time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

View all threads

They're baaaack!

CF
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R
Tue, Oct 2, 2012 4:29 AM

Are LightSquared still trying to get some value from their contributions?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/10/lightsquared-still-wont-give-up-on-spectrum-near-gps-band/

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=a2a98f9f-beae-4642-9ba0-a1874805f024

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R    caf@omen.com  www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc      "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231  503-614-0430

Are LightSquared still trying to get some value from their contributions? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/10/lightsquared-still-wont-give-up-on-spectrum-near-gps-band/ http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=a2a98f9f-beae-4642-9ba0-a1874805f024 -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software" 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430
CP
Charles P. Steinmetz
Tue, Oct 2, 2012 7:14 AM

Are LightSquared still trying to get some value from their contributions?

Of course they are.  Lightsquared ("LS") bought low-valued spectrum
at fire-sale prices, speculating that with rule changes and waivers
they could use it for a terrestrial broadband network, in which case
its value would increase by a factor of 100, 1k, or 1M.  If there is
any chance whatsoever to still reap that windfall, LS will press it.

The spectrum LS bought is allocated to the Mobile Satellite Service
("MSS").  Until relatively recently, this spectrum could only be used
for satellite networks.  Because mobile satellite service has never
caught on due to the high cost of the space segment and some
technical limitations of delivering good broadband performance by
satellite, the value of MSS spectrum has been much lower than the
Commercial Mobile Radio Service spectrum now used for mobile
broadband services (pennies on the dollar, or less).

The FCC is convinced that the US will founder as a backwater and will
be unable to climb out of the recession if it doesn't have more
mobile broadband spectrum, and soon.  (I believe this is a faulty
notion at best, trending toward absurd, and have articulated my
reasons here a number of times, so I won't repeat them now.  Check
the archives if you are interested.)  So, the FCC is racing to make
more spectrum available for mobile broadband service.  It thought
that the relative wasteland of underutilized MSS spectrum would be
low-hanging fruit, so it indicated in its National Broadband Plan and
some later decisions and Orders that terrestrial use of the spectrum
should be considered.

Seeing the opportunity to buy cheap MSS spectrum (including buying
some MSS companies out of bankruptcy) and convert it to a much, much
more valuable use, thereby reaping a windfall, LS did just
that.  However, as we have seen, the technical problems surrounding
repurposing satellite spectrum have thrown a spanner in the works of
the initial plan.  As I have commented here before, how the FCC and
whoever did the LS due diligence all missed the obvious problems with
putting powerful terrestrial transmitters adjacent to receivers
listening to satellites is beyond me, particularly when the issue of
SDARS (satellite radio) ancillary terrestrial transmitters
interfering with mobile networks should have been fresh in everyone's minds.

To summarize -- LS bought cheap spectrum that nobody much wanted
because of the difficulty of providing MSS services.  The spectrum is
still worth about what LS paid for it, as MSS spectrum.  But LS
apparently feels entitled to receive not just the value of the
spectrum as MSS spectrum, but rather the value it would have if it
could be used for mobile broadband service.
  Put another way, they
want their speculative gamble covered.  By whom?  Well, that would be
us, the folks who are still in the middle of bailing out the
speculators of the last decade.  LS now wants to swap its spectrum
for government spectrum that would be useful for mobile broadband service.

Now, on the one hand, I think having available the "wholesale only"
service LS says it wants to provide would be a Good Thing.  On the
other hand, I do not think we, the people, should subsidize it.  LS
took a gamble, and lost.  That should be the end of it.  But there
any number of politicians who, like the FCC, are panicked that the US
is "behind" in the mobile broadband race and think more mobile
broadband will restart the economy (again, I say, Dream On).  So, LS
has allies that want to cover its bet for their own reasons.

Only time will tell how it works out.  If you want to have input into
the process, at this point lobbying your congressional delegation and
the appropriate House and Senate committee members appears to be your best bet.

Best regards,

Charles

>Are LightSquared still trying to get some value from their contributions? Of course they are. Lightsquared ("LS") bought low-valued spectrum at fire-sale prices, speculating that with rule changes and waivers they could use it for a terrestrial broadband network, in which case its value would increase by a factor of 100, 1k, or 1M. If there is any chance whatsoever to still reap that windfall, LS will press it. The spectrum LS bought is allocated to the Mobile Satellite Service ("MSS"). Until relatively recently, this spectrum could only be used for satellite networks. Because mobile satellite service has never caught on due to the high cost of the space segment and some technical limitations of delivering good broadband performance by satellite, the value of MSS spectrum has been much lower than the Commercial Mobile Radio Service spectrum now used for mobile broadband services (pennies on the dollar, or less). The FCC is convinced that the US will founder as a backwater and will be unable to climb out of the recession if it doesn't have more mobile broadband spectrum, and soon. (I believe this is a faulty notion at best, trending toward absurd, and have articulated my reasons here a number of times, so I won't repeat them now. Check the archives if you are interested.) So, the FCC is racing to make more spectrum available for mobile broadband service. It thought that the relative wasteland of underutilized MSS spectrum would be low-hanging fruit, so it indicated in its National Broadband Plan and some later decisions and Orders that terrestrial use of the spectrum should be considered. Seeing the opportunity to buy cheap MSS spectrum (including buying some MSS companies out of bankruptcy) and convert it to a much, much more valuable use, thereby reaping a windfall, LS did just that. However, as we have seen, the technical problems surrounding repurposing satellite spectrum have thrown a spanner in the works of the initial plan. As I have commented here before, how the FCC and whoever did the LS due diligence all missed the obvious problems with putting powerful terrestrial transmitters adjacent to receivers listening to satellites is beyond me, particularly when the issue of SDARS (satellite radio) ancillary terrestrial transmitters interfering with mobile networks should have been fresh in everyone's minds. To summarize -- LS bought cheap spectrum that nobody much wanted because of the difficulty of providing MSS services. The spectrum is still worth about what LS paid for it, *as MSS spectrum.* But LS apparently feels entitled to receive not just the value of the spectrum *as MSS spectrum,* but rather the value it would have *if it could be used for mobile broadband service.* Put another way, they want their speculative gamble covered. By whom? Well, that would be us, the folks who are still in the middle of bailing out the speculators of the last decade. LS now wants to swap its spectrum for government spectrum that would be useful for mobile broadband service. Now, on the one hand, I think having available the "wholesale only" service LS says it wants to provide would be a Good Thing. On the other hand, I do not think we, the people, should subsidize it. LS took a gamble, and lost. That should be the end of it. But there any number of politicians who, like the FCC, are panicked that the US is "behind" in the mobile broadband race and think more mobile broadband will restart the economy (again, I say, Dream On). So, LS has allies that want to cover its bet for their own reasons. Only time will tell how it works out. If you want to have input into the process, at this point lobbying your congressional delegation and the appropriate House and Senate committee members appears to be your best bet. Best regards, Charles
G
gary
Tue, Oct 2, 2012 7:33 AM

There is also a proposal to pay commercial TV stations to move together
as a cluster, then chop off part of the TV band for wireless. The
current market simply will never fill the allotted DTV spectrum.
[Cable/satellite/internet-streaming filled the void.] It is a bit
nauseating to pay the broadcasts for spectrum that they never paid for
in the first place.

While I don't favor paying the broadcasters, I like everything else
about this approach. Further, I'd get rid of VHF DTV all together. In
the transition period, we did just fine when they were all on UHF. Save
VHF for public service. I'd even grant the old VHF users an extra
site/channel or two to make up for lost range.

Currently the wireless companies in the US, at least the two major GSM
providers, are dumping the 2G service to recover that spectrum. It is
probably cheaper to migrate the 2G customers to 3G, then convert the old
spectrum to LTE, than to buy new spectrum for LTE.

As I have stated here before, there is already a satellite mobile
service with ground transmitters, namely XM and Sirius. That system
works today, and one of the bands is completely redundant after the
merger. Let Light Squared pay off Sirius XM if they need a functional
band. They could use the money.

There is also a proposal to pay commercial TV stations to move together as a cluster, then chop off part of the TV band for wireless. The current market simply will never fill the allotted DTV spectrum. [Cable/satellite/internet-streaming filled the void.] It is a bit nauseating to pay the broadcasts for spectrum that they never paid for in the first place. While I don't favor paying the broadcasters, I like everything else about this approach. Further, I'd get rid of VHF DTV all together. In the transition period, we did just fine when they were all on UHF. Save VHF for public service. I'd even grant the old VHF users an extra site/channel or two to make up for lost range. Currently the wireless companies in the US, at least the two major GSM providers, are dumping the 2G service to recover that spectrum. It is probably cheaper to migrate the 2G customers to 3G, then convert the old spectrum to LTE, than to buy new spectrum for LTE. As I have stated here before, there is already a satellite mobile service with ground transmitters, namely XM and Sirius. That system works today, and one of the bands is completely redundant after the merger. Let Light Squared pay off Sirius XM if they need a functional band. They could use the money.
DL
Don Latham
Tue, Oct 2, 2012 8:11 AM

And I will not pay telephone prices for wideband data service. Pfui.
Don

gary

There is also a proposal to pay commercial TV stations to move together
as a cluster, then chop off part of the TV band for wireless. The
current market simply will never fill the allotted DTV spectrum.
[Cable/satellite/internet-streaming filled the void.] It is a bit
nauseating to pay the broadcasts for spectrum that they never paid for
in the first place.

While I don't favor paying the broadcasters, I like everything else
about this approach. Further, I'd get rid of VHF DTV all together. In
the transition period, we did just fine when they were all on UHF. Save
VHF for public service. I'd even grant the old VHF users an extra
site/channel or two to make up for lost range.

Currently the wireless companies in the US, at least the two major GSM
providers, are dumping the 2G service to recover that spectrum. It is
probably cheaper to migrate the 2G customers to 3G, then convert the old
spectrum to LTE, than to buy new spectrum for LTE.

As I have stated here before, there is already a satellite mobile
service with ground transmitters, namely XM and Sirius. That system
works today, and one of the bands is completely redundant after the
merger. Let Light Squared pay off Sirius XM if they need a functional
band. They could use the money.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century.
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

And I will not pay telephone prices for wideband data service. Pfui. Don gary > There is also a proposal to pay commercial TV stations to move together > as a cluster, then chop off part of the TV band for wireless. The > current market simply will never fill the allotted DTV spectrum. > [Cable/satellite/internet-streaming filled the void.] It is a bit > nauseating to pay the broadcasts for spectrum that they never paid for > in the first place. > > While I don't favor paying the broadcasters, I like everything else > about this approach. Further, I'd get rid of VHF DTV all together. In > the transition period, we did just fine when they were all on UHF. Save > VHF for public service. I'd even grant the old VHF users an extra > site/channel or two to make up for lost range. > > Currently the wireless companies in the US, at least the two major GSM > providers, are dumping the 2G service to recover that spectrum. It is > probably cheaper to migrate the 2G customers to 3G, then convert the old > spectrum to LTE, than to buy new spectrum for LTE. > > As I have stated here before, there is already a satellite mobile > service with ground transmitters, namely XM and Sirius. That system > works today, and one of the bands is completely redundant after the > merger. Let Light Squared pay off Sirius XM if they need a functional > band. They could use the money. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com