Empathy List Archives

P

poledriver@msn.com

Mon, Jan 14, 2002 2:04 AM

Electronically controlled diesel engines are here to stay. The diesel engine
run by a digital brain has a great advantage over it's predecessor. It is
timed to fire at exactly at the right moment, whether it's turning 500 rpm
or 2500 rpm, hence better fuel burn, less soot (especially at the dock) and
more economical. Electronic engines can also be diagnosed by the factory via
satellite.

Some recent posts have energized the usual scare tactics that produce
visions of you and your boat adrift for days or perilously close to the
rocks without power. Well bullshit. There is not one of you out there that
can start their diesel without a good power source, electronic or not. All
of my automobiles have electronically controlled engines and they start and
run better than anything before engine "brains". I have never had to have
the diagnostic technicians to my house after disconnecting the battery
("power source") either.

Like anything else, create a list and carry spare parts.

Rex C Ott
M/V Zeus
Preston WA

Electronically controlled diesel engines are here to stay. The diesel engine run by a digital brain has a great advantage over it's predecessor. It is timed to fire at exactly at the right moment, whether it's turning 500 rpm or 2500 rpm, hence better fuel burn, less soot (especially at the dock) and more economical. Electronic engines can also be diagnosed by the factory via satellite. Some recent posts have energized the usual scare tactics that produce visions of you and your boat adrift for days or perilously close to the rocks without power. Well bullshit. There is not one of you out there that can start their diesel without a good power source, electronic or not. All of my automobiles have electronically controlled engines and they start and run better than anything before engine "brains". I have never had to have the diagnostic technicians to my house after disconnecting the battery ("power source") either. Like anything else, create a list and carry spare parts. Rex C Ott M/V Zeus Preston WA

R

rbryett@mail.com

Mon, Jan 14, 2002 1:27 PM

Some recent posts have energized the usual scare tactics that produce

visions of you and your boat adrift for days or perilously close to the
rocks without power. Well bullshit. There is not one of you out there that
can start their diesel without a good power source, electronic or not.<<<<

As the author of one of the posts here dismissed as "scare tactics" and
"bullshit", I'd like to respond. It is simply not true that electric power
is necessary to start a diesel engine. Leaving aside relatively small, hand
startable engines like the Sabb, there are also purely mechanical starters
like those made by Startwell (http://www.startwell.com) available for
engines far larger than those likely to be used in our boats. We may chose
not to use the alternatives, but the convenience of electric starting is no
justification for making an engine that can otherwise run without any
electrics completely dependent on them.

The boat I'm cruising on at the moment has a hand started Sabb installed. In
other words we do regularly what the post I quoted above claims is
impossible.

Like anything else, create a list and carry spare parts.<<<<

Good advice. But what spare parts? A complete spare engine management
computer? If so, what tools will be required to install it? A couple of
spanners, or the diagnostic computer they use at the garage when my car is
in for a service?

Regards, Robert Bryett.
Sydney, Australia.

>>>>Some recent posts have energized the usual scare tactics that produce visions of you and your boat adrift for days or perilously close to the rocks without power. Well bullshit. There is not one of you out there that can start their diesel without a good power source, electronic or not.<<<< As the author of one of the posts here dismissed as "scare tactics" and "bullshit", I'd like to respond. It is simply not true that electric power is necessary to start a diesel engine. Leaving aside relatively small, hand startable engines like the Sabb, there are also purely mechanical starters like those made by Startwell (http://www.startwell.com) available for engines far larger than those likely to be used in our boats. We may chose not to use the alternatives, but the convenience of electric starting is no justification for making an engine that can otherwise run without any electrics completely dependent on them. The boat I'm cruising on at the moment has a hand started Sabb installed. In other words we do regularly what the post I quoted above claims is impossible. >>>>Like anything else, create a list and carry spare parts.<<<< Good advice. But what spare parts? A complete spare engine management computer? If so, what tools will be required to install it? A couple of spanners, or the diagnostic computer they use at the garage when my car is in for a service? Regards, Robert Bryett. Sydney, Australia.

S

scaramouche@tvo.org

Mon, Jan 14, 2002 4:43 PM

rbryett@mail.com writes:

The boat I'm cruising on at the moment has a hand started Sabb
installed. In
other words we do regularly what the post I quoted above claims is
impossible.

As I have stated elsewhere, I used to own a motorsailor yawl with a
SABB and now have a sloop with a Farymann. Both engines are
hand-startable and can run without any electricity whatsoever. I make
it a point of practising this handstarting several times a season -
especially when I have novices on board.... :-)

rbryett@mail.com writes: >The boat I'm cruising on at the moment has a hand started Sabb >installed. In >other words we do regularly what the post I quoted above claims is >impossible. As I have stated elsewhere, I used to own a motorsailor yawl with a SABB and now have a sloop with a Farymann. Both engines are hand-startable and can run without any electricity whatsoever. I make it a point of practising this handstarting several times a season - especially when I have novices on board.... :-)

C

capnrich@cnw.com

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 7:24 AM

There is not one of you out there that

can start their diesel without a good power source, electronic or not.

True.

But the point is that we now don't need a good power source for it to keep
running but we will with an electronic diesel. We go from no power source to
one which is 'mission critical'.

I wonder what John Gamble's comments are on this topic.
Richard

> There is not one of you out there that can start their diesel without a good power source, electronic or not. True. But the point is that we now don't need a good power source for it to keep running but we will with an electronic diesel. We go from no power source to one which is 'mission critical'. I wonder what John Gamble's comments are on this topic. Richard

S

scaramouche@tvo.org

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 4:16 PM

capnrich@cnw.com writes:

There is not one of you out there that

can start their diesel without a good power source, electronic or
not.

True.

Not true.

Unless you classify human power as a "good power source". (Well, if
you get between Mohammed Ali and his gloves, you might be right).
<grin>

Ciao - George

capnrich@cnw.com writes: >> There is not one of you out there that >can start their diesel without a good power source, electronic or >not. > >True. Not true. Unless you classify human power as a "good power source". (Well, if you get between Mohammed Ali and his gloves, you might be right). <grin> Ciao - George

R

rossflem@serv.net

Tue, Jan 15, 2002 7:28 PM

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 00:27:12 +1100, "Robert Bryett" rbryett@mail.com
wrote:

As the author of one of the posts here dismissed as "scare tactics" and
"bullshit", I'd like to respond. It is simply not true that electric power
is necessary to start a diesel engine. Leaving aside relatively small, hand
startable engines like the Sabb, there are also purely mechanical starters
like those made by Startwell (http://www.startwell.com) available for

    Starting with compressed air is very common, especially on

larger boats. Usually compressed air is stored for engine starting
but there are also one or more compressors. Sometimes boats even have
air compressors that can be started by some manual means. There are
also hydraulic systems that store energy which can be used as starters
and even hand pumped if necessary.
I have had hand started a small 3 cylinder lifeboat engine.
It required a lot of cranking and delicate touch on the compression
release.

Ross Fleming rossflem@serv.net
S/V Renown Gulfstar 39
Seattle, Washington

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 00:27:12 +1100, "Robert Bryett" <rbryett@mail.com> wrote: >As the author of one of the posts here dismissed as "scare tactics" and >"bullshit", I'd like to respond. It is simply not true that electric power >is necessary to start a diesel engine. Leaving aside relatively small, hand >startable engines like the Sabb, there are also purely mechanical starters >like those made by Startwell (http://www.startwell.com) available for Starting with compressed air is very common, especially on larger boats. Usually compressed air is stored for engine starting but there are also one or more compressors. Sometimes boats even have air compressors that can be started by some manual means. There are also hydraulic systems that store energy which can be used as starters and even hand pumped if necessary. I have had hand started a small 3 cylinder lifeboat engine. It required a lot of cranking and delicate touch on the compression release. ___________________________________________________ Ross Fleming rossflem@serv.net S/V Renown Gulfstar 39 Seattle, Washington

trawlers@lists.trawlering.com

TWL: RE Electronics dependent diesels