Empathy List Archives

JH

Jim Healy

Fri, Sep 20, 2013 5:07 PM

Bryan,

If you mean natively on the tablet OS, "no." Probably what you meant. But, if you can live with full display and control from the tablet w/o physically touching the tower PC/laptop where CE lives, there is a "yes" flavor of the answer. And you asked specifically about CE, but this works at the platform level, so is good for any application SW running on either Mac of Windows tower/laptop hardware.

To get to "yes," once you have the tower/PC SW set up and running the way you want it, then install a remote control agent on the tower/laptop and an app on the tablet that talks to the remote control agent, and away you go. This will require a wi-fi network. Can be ad hoc or infrastructure. I use infrastructure. Specific SW requirements as based on the remote control SW. Wyse PocketCloud offer a package that will do the job on either Mac or Windows, either Android or iOS. I have that working (Mac running Windows running CE to Android and Mac running Windows running CE to iOS). Parallels just announced a package to do it. I have that, but haven't installed it yet. I plan to play with it this fall. There are others, too.

The kool thing is, the tower/laptop stays in a safe, secure inside location, out of the cold, elements, bumps and knocks. So this is ideal for guys with PC towers aboard that they use only for nav SW. The tablet is, of course, completely portable. It takes whatever exposure to the elements that you choose to apply. Backup is easy, since it's only the PC/laptop platform that you have to worry about. Replacement is easy. Looks, acts and feels like native CE.

Not the "yes" you wanted, probably, but it works just fine and gets you what you want.

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
Currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436

Bryan, If you mean natively on the tablet OS, "no." Probably what you meant. But, if you can live with full display and control from the tablet w/o physically touching the tower PC/laptop where CE lives, there is a "yes" flavor of the answer. And you asked specifically about CE, but this works at the platform level, so is good for any application SW running on either Mac of Windows tower/laptop hardware. To get to "yes," once you have the tower/PC SW set up and running the way you want it, then install a remote control agent on the tower/laptop and an app on the tablet that talks to the remote control agent, and away you go. This will require a wi-fi network. Can be ad hoc or infrastructure. I use infrastructure. Specific SW requirements as based on the remote control SW. Wyse PocketCloud offer a package that will do the job on either Mac or Windows, either Android or iOS. I have that working (Mac running Windows running CE to Android and Mac running Windows running CE to iOS). Parallels just announced a package to do it. I have that, but haven't installed it yet. I plan to play with it this fall. There are others, too. The kool thing is, the tower/laptop stays in a safe, secure inside location, out of the cold, elements, bumps and knocks. So this is ideal for guys with PC towers aboard that they use only for nav SW. The tablet is, of course, completely portable. It takes whatever exposure to the elements that you choose to apply. Backup is easy, since it's only the PC/laptop platform that you have to worry about. Replacement is easy. Looks, acts and feels like native CE. Not the "yes" you wanted, probably, but it works just fine and gets you what you want. Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary Currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com Monk 36 Hull #132 MMSI #367042570 AGLCA #3767 MTOA #3436

ET

Eric Thoman

Fri, Sep 20, 2013 7:30 PM

Previously posted:

The kool thing is, the tower/laptop stays in a safe, secure inside location,
out of the cold, elements, bumps and knocks. So this is ideal for guys with
PC towers aboard that they use only for nav SW.

Reply:

We have been doing the "desk top for nav only" thing for years and this
summer we crashed 3 separate hard drives fail. The last time we had a crash
I said "never again" and put two hard drives in the case and cloned them.
After the first crash this summer, it took 5 minutes to be up and running
again. Three weeks later, another crash, same computer, and no clone. We
juggled computers onboard in order to get CE running again. A few weeks
later we had another crash on our "communications" desktop. That was it...I
decided that we needed to make some changes. All laptops? Really did not
want to. The advise was if we wanted to stick with desk tops go to solid
state hard drives. OK, I have now done that. Not as simple as it sounds to
keep data intact but very doable. The next piece of advice was to use a
UPS/ line conditioner in order to eliminate bad power issues. Like most
cruising boats, we switch from generator to generator to shore power to
battery power multiple times a day. When I was re-activating CE I asked
about this. The CE guy most definitely favored solid state drives in order
to eliminate moving parts. UPS? He said do not bother, the boat's
inverter/chargers do just fine. Line conditioners? Again, do not bother as
the desk top power supply is serving that function.

Other opinions?

We will see how it works next summer...

Eric Thoman
Abyssinia

Previously posted: The kool thing is, the tower/laptop stays in a safe, secure inside location, out of the cold, elements, bumps and knocks. So this is ideal for guys with PC towers aboard that they use only for nav SW. Reply: We have been doing the "desk top for nav only" thing for years and this summer we crashed 3 separate hard drives fail. The last time we had a crash I said "never again" and put two hard drives in the case and cloned them. After the first crash this summer, it took 5 minutes to be up and running again. Three weeks later, another crash, same computer, and no clone. We juggled computers onboard in order to get CE running again. A few weeks later we had another crash on our "communications" desktop. That was it...I decided that we needed to make some changes. All laptops? Really did not want to. The advise was if we wanted to stick with desk tops go to solid state hard drives. OK, I have now done that. Not as simple as it sounds to keep data intact but very doable. The next piece of advice was to use a UPS/ line conditioner in order to eliminate bad power issues. Like most cruising boats, we switch from generator to generator to shore power to battery power multiple times a day. When I was re-activating CE I asked about this. The CE guy most definitely favored solid state drives in order to eliminate moving parts. UPS? He said do not bother, the boat's inverter/chargers do just fine. Line conditioners? Again, do not bother as the desk top power supply is serving that function. Other opinions? We will see how it works next summer... Eric Thoman Abyssinia

R

rt

Fri, Sep 20, 2013 10:03 PM

While solid state disks (SSDs) have a lot of value, performance and no moving parts being the biggest, they have their own issues as well. Aside from being relatively expensive, the NAND technology used has a finite life (only so many writes per cell) and requires that the controller embedded in the drive use wear leveling algorithms to ensure that cells do not fail prematurely. Better drives (generally not the least expensive ones) do a better job at this.

I personally have had three fail but this goes back quite a ways & one only has to google around a bit to find many tales of failures.

Consumer grade drives are getting better as is the single level cell technology used in them. Better drives do a better job of wear leveling and my current Samsung SSD has been in heavy service for more than a year (home/work use, not boat) and I am pleased so far with both its performance and its reliability. Enterprise class drives are much better and have much higher costs and MTBF specs.

With any computer, the power should be conditioned and stable. Laptops have an advantage in that the electronics are generally powered from the internal battery but this is not too difficult or expensive to do for a desktop/deskside/cube system. Heck, I do it for my laptop at home too.

Personally, I keep a backup image of my primary boot and data disk but I do not leave it either attached to the computer unless I am backing up. I have had to resort to using this disk several times and it is a easy and fast fix to what would have been a large issue for me.

With USB3 and a faster external disk (7200 or 10000 RPM), backup/clone speeds are pretty decent and I clone mine weekly or before I travel at a minimum. Once complete, the backup drive is tucked in a drawer. It can be done with USB2 and/or slower disks, but the limited throughput will require more time.

FWIW

Randy Thompson
Soul Tender
KK39007

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2013, at 3:30 PM, "Eric Thoman" kimeric@gocarefully.com wrote:

Previously posted:

The kool thing is, the tower/laptop stays in a safe, secure inside location,
out of the cold, elements, bumps and knocks. So this is ideal for guys with
PC towers aboard that they use only for nav SW.

Reply:

We have been doing the "desk top for nav only" thing for years and this
summer we crashed 3 separate hard drives fail. The last time we had a crash
I said "never again" and put two hard drives in the case and cloned them.
After the first crash this summer, it took 5 minutes to be up and running
again. Three weeks later, another crash, same computer, and no clone. We
juggled computers onboard in order to get CE running again. A few weeks
later we had another crash on our "communications" desktop. That was it...I
decided that we needed to make some changes. All laptops? Really did not
want to. The advise was if we wanted to stick with desk tops go to solid
state hard drives. OK, I have now done that. Not as simple as it sounds to
keep data intact but very doable. The next piece of advice was to use a
UPS/ line conditioner in order to eliminate bad power issues. Like most
cruising boats, we switch from generator to generator to shore power to
battery power multiple times a day. When I was re-activating CE I asked
about this. The CE guy most definitely favored solid state drives in order
to eliminate moving parts. UPS? He said do not bother, the boat's
inverter/chargers do just fine. Line conditioners? Again, do not bother as
the desk top power supply is serving that function.

Other opinions?

We will see how it works next summer...

Eric Thoman
Abyssinia

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com

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Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World
Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

While solid state disks (SSDs) have a lot of value, performance and no moving parts being the biggest, they have their own issues as well. Aside from being relatively expensive, the NAND technology used has a finite life (only so many writes per cell) and requires that the controller embedded in the drive use wear leveling algorithms to ensure that cells do not fail prematurely. Better drives (generally not the least expensive ones) do a better job at this. I personally have had three fail but this goes back quite a ways & one only has to google around a bit to find many tales of failures. Consumer grade drives are getting better as is the single level cell technology used in them. Better drives do a better job of wear leveling and my current Samsung SSD has been in heavy service for more than a year (home/work use, not boat) and I am pleased so far with both its performance and its reliability. Enterprise class drives are much better and have much higher costs and MTBF specs. With any computer, the power should be conditioned and stable. Laptops have an advantage in that the electronics are generally powered from the internal battery but this is not too difficult or expensive to do for a desktop/deskside/cube system. Heck, I do it for my laptop at home too. Personally, I keep a backup image of my primary boot and data disk but I do not leave it either attached to the computer unless I am backing up. I have had to resort to using this disk several times and it is a easy and fast fix to what would have been a large issue for me. With USB3 and a faster external disk (7200 or 10000 RPM), backup/clone speeds are pretty decent and I clone mine weekly or before I travel at a minimum. Once complete, the backup drive is tucked in a drawer. It can be done with USB2 and/or slower disks, but the limited throughput will require more time. FWIW Randy Thompson Soul Tender KK39007 Sent from my iPhone On Sep 20, 2013, at 3:30 PM, "Eric Thoman" <kimeric@gocarefully.com> wrote: > Previously posted: > > The kool thing is, the tower/laptop stays in a safe, secure inside location, > out of the cold, elements, bumps and knocks. So this is ideal for guys with > PC towers aboard that they use only for nav SW. > > Reply: > > We have been doing the "desk top for nav only" thing for years and this > summer we crashed 3 separate hard drives fail. The last time we had a crash > I said "never again" and put two hard drives in the case and cloned them. > After the first crash this summer, it took 5 minutes to be up and running > again. Three weeks later, another crash, same computer, and no clone. We > juggled computers onboard in order to get CE running again. A few weeks > later we had another crash on our "communications" desktop. That was it...I > decided that we needed to make some changes. All laptops? Really did not > want to. The advise was if we wanted to stick with desk tops go to solid > state hard drives. OK, I have now done that. Not as simple as it sounds to > keep data intact but very doable. The next piece of advice was to use a > UPS/ line conditioner in order to eliminate bad power issues. Like most > cruising boats, we switch from generator to generator to shore power to > battery power multiple times a day. When I was re-activating CE I asked > about this. The CE guy most definitely favored solid state drives in order > to eliminate moving parts. UPS? He said do not bother, the boat's > inverter/chargers do just fine. Line conditioners? Again, do not bother as > the desk top power supply is serving that function. > > Other opinions? > > We will see how it works next summer... > > Eric Thoman > Abyssinia > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World > Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited. >

ET

Eric Thoman

Sat, Sep 21, 2013 5:21 PM

In case you think that cloning your hard drive is the answer to all hard
drive crash situations, I want to point out something. Canadian electronic
charts do not clone with the encryption intact. The Canadian Hydrographic
folks are pretty clever. Your cloned hard drive will have unregistered and
therefore unusable charts. Plus, it is not as simple as calling for new
Activation Codes because the computer will say that "the charts have already
been installed on this computer" and not give you the opportunity to enter
the codes. You have to jump through some software hoops (as known only by
technical support) and delete an encryption file so that your computer will
think it is a new install, and then the disks will load properly. Once
loaded you can call for Activation Codes. Bob is not your uncle quite yet.
Because the charts are on your hard drive already CE will not load them
automatically as new charts. You have to tell CE to load each one. You can
load them as a group but you have to check each chart box individually
(about 125 charts per disk) to tell CE to load them.

Add the complication you may not have cell coverage in BC or Alaska and you
can quickly see that cloning is not the perfect solution. But what is
better?

Someone on this list used to say "boating is easy once you have it all
figured out." When is that gonna' happen?

Eric Thoman
Abyssinia

In case you think that cloning your hard drive is the answer to all hard drive crash situations, I want to point out something. Canadian electronic charts do not clone with the encryption intact. The Canadian Hydrographic folks are pretty clever. Your cloned hard drive will have unregistered and therefore unusable charts. Plus, it is not as simple as calling for new Activation Codes because the computer will say that "the charts have already been installed on this computer" and not give you the opportunity to enter the codes. You have to jump through some software hoops (as known only by technical support) and delete an encryption file so that your computer will think it is a new install, and then the disks will load properly. Once loaded you can call for Activation Codes. Bob is not your uncle quite yet. Because the charts are on your hard drive already CE will not load them automatically as new charts. You have to tell CE to load each one. You can load them as a group but you have to check each chart box individually (about 125 charts per disk) to tell CE to load them. Add the complication you may not have cell coverage in BC or Alaska and you can quickly see that cloning is not the perfect solution. But what is better? Someone on this list used to say "boating is easy once you have it all figured out." When is that gonna' happen? Eric Thoman Abyssinia

JG

Jed Guertin

Sun, Sep 22, 2013 1:08 PM

Not to beat a dead horse to death, but paper charts as a backup come
to mind.

Fair winds

On Sep 21, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Eric Thoman wrote:

In case you think that cloning your hard drive is the answer to all
hard
drive crash situations, I want to point out something. Canadian
electronic
charts do not clone with the encryption intact. The Canadian
Hydrographic
folks are pretty clever. Your cloned hard drive will have
unregistered and
therefore unusable charts. Plus, it is not as simple as calling for
new
Activation Codes because the computer will say that "the charts have
already
been installed on this computer" and not give you the opportunity to
enter
the codes. You have to jump through some software hoops (as known
only by
technical support) and delete an encryption file so that your
computer will
think it is a new install, and then the disks will load properly.
Once
loaded you can call for Activation Codes. Bob is not your uncle
quite yet.
Because the charts are on your hard drive already CE will not load
them
automatically as new charts. You have to tell CE to load each one.
You can
load them as a group but you have to check each chart box individually
(about 125 charts per disk) to tell CE to load them.

Add the complication you may not have cell coverage in BC or Alaska
and you
can quickly see that cloning is not the perfect solution. But what is
better?

Someone on this list used to say "boating is easy once you have it all
figured out." When is that gonna' happen?

Eric Thoman
Abyssinia

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com

To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password,
change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com
Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World
Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

Not to beat a dead horse to death, but paper charts as a backup come to mind. Fair winds On Sep 21, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Eric Thoman wrote: > In case you think that cloning your hard drive is the answer to all > hard > drive crash situations, I want to point out something. Canadian > electronic > charts do not clone with the encryption intact. The Canadian > Hydrographic > folks are pretty clever. Your cloned hard drive will have > unregistered and > therefore unusable charts. Plus, it is not as simple as calling for > new > Activation Codes because the computer will say that "the charts have > already > been installed on this computer" and not give you the opportunity to > enter > the codes. You have to jump through some software hoops (as known > only by > technical support) and delete an encryption file so that your > computer will > think it is a new install, and then the disks will load properly. > Once > loaded you can call for Activation Codes. Bob is not your uncle > quite yet. > Because the charts are on your hard drive already CE will not load > them > automatically as new charts. You have to tell CE to load each one. > You can > load them as a group but you have to check each chart box individually > (about 125 charts per disk) to tell CE to load them. > > Add the complication you may not have cell coverage in BC or Alaska > and you > can quickly see that cloning is not the perfect solution. But what is > better? > > Someone on this list used to say "boating is easy once you have it all > figured out." When is that gonna' happen? > > Eric Thoman > Abyssinia > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, > change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World > Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited. >

R

rt

Sun, Sep 22, 2013 6:56 PM

Goes hand in hand with not having to rely on a single system.

'course, being a single screw trawler owner...

Calm seas,

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2013, at 6:08 AM, Jed Guertin jedg@myfairpoint.net wrote:

Not to beat a dead horse to death, but paper charts as a backup come to mind.

Fair winds

On Sep 21, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Eric Thoman wrote:

In case you think that cloning your hard drive is the answer to all hard
drive crash situations, I want to point out something. Canadian electronic
charts do not clone with the encryption intact. The Canadian Hydrographic
folks are pretty clever. Your cloned hard drive will have unregistered and
therefore unusable charts. Plus, it is not as simple as calling for new
Activation Codes because the computer will say that "the charts have already
been installed on this computer" and not give you the opportunity to enter
the codes. You have to jump through some software hoops (as known only by
technical support) and delete an encryption file so that your computer will
think it is a new install, and then the disks will load properly. Once
loaded you can call for Activation Codes. Bob is not your uncle quite yet.
Because the charts are on your hard drive already CE will not load them
automatically as new charts. You have to tell CE to load each one. You can
load them as a group but you have to check each chart box individually
(about 125 charts per disk) to tell CE to load them.

Add the complication you may not have cell coverage in BC or Alaska and you
can quickly see that cloning is not the perfect solution. But what is
better?

Someone on this list used to say "boating is easy once you have it all
figured out." When is that gonna' happen?

Eric Thoman
Abyssinia

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com

To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com
Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World
Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com

To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com
Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World
Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

Goes hand in hand with not having to rely on a single system. 'course, being a single screw trawler owner... Calm seas, Sent from my iPhone On Sep 22, 2013, at 6:08 AM, Jed Guertin <jedg@myfairpoint.net> wrote: > Not to beat a dead horse to death, but paper charts as a backup come to mind. > > Fair winds > > > On Sep 21, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Eric Thoman wrote: > >> In case you think that cloning your hard drive is the answer to all hard >> drive crash situations, I want to point out something. Canadian electronic >> charts do not clone with the encryption intact. The Canadian Hydrographic >> folks are pretty clever. Your cloned hard drive will have unregistered and >> therefore unusable charts. Plus, it is not as simple as calling for new >> Activation Codes because the computer will say that "the charts have already >> been installed on this computer" and not give you the opportunity to enter >> the codes. You have to jump through some software hoops (as known only by >> technical support) and delete an encryption file so that your computer will >> think it is a new install, and then the disks will load properly. Once >> loaded you can call for Activation Codes. Bob is not your uncle quite yet. >> Because the charts are on your hard drive already CE will not load them >> automatically as new charts. You have to tell CE to load each one. You can >> load them as a group but you have to check each chart box individually >> (about 125 charts per disk) to tell CE to load them. >> >> Add the complication you may not have cell coverage in BC or Alaska and you >> can quickly see that cloning is not the perfect solution. But what is >> better? >> >> Someone on this list used to say "boating is easy once you have it all >> figured out." When is that gonna' happen? >> >> Eric Thoman >> Abyssinia >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com >> >> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com >> Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World >> Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World > Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited. >

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Re: T&T: PC Tablet for Coastal Explorer