In true KK style, better looking than most, but too high (BCH); too high an A:B ratio - and too much windage. Twins are a waste - and a flying bridge has no place on an expedition yacht IMHO. No mention of stabilizing -where are the paravanes? Regards, John "Seahorse" ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Ok, I spoke to Larry Polster of Krogen Yachts about a few of the questions initially. I'm sure one of them can jump on and answer the questions if we want. 1) The hull construction is identical to the 58, 48, 44, and 39. 2) The boat uses the same hull design(canoe shaped). 3) The reasons given for the twins are that a single with a get home engine have: a) Less Draft(about a foot less) b) More speed in the event of a engine failure c) better stability in a following sea. d) just in case you want to know the boat is Triple skegged. 4) In answer to John of Seahorse's comment the boat has active stabilizers. 5) I believe they have already sold at least two sight unseen(I heard that a month or so ago) so it may be many more by now. 6) As of now I believe the flybridge is not a option. FYI, I think the boat looks much like the 48 whaleback but updated and much better looking. In fact one of the sales guys of Krogen jokingly refers to it as a "Uber Whaleback".

I wonder what the base price of the Krogenn 55 and the Dashew FPB64 are? I believe a Nordhavn 55 is usd $1.3M, but you can tack on another $250k - $500k to fit it out. What I really wonder is if Dashew will bring his boat to the market at an attractive price, considering how he plans to deliver it, complete. I assume he's trying to do the same thing Ruben did with the Island Pilot and drive cost down by standardizing and minimizing the variables. It will be very interesting to see if they can pull it off. I don't think Dashew is known for providing particularly "value priced alternatives"? It's interesting, FPB64 seems to have gained some beam compared to the FPB84? I didn't have time to look at the specs, but to a laymans eye it looks like it has more relative beam? I wonder how these boats compare to the long thin trawler Bruce Jones is building in Turkey? Bruce, care to comment? It's interesting that you now have some real alternatives for passage capable yachts. It's also interesting that Dashew has taken such a diverse path. I wonder how many couples will opt for the purpose built functionality of the FPB64 versus the luxury and accommodations of the K55 or N55? I sure think a couple could handle the FPB64 more easily than one of the monster 55's towering off the water. What I would REALLY like to see is a plot of accelerometer readings for several boats in the same sea state. Dashew claims to slice through the waves while big fat trawlers are reported to pound into them. How he engineers a boat to surf downswell is beyond me. I guess it's his sailboat knowledge and experience. Seems to me that sharp pointy bow would bury itself in a heartbeat resulting in a pitch pole or broach. Finally I wonder how many couples there are out their making passages? I'll have a better feel for the demographics as we head south in a few weeks. If 50% of the boats out there are couples only, how big a boat is really needed? Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA -----Original Message----- From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com [mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of John Ford Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 7:43 AM To: Passagemaking Under Power List Subject: Re: [PUP] New Krogen 55 Expedition Ok, I spoke to Larry Polster of Krogen Yachts about a few of the questions initially. I'm sure one of them can jump on and answer the questions if we want. 1) The hull construction is identical to the 58, 48, 44, and 39. 2) The boat uses the same hull design(canoe shaped). 3) The reasons given for the twins are that a single with a get home engine have: a) Less Draft(about a foot less) b) More speed in the event of a engine failure c) better stability in a following sea. d) just in case you want to know the boat is Triple skegged. 4) In answer to John of Seahorse's comment the boat has active stabilizers. 5) I believe they have already sold at least two sight unseen(I heard that a month or so ago) so it may be many more by now. 6) As of now I believe the flybridge is not a option. FYI, I think the boat looks much like the 48 whaleback but updated and much better looking. In fact one of the sales guys of Krogen jokingly refers to it as a "Uber Whaleback". _______________________________________________ http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power To unsubscribe send email to passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.

Most later Nordhavn 55's are coming out around $2M when equipped. That base price doesn't include a lot of basics, and I've heard the base just went up to something on the high side of $1.4. I think Dashew once mentioned the replacement value of his 84 was $4 to 6M. Hard to compete on price with Asian volume-manufactured boats, ala Nordhavn/Krogen/Selene unless you play the same game. While most N55 tradeoffs go toward living space and comfort (in moderate or better conditions), the Dashews boats are focused on crew comfort in heavy weather. Both are proven, blue-water capable boats, but if I had to ride out a storm or hurricane, or travel for weeks in heavy conditions, Steve's boat is where I'd want to be. But most of us don't travel under those conditions. Also, the FPB84 isn't a boat for novices. It's an amazing ship with everything thought out for non-fatiguing two-person passagemaking in weather, but you have to manually control things like its roll characteristics by pumping water from below up/down to tanks over the cabin, also fore and aft. That allows tuning the boat for maximum comfort in nearly any set of conditions. But if you don't know what you're doing, you could get in trouble. So to Scott's question, the motion characteristics of the Dashew boat are dynamically tunable. Steve's design is totally focused on maintaining optimum roll rates and pitch moments, which have be retuned as you change conditions or heading. But not a problem while crossing oceans if you're a sailor. Sailors are used to trimming and tuning with wind and conditions. Unfortunately, at 80+ feet long and 13 foot beam, with single level living spaces, it's got far less interior space than my N55. Unless the FPB64 is beamier (which would defeat a lot of the advantages), interior spaces are going to resemble a sailboat. But then, the 84 was billed as the "un-sailboat". But if you have cruising plans like the Dashews (leaving Seattle in September to wind up in Europe and then take the northern route back through Norway, Faeroe Islands, Iceland, Greenland, Labrador, etc as the ice melts), then you need a boat where the tradeoffs all go one way. Not too many Nordhavn, Krogen or Selene owners would be willing to take on that itinerary with full confidence. His real market, IMHO, is sailors who have done a circumnavigation or two (just to get their feet wet <grin>) and who now want to do the same in the comfort of a powerboat. Very specialized market. John Marshall N5520-Serendipity Sequim Bay, WA On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Scott Bulger wrote: > I wonder what the base price of the Krogenn 55 and the Dashew FPB64 > are? I > believe a Nordhavn 55 is usd $1.3M, but you can tack on another > $250k - > $500k to fit it out. > > What I really wonder is if Dashew will bring his boat to the market > at an > attractive price, considering how he plans to deliver it, complete. I > assume he's trying to do the same thing Ruben did with the Island > Pilot and > drive cost down by standardizing and minimizing the variables. It > will be > very interesting to see if they can pull it off. I don't think > Dashew is > known for providing particularly "value priced alternatives"? > > It's interesting, FPB64 seems to have gained some beam compared to the > FPB84? I didn't have time to look at the specs, but to a laymans > eye it > looks like it has more relative beam? > > I wonder how these boats compare to the long thin trawler Bruce > Jones is > building in Turkey? Bruce, care to comment? > > It's interesting that you now have some real alternatives for passage > capable yachts. It's also interesting that Dashew has taken such a > diverse > path. I wonder how many couples will opt for the purpose built > functionality of the FPB64 versus the luxury and accommodations of > the K55 > or N55? I sure think a couple could handle the FPB64 more easily > than one > of the monster 55's towering off the water. What I would REALLY > like to see > is a plot of accelerometer readings for several boats in the same > sea state. > Dashew claims to slice through the waves while big fat trawlers are > reported > to pound into them. How he engineers a boat to surf downswell is > beyond me. > I guess it's his sailboat knowledge and experience. Seems to me > that sharp > pointy bow would bury itself in a heartbeat resulting in a pitch > pole or > broach. Finally I wonder how many couples there are out their making > passages? I'll have a better feel for the demographics as we head > south in > a few weeks. If 50% of the boats out there are couples only, how > big a boat > is really needed? > > > Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com > [mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On > Behalf Of > John Ford > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 7:43 AM > To: Passagemaking Under Power List > Subject: Re: [PUP] New Krogen 55 Expedition > > Ok, I spoke to Larry Polster of Krogen Yachts about a few of the > questions initially. I'm sure one of them can jump on and answer the > questions if we want. > > 1) The hull construction is identical to the 58, 48, 44, and 39. > 2) The boat uses the same hull design(canoe shaped). > 3) The reasons given for the twins are that a single with a get home > engine have: > a) Less Draft(about a foot less) > b) More speed in the event of a engine failure > c) better stability in a following sea. > d) just in case you want to know the boat is Triple skegged. > 4) In answer to John of Seahorse's comment the boat has active > stabilizers. > 5) I believe they have already sold at least two sight unseen(I heard > that a month or so ago) so it may be many more by now. > 6) As of now I believe the flybridge is not a option. > > > FYI, I think the boat looks much like the 48 whaleback but updated > and much better looking. In fact one of the sales guys of Krogen > jokingly refers to it as a "Uber Whaleback". > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, > formerly known as Trawler World Productions. > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.

Agree with all John Marshall's points. Just wanted to point out that the unsailboat has both passive and active stabilizers in addition to ballast trim capability. Also, remember that the Dashew style is to voyage quickly from point to point and then enjoy the new location *at anchor.* They use their stabilizer fish at anchor.Few, if any marinas. Finally, if you view their videos underway in large, but not stormy seas, you can observe her bow penetrating the waves. Ron Rogers 1985 Willard 40FBS AIRBORNE