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Navman 3200 Fuel System

MS
Michael Slater
Thu, Mar 9, 2006 5:06 PM

I have been looking at this system. It has some great advantages over
Floscan, not least of which is price! That aside it handles twin engine
installations and combines fuel flow from both to give mpg. It also
calculates fuel remaining in the tanks and distance at current mpg to go
before empty. The installation also has some advantages, being simpler in
both wiring and the display head. The display head is a simple LCD with a
whole range of menus. Are there any listees with experience of this set up
who could provide comments on reliability and accuracy? Thanks

Michael Slater

Sally Lillian

Trader 54

Falmouth UK

I have been looking at this system. It has some great advantages over Floscan, not least of which is price! That aside it handles twin engine installations and combines fuel flow from both to give mpg. It also calculates fuel remaining in the tanks and distance at current mpg to go before empty. The installation also has some advantages, being simpler in both wiring and the display head. The display head is a simple LCD with a whole range of menus. Are there any listees with experience of this set up who could provide comments on reliability and accuracy? Thanks Michael Slater Sally Lillian Trader 54 Falmouth UK
D
David&Joan
Fri, Mar 10, 2006 3:23 AM

As of a month or so ago, they had withdrawn their diesel engine system from
the market.

David

As of a month or so ago, they had withdrawn their diesel engine system from the market. David
DC
Dave Cooper
Fri, Mar 10, 2006 11:17 AM

David wrote:
As of a month or so ago, they had withdrawn their diesel engine system from
the market.>

News to us. It is on their website as of today and one is on our boat as of
a few weeks ago.

If they did withdraw it do you know why?

Dave & Nancy
Swan Song
Tortola, BVI

David wrote: As of a month or so ago, they had withdrawn their diesel engine system from the market.> News to us. It is on their website as of today and one is on our boat as of a few weeks ago. If they did withdraw it do you know why? Dave & Nancy Swan Song Tortola, BVI
D
David&Joan
Sat, Mar 11, 2006 2:06 AM

Dave:

I have long since erased their reply or I would include it, but I became
concerned about the fuel transducer specs taken from Navman's website:

  Flow Rates Max 400l/h and Min of 25l/h

25 l/h is about 5.5 gph which equates to about 100 horsepower. In a diesel
you need two transducers: one for the feed to the injector and another for
the return. The difference is your fuel consumption. I emailed Navman to ask
them if their system would work with less than 100 horsepower engines and
they emailed back that the diesel system has been withdrawn from the market.

Email Navman yourself to find out directly.

David

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cooper" captdave@surfbvi.com
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:17 AM
Subject: Re: T&T: Navman 3200 Fuel System

David wrote:
As of a month or so ago, they had withdrawn their diesel engine system
from
the market.>

News to us. It is on their website as of today and one is on our boat as
of
a few weeks ago.

If they did withdraw it do you know why?

Dave & Nancy
Swan Song
Tortola, BVI


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Dave: I have long since erased their reply or I would include it, but I became concerned about the fuel transducer specs taken from Navman's website: Flow Rates Max 400l/h and Min of 25l/h 25 l/h is about 5.5 gph which equates to about 100 horsepower. In a diesel you need two transducers: one for the feed to the injector and another for the return. The difference is your fuel consumption. I emailed Navman to ask them if their system would work with less than 100 horsepower engines and they emailed back that the diesel system has been withdrawn from the market. Email Navman yourself to find out directly. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cooper" <captdave@surfbvi.com> To: <trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:17 AM Subject: Re: T&T: Navman 3200 Fuel System > David wrote: > As of a month or so ago, they had withdrawn their diesel engine system > from > the market.> > > News to us. It is on their website as of today and one is on our boat as > of > a few weeks ago. > > If they did withdraw it do you know why? > > > Dave & Nancy > Swan Song > Tortola, BVI > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering > > To unsubscribe send email to > trawlers-and-trawlering-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World > Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.
AJ
Arild Jensen
Sat, Mar 11, 2006 2:30 AM

-----Original Message-----
From:David
I became concerned about the fuel transducer specs taken from Navman's
website:

  Flow Rates Max 400l/h and Min of 25l/h

25 l/h is about 5.5 gph which equates to about 100 horsepower. In a
diesel you need two transducers: one for the feed to the injector and
another for the return. The difference is your fuel consumption. I
emailed Navman to ask them if their system would work with less than 100
horsepower engines and they emailed back that the diesel system has been
withdrawn from the market.

REPLY
The problem is transducer accuracy. Most transducers will have a fixed
amount of slippage not to mention inertia.  That tiny  amount of error
becomes a bigger percentage as the total flow is reduced. In addition to
that  turbine or paddle wheel style transducers have a certain amount of
internal friction.  The only way to overcome that is to spend a lot of
money on extremely low friction shafts impellers etc.  That drives up
the cost.
So a low cost transducer is more likely to be inaccurate. A company I
worked for delved into designing such systems and we also built
calibration test meters for Ford Aerospace production lines. At low
speeds you can end up with a fuel gain instead of a net consumption if
the transducers are not matched and calibrated.

Now that we have electronic controlled injection it is much easier to
count injection pulses for  a total count of fuel amount used. The
assumption being older style engines needing the more expensive analog
metering will gradually disappear.

Regards
Arild

-----Original Message----- From:David I became concerned about the fuel transducer specs taken from Navman's website: Flow Rates Max 400l/h and Min of 25l/h 25 l/h is about 5.5 gph which equates to about 100 horsepower. In a diesel you need two transducers: one for the feed to the injector and another for the return. The difference is your fuel consumption. I emailed Navman to ask them if their system would work with less than 100 horsepower engines and they emailed back that the diesel system has been withdrawn from the market. REPLY The problem is transducer accuracy. Most transducers will have a fixed amount of slippage not to mention inertia. That tiny amount of error becomes a bigger percentage as the total flow is reduced. In addition to that turbine or paddle wheel style transducers have a certain amount of internal friction. The only way to overcome that is to spend a lot of money on extremely low friction shafts impellers etc. That drives up the cost. So a low cost transducer is more likely to be inaccurate. A company I worked for delved into designing such systems and we also built calibration test meters for Ford Aerospace production lines. At low speeds you can end up with a fuel gain instead of a net consumption if the transducers are not matched and calibrated. Now that we have electronic controlled injection it is much easier to count injection pulses for a total count of fuel amount used. The assumption being older style engines needing the more expensive analog metering will gradually disappear. Regards Arild
RB
Roger Bingham
Sat, Mar 11, 2006 11:07 AM
<SNIP>

. . . . . . .but I became concerned about the fuel transducer specs taken

from Navman's website:

  Flow Rates Max 400l/h and Min of 25l/h

25 l/h is about 5.5 gph which equates to about 100 horsepower.

REPLY

I contacted Navman last month in connection with the 3200 Fuel instrument
though on a different matter. They sent me two documents 1) FAQs and 2)3200
Information. This is material which is not on their website or brochure.

They emphasised that the 25 l/hr is measured at the fuel return pipe. This
is NOT fuel consumption. I then contacted Yanmar to ask if their 100hp
engine is within this range. No answer.

I have just emailed Navman Europe about the withdrawal of the 3200. I'll let
you know.

Email me off list if you would like copies of the two documents.

Regards

Roger Bingham
France

<SNIP> > . . . . . . .but I became concerned about the fuel transducer specs taken from Navman's website: > Flow Rates Max 400l/h and Min of 25l/h >25 l/h is about 5.5 gph which equates to about 100 horsepower. REPLY I contacted Navman last month in connection with the 3200 Fuel instrument though on a different matter. They sent me two documents 1) FAQs and 2)3200 Information. This is material which is not on their website or brochure. They emphasised that the 25 l/hr is measured at the fuel return pipe. This is NOT fuel consumption. I then contacted Yanmar to ask if their 100hp engine is within this range. No answer. I have just emailed Navman Europe about the withdrawal of the 3200. I'll let you know. Email me off list if you would like copies of the two documents. Regards Roger Bingham France