Hi Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next thing I need is software. If I want: Required: 1) non- commercial 2) 1 Hz normalization 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) 4) low cost Much preferred: 5) a non-evil OS 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system 7) free 8) rational calibration 9) scope view. 10) reasonable graphics 11) active support by the author The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & 3 pop up on the list. I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be pretty slick. The ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase noise. I'm pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug into this same issue already. Bob

You have looked at: spectran and spectrum lab ? Don Bob Camp > Hi > > Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next thing I need > is software. If I want: > > Required: > > 1) non- commercial > 2) 1 Hz normalization > 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) > 4) low cost > > Much preferred: > > 5) a non-evil OS > 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system > 7) free > 8) rational calibration > 9) scope view. > 10) reasonable graphics > 11) active support by the author > > The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & 3 pop up on > the list. > > I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be pretty slick. The > ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase noise. I'm > pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug into this same > issue already. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

Linrad should fill the bill. Do a search for the SM5BSZ website At his index page, http://www.sm5bsz.com/update.htm there is some recent work on phase noise. Usable in Linux or windows. Not for the faint of heart, very capable, very experimental, very flexible. Grab your saddle and hang on..... If Spectrum Laboratory does not immediately satisfy the need, contact the author http://freenet-homepage.de/dl4yhf/spectra1.html Stan, W1LE Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next thing I need is software. If I want: > > Required: > > 1) non- commercial > 2) 1 Hz normalization > 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) > 4) low cost > > Much preferred: > > 5) a non-evil OS > 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system > 7) free > 8) rational calibration > 9) scope view. > 10) reasonable graphics > 11) active support by the author > > The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & 3 pop up on the list. > > I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be pretty slick. The ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase noise. I'm pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug into this same issue already. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >

Hi Both are very cool programs. Both are full of all sorts of neat features. As far as I can see, neither one has the features I'm after. More or less - I want it to run like a clunky HP audio analyzer rather than a very cool tool for ham radio. Bob On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Don Latham wrote: > You have looked at: > spectran and spectrum lab ? > Don > > Bob Camp >> Hi >> >> Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next thing I need >> is software. If I want: >> >> Required: >> >> 1) non- commercial >> 2) 1 Hz normalization >> 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) >> 4) low cost >> >> Much preferred: >> >> 5) a non-evil OS >> 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system >> 7) free >> 8) rational calibration >> 9) scope view. >> 10) reasonable graphics >> 11) active support by the author >> >> The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & 3 pop up on >> the list. >> >> I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be pretty slick. The >> ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase noise. I'm >> pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug into this same >> issue already. >> >> Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > -- > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi Linrad is one that I have looked at. It was in a SDR adventure, but I've seen it. Lots of very neat RF stuff packed in there. Still missing the part that I'm after. I guess I need a program written by an audio guy who's never heard of RF ... Bob On Feb 18, 2010, at 7:08 PM, Stan, W1LE wrote: > Linrad should fill the bill. > > Do a search for the SM5BSZ website > > At his index page, http://www.sm5bsz.com/update.htm > > there is some recent work on phase noise. > > Usable in Linux or windows. Not for the faint of heart, very capable, > very experimental, very flexible. Grab your saddle and hang on..... > > If Spectrum Laboratory does not immediately satisfy the need, contact the author > > http://freenet-homepage.de/dl4yhf/spectra1.html > > Stan, W1LE > > > > Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next thing I need is software. If I want: >> >> Required: >> >> 1) non- commercial 2) 1 Hz normalization >> 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) >> 4) low cost >> >> Much preferred: >> >> 5) a non-evil OS 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system >> 7) free >> 8) rational calibration 9) scope view. >> 10) reasonable graphics >> 11) active support by the author >> >> The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & 3 pop up on the list. >> I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be pretty slick. The ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase noise. I'm pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug into this same issue already. >> >> Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

For Linux (and I think some other *nixes) check out Baudline (http://www.baudline.com). It's free but not open source. It's a general purpose audio spectrum analyzer tool, not aimed at ham radio. John ---- Bob Camp said the following on 02/18/2010 06:18 PM: > Hi > > Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next thing I need is software. If I want: > > Required: > > 1) non- commercial > 2) 1 Hz normalization > 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) > 4) low cost > > Much preferred: > > 5) a non-evil OS > 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system > 7) free > 8) rational calibration > 9) scope view. > 10) reasonable graphics > 11) active support by the author > > The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & 3 pop up on the list. > > I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be pretty slick. The ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase noise. I'm pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug into this same issue already. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Baudline only uses 16 bit samples a significant limitation if one has a high end sound card. Bruce John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > For Linux (and I think some other *nixes) check out Baudline > (http://www.baudline.com). It's free but not open source. It's a > general purpose audio spectrum analyzer tool, not aimed at ham radio. > > John > ---- > > Bob Camp said the following on 02/18/2010 06:18 PM: >> Hi >> >> Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next thing I >> need is software. If I want: >> >> Required: >> >> 1) non- commercial 2) 1 Hz normalization >> 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) >> 4) low cost >> >> Much preferred: >> >> 5) a non-evil OS 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system >> 7) free >> 8) rational calibration 9) scope view. >> 10) reasonable graphics >> 11) active support by the author >> >> The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & 3 pop >> up on the list. >> I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be pretty >> slick. The ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for >> phase noise. I'm pretty sure that there are others on the list who >> have dug into this same issue already. >> >> Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Unfortunately there's no way to build a sound-card application that can measure phase noise in the general case without a lot of additional hardware. Baseband PN analysis with an FFT presupposes that you have some external means of downconverting the DUT signal to DC with a superior reference at the same frequency, tuned with a quadrature PLL. There must be a suitable high-pass filter and LNA to block any DC residuals and preamplify the remaining part of the noise sideband. Further, it's often the case that noise close to the carrier is strong enough to keep you from being able to use enough gain to see the broadband floor, so you actually need more than one high-pass filter ahead of the sound card in many cases. These switchable filters were mandatory with the old 13-bit signal analyzers like the 3561A, and may still be needed today if you want to look down to 1 Hz. If you restrict your offset range to (say) 100 Hz to 20 kHz and require a 24-bit sound card, you can probably get away without the switchable HPFs. It'd be helpful to know exactly what sorts of measurements you need to make, and on what devices. PN measurement is a *lot* of work, on both the software and hardware sides. Much of it goes into developing a suitable calibration process. Take a look at the 3048A manuals sometime, realizing that the 3048A hardware itself is not very complicated... -- john, KE5FX > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On > Behalf Of Bob Camp > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:18 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sound Card Spectrum Analyzer > > > Hi > > Both are very cool programs. Both are full of all sorts of neat > features. As far as I can see, neither one has the features I'm after. > > More or less - I want it to run like a clunky HP audio analyzer > rather than a very cool tool for ham radio. > > Bob > > On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Don Latham wrote: > > > You have looked at: > > spectran and spectrum lab ? > > Don > > > > Bob Camp > >> Hi > >> > >> Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next > thing I need > >> is software. If I want: > >> > >> Required: > >> > >> 1) non- commercial > >> 2) 1 Hz normalization > >> 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) > >> 4) low cost > >> > >> Much preferred: > >> > >> 5) a non-evil OS > >> 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system > >> 7) free > >> 8) rational calibration > >> 9) scope view. > >> 10) reasonable graphics > >> 11) active support by the author > >> > >> The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & > 3 pop up on > >> the list. > >> > >> I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be > pretty slick. The > >> ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase > noise. I'm > >> pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug > into this same > >> issue already. > >> > >> Bob > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > > Six Mile Systems LLP > > 17850 Six Mile Road > > POB 134 > > Huson, MT, 59846 > > VOX 406-626-4304 > > www.lightningforensics.com > > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Hello, A long time ago (1996-2000...), there was a shareware program called CoolEdit (96 then 2k in case you didn't guess) that was really powerful, written by David Johnston. Unfortunately, (it was may be a little too smart ;-} ), Adobe took it over and it become the Audition product, and of course make it a commercial product. If you're able to grab a copy of the old shareware, the trial version, even limited on the number of filters and/or transforms you can use together, should be worth a try. Best regards, Jean-Louis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" <lists@cq.nu> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sound Card Spectrum Analyzer > Hi > > Linrad is one that I have looked at. It was in a SDR adventure, but I've > seen it. Lots of very neat RF stuff packed in there. Still missing the > part that I'm after. > > I guess I need a program written by an audio guy who's never heard of RF > ... > > Bob > > On Feb 18, 2010, at 7:08 PM, Stan, W1LE wrote: > >> Linrad should fill the bill. >> >> Do a search for the SM5BSZ website >> >> At his index page, http://www.sm5bsz.com/update.htm >> >> there is some recent work on phase noise. >> >> Usable in Linux or windows. Not for the faint of heart, very capable, >> very experimental, very flexible. Grab your saddle and hang on..... >> >> If Spectrum Laboratory does not immediately satisfy the need, contact the >> author >> >> http://freenet-homepage.de/dl4yhf/spectra1.html >> >> Stan, W1LE >> >> >> >> Bob Camp wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next thing I >>> need is software. If I want: >>> >>> Required: >>> >>> 1) non- commercial 2) 1 Hz normalization >>> 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) >>> 4) low cost >>> >>> Much preferred: >>> >>> 5) a non-evil OS 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system >>> 7) free >>> 8) rational calibration 9) scope view. >>> 10) reasonable graphics >>> 11) active support by the author >>> >>> The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & 3 pop up >>> on the list. >>> I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be pretty slick. >>> The ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase noise. >>> I'm pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug into this >>> same issue already. >>> >>> Bob >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Hi Ok, A bit more info: 1) Quadrature PLL using an RPD-1 DBM and a home brew lock box. 2) Willingness to accept that I'm measuring a pair of oscillators 3) Plenty of sources at the appropriate frequencies 4) First took a shot at this in 1975 (I forget the Fluke app note number ...) been doing it ever since 5) Appropriate preamp between the RPD and sound card is a work in progress 6) Sound card is a 192 KHz / 24 bit / ~110 db snr class card 7) Sound card will get butchered for the application. 8) Should be able to hit -165 ish floor, -120 ish at 1 Hz Except for the 16 bit limitation, Baudline looks like it's got what I need. Bob On Feb 18, 2010, at 7:53 PM, John Miles wrote: > Unfortunately there's no way to build a sound-card application that can > measure phase noise in the general case without a lot of additional > hardware. Baseband PN analysis with an FFT presupposes that you have some > external means of downconverting the DUT signal to DC with a superior > reference at the same frequency, tuned with a quadrature PLL. There must be > a suitable high-pass filter and LNA to block any DC residuals and preamplify > the remaining part of the noise sideband. > > Further, it's often the case that noise close to the carrier is strong > enough to keep you from being able to use enough gain to see the broadband > floor, so you actually need more than one high-pass filter ahead of the > sound card in many cases. These switchable filters were mandatory with the > old 13-bit signal analyzers like the 3561A, and may still be needed today if > you want to look down to 1 Hz. If you restrict your offset range to (say) > 100 Hz to 20 kHz and require a 24-bit sound card, you can probably get away > without the switchable HPFs. > > It'd be helpful to know exactly what sorts of measurements you need to make, > and on what devices. PN measurement is a *lot* of work, on both the > software and hardware sides. Much of it goes into developing a suitable > calibration process. Take a look at the 3048A manuals sometime, realizing > that the 3048A hardware itself is not very complicated... > > -- john, KE5FX > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]On >> Behalf Of Bob Camp >> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:18 PM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Sound Card Spectrum Analyzer >> >> >> Hi >> >> Both are very cool programs. Both are full of all sorts of neat >> features. As far as I can see, neither one has the features I'm after. >> >> More or less - I want it to run like a clunky HP audio analyzer >> rather than a very cool tool for ham radio. >> >> Bob >> >> On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Don Latham wrote: >> >>> You have looked at: >>> spectran and spectrum lab ? >>> Don >>> >>> Bob Camp >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Assuming I have a decent sound card, and a computer, the next >> thing I need >>>> is software. If I want: >>>> >>>> Required: >>>> >>>> 1) non- commercial >>>> 2) 1 Hz normalization >>>> 3) good low frequency processing (decimation ahead of the fft) >>>> 4) low cost >>>> >>>> Much preferred: >>>> >>>> 5) a non-evil OS >>>> 6) Rational performance on a non-quad core system >>>> 7) free >>>> 8) rational calibration >>>> 9) scope view. >>>> 10) reasonable graphics >>>> 11) active support by the author >>>> >>>> The application is measuring phase noise. That what makes 2 & >> 3 pop up on >>>> the list. >>>> >>>> I've looked at a lot of programs and they all seem to be >> pretty slick. The >>>> ones I've looked at so far don't quite hit the mark for phase >> noise. I'm >>>> pretty sure that there are others on the list who have dug >> into this same >>>> issue already. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL >>> Six Mile Systems LLP >>> 17850 Six Mile Road >>> POB 134 >>> Huson, MT, 59846 >>> VOX 406-626-4304 >>> www.lightningforensics.com >>> www.sixmilesystems.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >