Empathy List Archives

DH

David H Sorenson

Sat, Jun 14, 2008 8:39 PM

We have overheard/witnessed similar delays by the CG on Lake Superior. I
recall one incident last year we listened to on the VHF in which a large
commercial freighter with personel onboard trained in advanced first aide
issued a Mayday for a crewman who had all the symptoms of a heart attack.
The captain of the ship was the the guy on the radio calling for help so
this was not some Joe Sixpack making a panicked or frivolous call. The CG
asked endless questions over the VHF down to almost what color socks the
victim was wearing. The ship was only about twelve or so miles offshore.
Finally the CG was convinced the ship needed help. A boat was
dispatched. I think at least a half an hour was consumed with various and
sundry protocols and questions. Fortunately, the sailor survived the
"cornonary incident" after being transported ashore to an awaiting
ambulance.

When I called 911 twelve years ago and told the operator I thought my
father was having a heart attack, emergency equipment was rolling within
a few minutes. It appears to me that CG search and rescue units have
protocols for their radio watch that are rigid and inflexible. What do
you ex-coasties out there say?

David Sorenson
Duluth

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We have overheard/witnessed similar delays by the CG on Lake Superior. I recall one incident last year we listened to on the VHF in which a large commercial freighter with personel onboard trained in advanced first aide issued a Mayday for a crewman who had all the symptoms of a heart attack. The captain of the ship was the the guy on the radio calling for help so this was not some Joe Sixpack making a panicked or frivolous call. The CG asked endless questions over the VHF down to almost what color socks the victim was wearing. The ship was only about twelve or so miles offshore. Finally the CG was convinced the ship needed help. A boat was dispatched. I think at least a half an hour was consumed with various and sundry protocols and questions. Fortunately, the sailor survived the "cornonary incident" after being transported ashore to an awaiting ambulance. When I called 911 twelve years ago and told the operator I thought my father was having a heart attack, emergency equipment was rolling within a few minutes. It appears to me that CG search and rescue units have protocols for their radio watch that are rigid and inflexible. What do you ex-coasties out there say? David Sorenson Duluth ____________________________________________________________ Beauty Advice Just Got a Makeover Read reviews about the beauty products you have always wanted to try http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7Uzuwr7O2C8QoEAfhmKBJ61uOJCLvajkqf3hjklckfHheqg/

RR

Ron Rogers

Sun, Jun 15, 2008 12:34 AM

This is not as simple a case as it's made out to be. From the narrative,
the diver rose to the surface too quickly and either had the bends and/or
had hemmoraged his lungs (I play a doctor in my mind). If he had the bends,
it's a hard choice whether to transport the diver by helicopter and possibly
exacerbate his injuries or move him in a fast surface vehicle and get him to
a pressure chamber later or, perhaps too late.

In a similar situation in the Army, we only had a chopper so we flew the
man to the hospital "on the deck" with the blades' downwash throwing spray
behind us. The soldier was fine.

When I was the subject of CG assistance while waiting for Towboat US, the
radio operator started asking too many silly questions. I told him that both
the dogs and I were wearing lifejackets, that we were anchored, and that we
were getting knocked around by square waves. I then asked him to stop asking
silly questions. He asked if I had any illness or was showing any symptoms.
I told him that I had too many conditions to relate, but that "I wasn't
showing any symptoms YET."

A 40 boat came out at full speed without any further questions and made a
beeline for our coordinates. At their request, I confirmed our identity by
waving. They asked if I was a commercial trawler and when I said we were a
pleasure boat, they were disappointed. It appeared that every cute kid at
the Station had come out for a ride. They called to my dogs and were really
nice!

Among other things, the Services are made up of individuals from whom we
desire a uniform response; but, sometimes the interaction between
individuals conditions the response. The dispatch of a helo is probably a
Sector Operations Center determination reached on the basis of phone
communications up and down the chain of command and radio traffic to their
assets.There can be other emergencies within and without the Sector's
operations area that you cannot hear on VHF. These potentially conflicting
requirements are sorted out at Sector and above. We only hear the product of
this decision making.

Having said all that, I heard a heart attack emergency on the Upper
Chesapeake responded to immediately with both a helicopter and a nearby CG
Station. The husband was unconscious with a know cardiac history. The wife
was magnificent clearly and coolly calling-out their coordinates and
responding to a CG EMT on the VHF. The Cape May helo arrived quickly and the
husband was evacuated directly to a hospital. No unnecessary questions were
ever asked. Therefore, it is hard to understand the handling of this
emergency outside the complete context. Until all the facts are in, I'd give
the CG the benefit of the doubt.

Ron Rogers
Willard 40

This is not as simple a case as it's made out to be. *From the narrative,* the diver rose to the surface too quickly and either had the bends and/or had hemmoraged his lungs (I play a doctor in my mind). If he had the bends, it's a hard choice whether to transport the diver by helicopter and possibly exacerbate his injuries or move him in a fast surface vehicle and get him to a pressure chamber later or, perhaps too late. In a similar situation in the Army, we only had a chopper so we flew the man to the hospital "on the deck" with the blades' downwash throwing spray behind us. The soldier was fine. When I was the subject of CG assistance while waiting for Towboat US, the radio operator started asking too many silly questions. I told him that both the dogs and I were wearing lifejackets, that we were anchored, and that we were getting knocked around by square waves. I then asked him to stop asking silly questions. He asked if I had any illness or was showing any symptoms. I told him that I had too many conditions to relate, but that "I wasn't showing any symptoms YET." A 40 boat came out at full speed without any further questions and made a beeline for our coordinates. At their request, I confirmed our identity by waving. They asked if I was a commercial trawler and when I said we were a pleasure boat, they were disappointed. It appeared that every cute kid at the Station had come out for a ride. They called to my dogs and were really nice! Among other things, the Services are made up of individuals from whom we desire a uniform response; but, sometimes the interaction between individuals conditions the response. The dispatch of a helo is probably a Sector Operations Center determination reached on the basis of phone communications up and down the chain of command and radio traffic to their assets.There can be other emergencies within and without the Sector's operations area that you cannot hear on VHF. These potentially conflicting requirements are sorted out at Sector and above. We only hear the product of this decision making. Having said all that, I heard a heart attack emergency on the Upper Chesapeake responded to immediately with both a helicopter and a nearby CG Station. The husband was unconscious with a know cardiac history. The wife was magnificent clearly and coolly calling-out their coordinates and responding to a CG EMT on the VHF. The Cape May helo arrived quickly and the husband was evacuated directly to a hospital. No unnecessary questions were ever asked. Therefore, it is hard to understand the handling of this emergency outside the complete context. Until all the facts are in, I'd give the CG the benefit of the doubt. Ron Rogers Willard 40

PD

Phil de l'Etoile

Sun, Jun 15, 2008 1:23 AM

On a couple of occasions I left a float plan with a friend (a boater),
and described the boat and the people on board to him. The plan was
to cell phone my friend in an emergency, quickly tell him the issue,
and where we were, and then try to tend to the problem as best I
could, while he talks to the CG.

Having one of these emergency situations going on while trying to
communicate on an often unclear VHF with lots of noise and chaos going
on is not, in my mind, an easy thing to do. My land-based friend can
do much better on a traceable, clear, land line, then I can do on the
radio.

In the case of a "developing" critical problem, I would radio the CG.
Often one of the hardest determinations to make is if you in fact DO
have an emergency.

Phil de l'Etoile
West Sacramento, CA

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Ron Rogers rcrogers6@kennett.net wrote:

This is not as simple a case as it's made out to be. From the narrative,
the diver rose to the surface too quickly and either had the bends and/or
had hemmoraged his lungs (I play a doctor in my mind). If he had the bends,
it's a hard choice whether to transport the diver by helicopter and possibly
exacerbate his injuries or move him in a fast surface vehicle and get him to
a pressure chamber later or, perhaps too late.

On a couple of occasions I left a float plan with a friend (a boater), and described the boat and the people on board to him. The plan was to cell phone my friend in an emergency, quickly tell him the issue, and where we were, and then try to tend to the problem as best I could, while he talks to the CG. Having one of these emergency situations going on while trying to communicate on an often unclear VHF with lots of noise and chaos going on is not, in my mind, an easy thing to do. My land-based friend can do much better on a traceable, clear, land line, then I can do on the radio. In the case of a "developing" critical problem, I would radio the CG. Often one of the hardest determinations to make is if you in fact DO have an emergency. Phil de l'Etoile West Sacramento, CA On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Ron Rogers <rcrogers6@kennett.net> wrote: > This is not as simple a case as it's made out to be. *From the narrative,* > the diver rose to the surface too quickly and either had the bends and/or > had hemmoraged his lungs (I play a doctor in my mind). If he had the bends, > it's a hard choice whether to transport the diver by helicopter and possibly > exacerbate his injuries or move him in a fast surface vehicle and get him to > a pressure chamber later or, perhaps too late.

trawlers@lists.trawlering.com

Re: T&T: USCG too-late esponse