talked to more owners.  We read
articles.  We looked at brochures.  We climbed in and out of people's
dinghies.  We talked to more dealers and read more brochures.

In the end we settled on a dinghy that avoided the hypalon vs. PVC vs.
leaks vs. delfates-over-time vs. hard-to-repair debate altogether.  We
bought a Livingston hardshell dinghy and have never regretted it for an
instant.  There are other harshell dinghies that are just as good or
better, it's just that the Pacific Northwest tends to be Livingston country.

Livingstons and their ilk are boring and ugly, no question.  You don't look
very yachty in a Livingston.  So if you really like the look of an RIB, try
a Bullfrog.  Foam filled tubes that never deflate, leak, or deteriorate,
and an aluminum V-bottom.  They come in a variety of sizes.  They're made
in Bellingham, Washington and I assume they have a website.

After all our research, we decided the limited life and potential hassles
of an inflatable are simply not worth it in the long run.  I walk around
our large marina and I see scores of sagging, half-inflated inflatables on
boats and on the dinghy racks.  I see people trying to fix leaks, or
dealing with deteriorating fabric.  I see people repairing (for the
umpteenth time) swim step attachments that are coming unglued from the
fabric.

I'm a bit puzzled by the super popularity of inflatables.  Their original
advantage was that you could deflate them for easy storage.  But they've
long since outgrown that premise, and now sport 100 hp motors, consol
steering, and can cost as much as a small trawler.  So since no one
deflates them anymore, why lose all that space to a set of tubes?  There
are hardshell dinghies that can go just as fast and have floatation so they
won't sink (and aren't as likely to go skittering off across the waves in a
windy emergency situation like an inflatable can.)  And a hardshell dinghy
has much more usable room inside than an inflatable (or rigid tube) boat
with the same planform.

And twenty years from now, that hardshell will be just as strong and
dependable as it is today.  Where will most, if not all of the inflatables
be in twenty years' time?

And... and here's the amazing part... a hardshell dinghy will generally
cost a fraction of what a comparable size inflatable or RIB will cost.  The
manufacturers have clearly not figured this out yet.  Normally, selling
something with a more or less infinite life is a great excuse to charge the
hell out of the customers.  But in dinghies we have the opposite situation.
The ones with the finite lives and built-in hassles cost tons more than the
trouble-free ones that will last forever.  God help us when the people at
Livingston, Sorenson, etc. realize their mistake.

So after adding all this stuff up and making up pro and con lists, we
looked at the data and said, Why would anyone in their right mind fork over
a zillion dollars for a finite-life inflatable when you can get a same-size
dinghy with more room in it for a hell of a lot less that will do everthing
the inflatable will do (except deflate) that will last more or less forever?

That was our take on the situation.  I know others will have equally valid
reasons for going the other way.

C. Marin Faure
GB36-403 "La Perouse"
Bellingham, WA

C. Marin Faure wrote:

Wait a minute....how about load capacity? Usually much more than a rigid.
Also, I love not having to worry about fenders. I park anywhere and do not
worry that I will damage any other boats. I bought my Avon RIB in 1984,
NEVER keep it under cover and it's on its third motor...hypalon, of course.

Bob

R C Smith Jr
M/V MARY KATHRYN
Hatteras 58 LRC
Annapolis

over

same-size

everthing

forever?

I agree with you, the Livingston is a dinghy.  But, there are some
advantages to an inflatable:

1. Stability - you can stand on the "rail" of an inflatable without fear of
   swamping or turning it over
2. Load carry capacity - load 'em to the gills with beer, groceries, etc. -
   hardly affects the waterline or stability.
3. Speed - inflatables, depending on the model, are generally rated for
   higher horsepower than comparable size hard dinks.  Many will argue about
   the need for speed in a dink, but when you're a full time live-aboard and
   your dink is your only means of transportation, and you're anchored a long
   way from shore/town/dive-site/etc., it's nice to have a fast dinghy.  We
   spent 5 months diving in Bonaire and without a fast inflatable capable of
   carrying full SCUBA gear for both of us we would not have been able to dive
   any of the sites on Klein Bonaire, arguably the best diving!
4. Soft sides - no damage to the mother ship if you're trying to board in a
   rough anchorage, etc.  Admitably, a good rub rail and/or fenders on a hard
   dink can solve most of this problem but the inflatable is still easier on
   the topsides.  If you leave your dinghy tied along side at night, the
   inflatable is much quieter - less bumps in the night.
5. Weight - comparably sized inflatables are generally, although not always
   lighter than hard dinks.  Can make a difference if you're hauling it up on
   davits every night like we had to do in Venezuela to keep the banditos from
   stealing the motor, etc.

So, yes, the Livingston is a great boat and in many, many instances is a
better choice than an inflatable.  I've thought seriously about buying one
myself and dealing with the issues raised above because I really like the
Livingston.  Just thought it would be a good idea to provide a little
balance to the other side of the equation!  No doubt this will start a new
line of discussion on hard vs. soft!

Ray B.
m/v MOJO
Bebe Design #112 Passagemaker 49-10 in steel
www.mvmojo.com