Purple gallinule
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by those
more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be more
than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I can be
contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
Personally I would not be in favour of catching the bird - it does not appear badly injured (it appears to be feeding well, can move its wing more or less normally, and can certainly fly short distances). Even if that were not the case I think that in all but exceptional circumstances it is better to let nature take its course however sad that may seem (note that it is normal for most young birds to die in their first year). That said I'm probably just a cold hearted cynic (ok, the " probably" is misleading).
But, if someone does plan to do something they should make certain that they are acting in accordance with state and federal laws, which both require permits for captures of (most) wild birds. There is a Good Samaritan clause for certain cases involving injuries, but it is perhaps arguable that this case fits the bill.
Chris
Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
@ssts
On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:47, Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com [nosbird] nosbird@yahoogroups.com wrote:
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by those more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be more than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I can be contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
.,._
Posted by: Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com
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Exactly. Well said Chris.
Mark Szantyr
On Oct 1, 2015, at 2:11 PM, elphick@sbcglobal.net [nosbird] nosbird@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Personally I would not be in favour of catching the bird - it does not appear badly injured (it appears to be feeding well, can move its wing more or less normally, and can certainly fly short distances). Even if that were not the case I think that in all but exceptional circumstances it is better to let nature take its course however sad that may seem (note that it is normal for most young birds to die in their first year). That said I'm probably just a cold hearted cynic (ok, the " probably" is misleading).
But, if someone does plan to do something they should make certain that they are acting in accordance with state and federal laws, which both require permits for captures of (most) wild birds. There is a Good Samaritan clause for certain cases involving injuries, but it is perhaps arguable that this case fits the bill.
Chris
Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
@ssts
On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:47, Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com [nosbird] nosbird@yahoogroups.com wrote:
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by those more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be more than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I can be contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
.,._
Posted by: elphick@sbcglobal.net
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Agreed. Thank you Chris.
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
Original Message
From: Mark Szantyr via CTBirds
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 2:16 PM
To: nosbird@yahoogroups.com; elphick@sbcglobal.net
Reply To: Mark Szantyr
Cc: Tricia Reid; ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] [NOSbird] Purple gallinule
Exactly. Well said Chris.
Mark Szantyr
On Oct 1, 2015, at 2:11 PM, elphick@sbcglobal.net [nosbird] nosbird@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Personally I would not be in favour of catching the bird - it does not appear badly injured (it appears to be feeding well, can move its wing more or less normally, and can certainly fly short distances). Even if that were not the case I think that in all but exceptional circumstances it is better to let nature take its course however sad that may seem (note that it is normal for most young birds to die in their first year). That said I'm probably just a cold hearted cynic (ok, the " probably" is misleading).
But, if someone does plan to do something they should make certain that they are acting in accordance with state and federal laws, which both require permits for captures of (most) wild birds. There is a Good Samaritan clause for certain cases involving injuries, but it is perhaps arguable that this case fits the bill.
Chris
Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
@ssts
On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:47, Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com [nosbird] nosbird@yahoogroups.com wrote:
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by those more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be more than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I can be contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
.,._
Posted by: elphick@sbcglobal.net
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I also agree with Chris's statement. The bird may not be 100% well, but we
might have to let nature take its course and not interfere. I hope the
bird will be doing well.
Aidan Kiley
Fairfield
On Oct 1, 2015 2:14 PM, "Chris Elphick via CTBirds" <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org> wrote:
Personally I would not be in favour of catching the bird - it does not
appear badly injured (it appears to be feeding well, can move its wing more
or less normally, and can certainly fly short distances). Even if that
were not the case I think that in all but exceptional circumstances it is
better to let nature take its course however sad that may seem (note that
it is normal for most young birds to die in their first year). That said
I'm probably just a cold hearted cynic (ok, the " probably" is misleading).
But, if someone does plan to do something they should make certain that
they are acting in accordance with state and federal laws, which both
require permits for captures of (most) wild birds. There is a Good
Samaritan clause for certain cases involving injuries, but it is perhaps
arguable that this case fits the bill.
Chris
Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
@ssts
On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:47, Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com [nosbird] <
nosbird@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by
those more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be
more than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I can
be contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
.,._
Posted by: Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group •
Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)
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I respectfully disagree. In a perfect world, I think nature taking its course would be the right thing. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where bird populations are dramatically declining due to our poor stewardship -- habitat loss, global warming, etc. So I think that if a bird is truly injured (and perhaps this bird is not), we should always help it out if we can.
Lisa White
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 1, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Aidan Kiley via CTBirds ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org wrote:
I also agree with Chris's statement. The bird may not be 100% well, but we
might have to let nature take its course and not interfere. I hope the
bird will be doing well.
Aidan Kiley
Fairfield
On Oct 1, 2015 2:14 PM, "Chris Elphick via CTBirds" <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org> wrote:
Personally I would not be in favour of catching the bird - it does not
appear badly injured (it appears to be feeding well, can move its wing more
or less normally, and can certainly fly short distances). Even if that
were not the case I think that in all but exceptional circumstances it is
better to let nature take its course however sad that may seem (note that
it is normal for most young birds to die in their first year). That said
I'm probably just a cold hearted cynic (ok, the " probably" is misleading).
But, if someone does plan to do something they should make certain that
they are acting in accordance with state and federal laws, which both
require permits for captures of (most) wild birds. There is a Good
Samaritan clause for certain cases involving injuries, but it is perhaps
arguable that this case fits the bill.
Chris
Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
@ssts
On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:47, Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com [nosbird] <
nosbird@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by
those more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be
more than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I can
be contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
.,._
Posted by: Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com
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I agree that this bird should be left to live or die naturally. Humans
can't "fix" everything, even things caused by humans.
Just my opinion.
On Thursday, October 1, 2015, Lisa White via CTBirds <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org> wrote:
I respectfully disagree. In a perfect world, I think nature taking its
course would be the right thing. But we don't live in a perfect world. We
live in a world where bird populations are dramatically declining due to
our poor stewardship -- habitat loss, global warming, etc. So I think that
if a bird is truly injured (and perhaps this bird is not), we should always
help it out if we can.
Lisa White
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 1, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Aidan Kiley via CTBirds <
I also agree with Chris's statement. The bird may not be 100% well, but
we
might have to let nature take its course and not interfere. I hope the
bird will be doing well.
Aidan Kiley
Fairfield
On Oct 1, 2015 2:14 PM, "Chris Elphick via CTBirds" <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org javascript:;> wrote:
Personally I would not be in favour of catching the bird - it does not
appear badly injured (it appears to be feeding well, can move its wing
more
or less normally, and can certainly fly short distances). Even if that
were not the case I think that in all but exceptional circumstances it
is
better to let nature take its course however sad that may seem (note
that
it is normal for most young birds to die in their first year). That said
I'm probably just a cold hearted cynic (ok, the " probably" is
misleading).
But, if someone does plan to do something they should make certain that
they are acting in accordance with state and federal laws, which both
require permits for captures of (most) wild birds. There is a Good
Samaritan clause for certain cases involving injuries, but it is perhaps
arguable that this case fits the bill.
Chris
Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
@ssts
On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:47, Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com
javascript:; [nosbird] <
nosbird@yahoogroups.com javascript:;> wrote:
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by
those more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be
more than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I
can
be contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com javascript:;.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
.,._
Posted by: Tricia Reid <reidtri@gmail.com javascript:;>
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,.,_
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This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association
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Christopher Lovell
ctlovell@gmail.com
Since we have wildlife rehabbers, and the bird seems injured beyond its ability to migrate, given the opportunity for safe capture, how is this not an obvious case for rehabbing?
On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Christopher Lovell via CTBirds ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org wrote:
I agree that this bird should be left to live or die naturally. Humans
can't "fix" everything, even things caused by humans.
Just my opinion.
On Thursday, October 1, 2015, Lisa White via CTBirds <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org> wrote:
I respectfully disagree. In a perfect world, I think nature taking its
course would be the right thing. But we don't live in a perfect world. We
live in a world where bird populations are dramatically declining due to
our poor stewardship -- habitat loss, global warming, etc. So I think that
if a bird is truly injured (and perhaps this bird is not), we should always
help it out if we can.
Lisa White
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 1, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Aidan Kiley via CTBirds <
I also agree with Chris's statement. The bird may not be 100% well, but
we
might have to let nature take its course and not interfere. I hope the
bird will be doing well.
Aidan Kiley
Fairfield
On Oct 1, 2015 2:14 PM, "Chris Elphick via CTBirds" <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org javascript:;> wrote:
Personally I would not be in favour of catching the bird - it does not
appear badly injured (it appears to be feeding well, can move its wing
more
or less normally, and can certainly fly short distances). Even if that
were not the case I think that in all but exceptional circumstances it
is
better to let nature take its course however sad that may seem (note
that
it is normal for most young birds to die in their first year). That said
I'm probably just a cold hearted cynic (ok, the " probably" is
misleading).
But, if someone does plan to do something they should make certain that
they are acting in accordance with state and federal laws, which both
require permits for captures of (most) wild birds. There is a Good
Samaritan clause for certain cases involving injuries, but it is perhaps
arguable that this case fits the bill.
Chris
Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
@ssts
On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:47, Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com
javascript:; [nosbird] <
nosbird@yahoogroups.com javascript:;> wrote:
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by
those more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be
more than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I
can
be contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com javascript:;.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
.,._
Posted by: Tricia Reid <reidtri@gmail.com javascript:;>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group •
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,.,_
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This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association
(COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
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Christopher Lovell
ctlovell@gmail.com
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I agree that this bird should be left alone. My reasoning behind this is simple.. The bird ended up incredibly off course with no major weather events (that I'm aware of) to throw it this far North. In doing so, the bird was injured. If this bird is too injured to find it's way back south, this (in my opinion) is natures way of removing the individual from the gene pool and essentially in the long run, protecting the species. Natural selection at work. No need to stress the bird out more by capturing it and then booking it a flight to Florida.
Stefan Martin
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Arthur Shippee via CTBirds ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org wrote:
Since we have wildlife rehabbers, and the bird seems injured beyond its ability to migrate, given the opportunity for safe capture, how is this not an obvious case for rehabbing?
On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Christopher Lovell via CTBirds ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org wrote:
I agree that this bird should be left to live or die naturally. Humans
can't "fix" everything, even things caused by humans.
Just my opinion.
On Thursday, October 1, 2015, Lisa White via CTBirds <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org> wrote:
I respectfully disagree. In a perfect world, I think nature taking its
course would be the right thing. But we don't live in a perfect world. We
live in a world where bird populations are dramatically declining due to
our poor stewardship -- habitat loss, global warming, etc. So I think that
if a bird is truly injured (and perhaps this bird is not), we should always
help it out if we can.
Lisa White
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 1, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Aidan Kiley via CTBirds <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org javascript:;> wrote:
I also agree with Chris's statement. The bird may not be 100% well, but
we
might have to let nature take its course and not interfere. I hope the
bird will be doing well.
Aidan Kiley
Fairfield
On Oct 1, 2015 2:14 PM, "Chris Elphick via CTBirds" <
ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org javascript:;> wrote:
Personally I would not be in favour of catching the bird - it does not
appear badly injured (it appears to be feeding well, can move its wing
more
or less normally, and can certainly fly short distances). Even if that
were not the case I think that in all but exceptional circumstances it
is
better to let nature take its course however sad that may seem (note
that
it is normal for most young birds to die in their first year). That said
I'm probably just a cold hearted cynic (ok, the " probably" is
misleading).
But, if someone does plan to do something they should make certain that
they are acting in accordance with state and federal laws, which both
require permits for captures of (most) wild birds. There is a Good
Samaritan clause for certain cases involving injuries, but it is perhaps
arguable that this case fits the bill.
Chris
Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
@ssts
On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:47, Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com
javascript:; [nosbird] <
nosbird@yahoogroups.com javascript:;> wrote:
As the person who made the initial sighting, if a decision is made by
those more experienced than I to attempt to capture the bird, I would be
more than willing to put on my wellies and tromp through the swamp. I
can
be contacted off list at reidtri@gmail.com javascript:;.
Tricia Reid, Mansfield Center
.,._
Posted by: Tricia Reid <reidtri@gmail.com javascript:;>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group •
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,.,_
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This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association
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--
Christopher Lovell
ctlovell@gmail.com
This list is provided by the Connecticut Ornithological Association (COA) for the discussion of birds and birding in Connecticut.
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Hi Lisa,
I completely agree that there is much to do in order to address the many harms we've inflicted on wildlife. I've spent my entire career trying to do that. As I indicated in my original email, there are certainly some cases where capture might be appropriate. If it were a whooping crane or a black robin, I might feel very differently (though the legal issues there would be an order of magnitude more complex!).
But, this is a species with a large geographic range, a global population that is likely in the 100,000s, not known to be declining rangewide (though there is weak evidence that hints at a possible decline in the US - but it's very weak evidence), and for which habitat loss is unlikely to be a major issue. For all these reasons it is ranked as "Least Concern" in systematic assessments of the status of the world's bird populations. It is also an individual that is far outside its normal range and so unlikely to contribute to the population's ability to thrive, and that under normal circumstances would have had a high chance of dying anyway (because most young birds do ... in fact in the species' I study even adults have a about 40-50% chance of dying every year ... not because of anything that humans do, but because that is typical in most birds).
I do totally understand your concerns, and think that they are critically important things to worry about. I just don't see any way that capturing this bird will address any of them. The solutions to most bird declines center around protecting habitat, consuming less, driving less, and so on. There are sometimes very good reasons for rehabilitating injured birds, but conservation is rarely one of them.
I hope this helps explain my thinking. And if you continue to disagree, that's just fine too :).
Best wishes,
Chris
Chris Elphick @ssts
Storrs, CT
elphick@sbcglobal.net
From: Lisa White madalynwhite@aol.com
To: Aidan Kiley eezambo@gmail.com
Cc: elphick@sbcglobal.net; Tricia Reid reidtri@gmail.com; ctbirds@lists.ctbirding.org
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [CT Birds] [NOSbird] Purple gallinule
I respectfully disagree. In a perfect world, I think nature taking its course would be the right thing. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where bird populations are dramatically declining due to our poor stewardship -- habitat loss, global warming, etc. So I think that if a bird is truly injured (and perhaps this bird is not), we should always help it out if we can.
Lisa White