Island Gypsy 36'
You have to realize that the "good one" review is more like an
advertisement--a review, not a survey. The "bad one" is about par for Pascoe.
I read and re-read Pascoe's stuff all of the time. He makes excellent points,
and everyone who buys a boat should read all of his writings. It is no secret
that he does not like oriental boats--and anyway you cut it, an Island Gypsy
is an oriental boat.
There are very few builders who do not use any wood in the deck core--and most
of them use foam--in a deck. That there is no wood in the deck is a bit of a
surprise, if true--but is in a more modern boat than the 1984. Pure
fiberglass decks have to be quite thick to be rigid--thick decks add up to
weight.
Consider that a 1984 boat WILL need the fuel tanks replaced at some point
soon. This is an expensive and destructive process. It is very difficult to
guage the tanks--and usually the steel tanks are not easily accessable. It is
typical to find them exposed to the engine room vents. If the tanks are
replaced, they should be properly bedded, and supported, plus the tops sloped,
and protected.
For me, any oriental boat with teak decks is a reason to walk away. They
almost guarantee that there will be problems at some point--and they are
problems which are not easily repaired. Even if the teak decks have been
removed, there still may be structural problems with the deck core. I see
only one 1984 listed on Yacht World--and it has teak decks (althought it looks
nice in the photos, only a personal inspection will tell). Also this boat has
three staterooms in a 36 footer! Lots of sleeping in that size boat!
Look for any signs of water leakage below. Take a very knowlegable friend with
you when you look at the boat. Don't fall in love with it. If you must have
this boat, find the toughest surveyor you can find--not one recommended by the
broker--and also have a separate engine survey. Boats are easy to buy, and
tough to sell!
Good luck, and let us know what the boat looks like in person--and what your
very knowlegable friend thinks of the boat....
Bob Austin
On Aug 9, 2006, at 8:13 PM, Bob Austin wrote:
Consider that a 1984 boat WILL need the fuel tanks replaced at some
point
soon...
A 1984 boat is just too old to buy!
UNLESS there there is some UNUSUAL situation, like the owner
was totally anal and a multi-zillionaire who kept the boat in his
bathtub with
a full time crew of 16, and the owner just died.
Otherwise, don't go there.
It is perfectly reasonable to assume that you can buy a boat new
and keep it perfect forever. There are plenty of boats from the 80's,
70's, 60's and even into the wooden boat era that are in GREAT
condition.
There are very few such boats that ever come on the market. It does
happen, but you need to discover such a situation, and not assume
that ANY boat listed meets that situation.
An older boat that is not in PERFECT condition will very, very
quickly cost you far, far more than the purchase price.
Buy the best boat you can afford, not the biggest.
David Smyth
david_smyth_ogst@mac.com
(805) 501-1406 cell
(818) 393-0275 office
(818) 353-0275 home office
There is so much in this message to respond to I just couldn't find a good place to snip it...
So, from the top...
An 84 boat is too old to buy????? WOW
Some are, some aren't. We are not all wealthy boaters. Some not even middle class. Heck, some of us are downright poor... Yes, there are things wrong with every boat and the older you get the more chances that something will need repairs sooner than later. As Marin says though, new boats often have probs too.
My advice....do your homework....walk the docks, read, read, read, talk to people, read some more. There are MANY good boats out there that are 1984 and older. This old girl I bought is a very proud 1973 model. She has more miles under her keel than most boats and needs tlc, but she is ready to go to sea again at a moments notice. Her previous owner (10 years) was just scrapping by money wise so I know the systems haven't had the best of care.
A boat will only cost you what you can afford to throw at it. I do all my maintenance and am capable of most small repairs so she hasn't cost me anything but a few small parts yet.
"Buy the best boat you can afford"...
Here is the one I would reword as "Buy the best boat for your needs". Hell, if I bought the best boat I could afford it would be about 20 feet long. As a full time livaboard, I needed BIG. I wanted one that would ALWAYS be ready to go out though so no hanger queen for me. As I started looking, there were hundreds that would have worked. Several that would have worked well. What did I settle for? The biggest one I could afford. I haven't regretted it for a second. Well, OK for a second...not crazy about the color. Do I have a loan on my boat? yup....do I have to watch my pennies very closely...yup, yup...would I do it again. ABSOLUTELY!
Single best advice I ever received from this list (maybe anywhere) was:
Don't wait, do it now. You won't regret doing it before you think you are 100% ready.
View from the cheap seats,
Joel Wilkins
S. Pasadena, FL
m/s Miss Magoo
1973 Columbia 45, #98
David Smyth david_smyth_ogst@mac.com wrote:
On Aug 9, 2006, at 8:13 PM, Bob Austin wrote:
Consider that a 1984 boat WILL need the fuel tanks replaced at some
point
soon...
A 1984 boat is just too old to buy!
UNLESS there there is some UNUSUAL situation, like the owner
was totally anal and a multi-zillionaire who kept the boat in his
bathtub with
a full time crew of 16, and the owner just died.
Otherwise, don't go there.
It is perfectly reasonable to assume that you can buy a boat new
and keep it perfect forever. There are plenty of boats from the 80's,
70's, 60's and even into the wooden boat era that are in GREAT
condition.
There are very few such boats that ever come on the market. It does
happen, but you need to discover such a situation, and not assume
that ANY boat listed meets that situation.
An older boat that is not in PERFECT condition will very, very
quickly cost you far, far more than the purchase price.
Buy the best boat you can afford, not the biggest.
David Smyth
david_smyth_ogst@mac.com
(805) 501-1406 cell
(818) 393-0275 office
(818) 353-0275 home office
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Consider that a 1984 boat WILL need the fuel tanks replaced at some
point
soon...
A 1984 boat is just too old to buy!
An older boat that is not in PERFECT condition will very, very
quickly cost you far, far more than the purchase price.
Actually, a good friend went to considerable trouble to have everyone
he knew who had ever owned a wooden boat call me and try to talk me
out of my foolishness. Most of those people spent a good part of the
call reminiscing about their old boat and how they wished they had
never sold it.
So I didn't realize that a 22 year old boat was too old to buy, and I
didn't know that good old boats rarely come on the market.
In my ignorance I went searching for an old wooden boat and found one
within months, close by. It was launched in 1927, but it just didn't
seem too old. It was in fine condition, but it wasn't perfect. It
appeared to have its original fuel tanks, but who knows? It had a lot
of other bits and pieces that seemed original also, but I was aware
that most of it had been replaced over the years, sometimes more than
once. (I know she's on her fourth engine.)
I think the point I'd like to make is that a good boat can last
forever if it has careful maintenance and doesn't meet with disaster.
Heck, from what I've seen I'd say that even a fairly lousy boat can
last a very long time if somebody looks after it.
But then, I've never owned a new boat, nor even a fiberglass one, so
I probably have it all wrong.
Terry
Tamarack
Yes Joel, I have the same problem, how to snip your msg and still keep the essence of what you said.
I was very disappointed when I read Dave's post. Dave obviously has a few more scheckles to play with than I do. But I did buy the best boat I could afford. It is a 1975 34' steel hulled (make is irrelavent) twin engined cruiser. With a hole in the bottom! Ya, you read that right, there is a 6"x3" hole in the bottom. And the interior has already been gutted by a previous owner, all the nav gear is missing. There is even some dry rot in the wood. What did I pay for her? $1500.00 and it cost me $900.00 to have her trucked to where I am. So, am I out a lot of money, not really. I can do a lot of work myself for $40K.
Now, the good parts. The rest of the hull is solid. The engines were properly prepared for long term storage. The bilge is totally dry. The interior is gone so I can refit/layout the interior as I see fit. I can install all new modern stuff inside.
Am I proud of her, damn right. Am I able to do the work on her? Most of it. I will leave the welding to the pros, but I can weld so I can repair broken stringers inside. I have made many things for my house with my woodworking skills. I have spent the last 25 yrs restoring old cars, so really what is the difference other than the steel is thicker and its wood instead of plastic inside.
I know she will be a long term project, but she will also be in the water next spring and sailable. If I want to sleep on her, I guess its the old air mattress and sleeping bag. Will I leave the comforts of the inner islands of Georgian Bay, not a chance cause if i get out of sight of land, I will be in trouble, but here I have charts and can keep to the main channels. In a few years when I have all modern navigational equipment, I have plans to go to a lot of places.
I guess I have ranted enough, especially for a newbie. Maybe Dave didnt mean to come across as he did. But I can tell you it raised my hackles as it seems to have done on a few others.
My advise - go for it. We all can't afford the jump in, turn the key and sail away type of vessel that some ppl on this list obviously can. But, don't have stars in your eyes if you are buying a $1500 boat cause it will be a bit until she looks like the princess of the seas that you see in the glossy boating magazines
Rob - lost on an island somewhere in Georgian bay with a boat with a hole in the bottom
----- Original Message -----
There is so much in this message to respond to I just couldn't
find a good place to snip it...
So, from the top...
An 84 boat is too old to buy????? WOW
(SNIP) Single best advice I ever received from this list (maybe anywhere)
was:
Don't wait, do it now. You won't regret doing it before you think you are
100% ready.
View from the cheap seats, Joel Wilkins
I'm with Joel on this one. If it wasn't for the "sweat equity" factor and
acquired skills, I'd be cruising on a Boston Whaler. I'd argue don't buy
any boat that is too big for you to fix yourself!
Remember: Believe me, my young friends" said the Water Rat solemnly, "There
is nothing . . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as
simply messing around in boats, . . . Simply messing, . . . Nothing
really seems to matter, That's the charm of it . . . whether you get
away, or whether you don't, whether you arrive at your destination or
whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all,
you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular". . .
The Wind in the Willows Kenneth Grahame 1908
Regards....
Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V "Curmudgeon" MT44 TC
Currently lying Bond Creek, NC