Empathy List Archives

RK

R Kent James

Tue, Aug 22, 2017 4:52 PM

On 8/22/2017 6:07 AM, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote:

I've also got atom on my try-out list.

If you are going to try out Electron-based editors, you should also look
at Visual Studio Code. This is open-source but supported by Microsoft.
In my classes I started with Atom, but we switched to VS Code
eventually. For straight editing (on Windows) I still prefer Notepad++,
but in a Node environment Visual Studio Code has all the hooks for
things like eslint, debugging, git, etc. that make it work well. (Though
I refuse to use a git GUI interface, and I force my student to use a
command line to wean them off of Windows-based graphical development
that does not translate well to Linux-based DevOps).

:rkent

On 8/22/2017 6:07 AM, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > I've also got atom on my try-out list. If you are going to try out Electron-based editors, you should also look at Visual Studio Code. This is open-source but supported by Microsoft. In my classes I started with Atom, but we switched to VS Code eventually. For straight editing (on Windows) I still prefer Notepad++, but in a Node environment Visual Studio Code has all the hooks for things like eslint, debugging, git, etc. that make it work well. (Though I refuse to use a git GUI interface, and I force my student to use a command line to wean them off of Windows-based graphical development that does not translate well to Linux-based DevOps). :rkent

RK

R Kent James

Tue, Aug 22, 2017 5:01 PM

On 8/22/2017 9:38 AM, R Kent James wrote:

The issue is DMARC, which will refuse to deliver email to domains that
have a DMARC policy in place if the From is an address on their
domain, but was not sent from one of their approved servers....
But I'll change it after this message. If anyone stops getting email
after this, the only option is for you to change providers to someone
who does not publish a DMARC policy.

One more change, starting with this email. Switching to "reply to
poster", so a simple reply will not go to the email list. Let's see if
that works out.

:rkent

On 8/22/2017 9:38 AM, R Kent James wrote: > > The issue is DMARC, which will refuse to deliver email to domains that > have a DMARC policy in place if the From is an address on their > domain, but was not sent from one of their approved servers.... > But I'll change it after this message. If anyone stops getting email > after this, the only option is for you to change providers to someone > who does not publish a DMARC policy. One more change, starting with this email. Switching to "reply to poster", so a simple reply will not go to the email list. Let's see if that works out. :rkent

RK

R Kent James

Tue, Aug 22, 2017 5:07 PM

That email has:

To: maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
From: R Kent James kent@caspia.com

but still Thunderbird "Reply" which claims "Reply to the sender of this
message" goes to maildev@lists.thunderbird.net. There does not seem to
be any way to convince Thunderbird to really reply to the person and not
the list.

Seems like a bug to me (dogfood, anyone?)

:rkent

On 8/22/2017 10:01 AM, R Kent James wrote:

On 8/22/2017 9:38 AM, R Kent James wrote:

The issue is DMARC, which will refuse to deliver email to domains
that have a DMARC policy in place if the From is an address on their
domain, but was not sent from one of their approved servers....
But I'll change it after this message. If anyone stops getting email
after this, the only option is for you to change providers to someone
who does not publish a DMARC policy.

One more change, starting with this email. Switching to "reply to
poster", so a simple reply will not go to the email list. Let's see if
that works out.

:rkent

Maildev mailing list
Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net

That email has: To: maildev@lists.thunderbird.net From: R Kent James <kent@caspia.com> but still Thunderbird "Reply" which claims "Reply to the sender of this message" goes to maildev@lists.thunderbird.net. There does not seem to be any way to convince Thunderbird to really reply to the person and not the list. Seems like a bug to me (dogfood, anyone?) :rkent On 8/22/2017 10:01 AM, R Kent James wrote: > > On 8/22/2017 9:38 AM, R Kent James wrote: >> >> The issue is DMARC, which will refuse to deliver email to domains >> that have a DMARC policy in place if the From is an address on their >> domain, but was not sent from one of their approved servers.... >> But I'll change it after this message. If anyone stops getting email >> after this, the only option is for you to change providers to someone >> who does not publish a DMARC policy. > > One more change, starting with this email. Switching to "reply to > poster", so a simple reply will not go to the email list. Let's see if > that works out. > > :rkent > > > _______________________________________________ > Maildev mailing list > Maildev@lists.thunderbird.net > http://lists.thunderbird.net/mailman/listinfo/maildev_lists.thunderbird.net >

JK

Jörg Knobloch

Tue, Aug 22, 2017 5:39 PM

Regarding your e-mail sent 18:38 (just compare the minutes and ignore the hour):

You seem to defend the previous setup. However, tb-planning isn't set up that way.

"We're all email pros here" but we don't seem to check accurately where replies are being sent to.

Yes, and I have worked intensively on bug related to replies to mailing lists, in case you didn't know, there is a religious war going on, see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486 and duplicates. So I explicitly clicked "Reply" and saw Andrei Hajdukewycz via Maildev <maildev@lists.thunderbird.net> and missed rest of it since the setup was extremely deceptive.

Regarding your e-mail sent 19:02 and 19:09:

Thanks for making changes, those e-mails came from |R Kent James <kent@caspia.com>| and "Reply" works, I don't see any bug. You're caught by the "reply to self functionality", so if you reply to that message it doesn't go to you but to the original recipient. E-mail pro, right? ;-)

Now all is good, so thanks again.

Jörg.

JC

Joshua Cranmer 🐧

Tue, Aug 22, 2017 7:15 PM

On 8/22/2017 12:39 PM, Jörg Knobloch wrote:

Yes, and I have worked intensively on bug related to replies to
mailing lists, in case you didn't know, there is a religious war going
on, see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486 and
duplicates. So I explicitly clicked "Reply" and saw Andrei
Hajdukewycz via Maildev maildev@lists.thunderbird.net and missed
rest of it since the setup was extremely deceptive.

That comes from the infamous Yahoo! DMARC debacle. Yahoo, a few years
ago, switched their DMARC policy such that any message coming from
@yahoo.com without their DKIM signature should be bounced. This caused
every large mailing list to suddenly start dropping people due to bounce
spam. The standard solution for fixing this was to erase the original
From emails to avoid triggering DMARC rejections, which I assume is now
the default in mailman.

FWIW, there is a lot of anger with respect to Yahoo for basically
ruining mailing list setups.

--
Joshua Cranmer
Thunderbird and DXR developer
Source code archæologist

On 8/22/2017 12:39 PM, Jörg Knobloch wrote: > Yes, and I have worked intensively on bug related to replies to > mailing lists, in case you didn't know, there is a religious war going > on, see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309486 and > duplicates. So I explicitly clicked "Reply" and saw *Andrei > Hajdukewycz* via Maildev <maildev@lists.thunderbird.net> and missed > rest of it since the setup was *extremely* deceptive. That comes from the infamous Yahoo! DMARC debacle. Yahoo, a few years ago, switched their DMARC policy such that any message coming from @yahoo.com without their DKIM signature should be bounced. This caused every large mailing list to suddenly start dropping people due to bounce spam. The standard solution for fixing this was to erase the original From emails to avoid triggering DMARC rejections, which I assume is now the default in mailman. FWIW, there is a *lot* of anger with respect to Yahoo for basically ruining mailing list setups. -- Joshua Cranmer Thunderbird and DXR developer Source code archæologist

EW

Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult

Wed, Aug 23, 2017 6:54 AM

On 22.08.2017 19:07, R Kent James wrote:

That email has:

To: maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
From: R Kent James kent@caspia.com

but still Thunderbird "Reply" which claims "Reply to the sender of this
message" goes to maildev@lists.thunderbird.net. There does not seem to
be any way to convince Thunderbird to really reply to the person and not
the list.

Works for me (w/ tbird 52.1.1):

"reply to list" (default) goes to maildev@lists.thunderbird.net
"reply" goes to kent@caspia.com
"reply to all" goes to both

--mtx

On 22.08.2017 19:07, R Kent James wrote: > That email has: > > To: maildev@lists.thunderbird.net > From: R Kent James <kent@caspia.com> > > but still Thunderbird "Reply" which claims "Reply to the sender of this > message" goes to maildev@lists.thunderbird.net. There does not seem to > be any way to convince Thunderbird to really reply to the person and not > the list. Works for me (w/ tbird 52.1.1): * "reply to list" (default) goes to maildev@lists.thunderbird.net * "reply" goes to kent@caspia.com * "reply to all" goes to both --mtx

maildev@lists.thunderbird.net

Infrastructure status for week ending August 20, 2017