"Rick Kennerly" <rick@mouseherder.com> said: What really gets me are the number of folks on the water who seem to think gadgets equal competence (gadgetry overcomes lack of education, training, and experience). But mostly what I dislike about the constant drumbeat of the high end is that it discourages new folks who 1. can't afford to buy in at that level yet and 2. get hoodwinked into thinking that if you can't have the best and the latest gizmo, then they're not safe on the water -------------- I think you might be selling a lot of list members short in that I suspect lot of the stuff put on boats as well as the discussion about it is more, "mans" love of gadgets, rather then being hoodwinked. The good news it is now patriotic to buy stuff. On the other hand as an exhibitor of my companies product at boat shows, I agree that a sales technique that is often used is "you got to have this thing to be safe" or have fun, or make life easy, or whatever. A good aspects of this list and other forums is to discuss these things. I hope that your point about education, training and experience is not lost on the "new folks" reading this list. In my case the education was reading Chapman's, the training was interisland sailing in Hawaii with a compass, parallel rules and chart as well as actively racing; and the experience comes with passage of time. I can remember the first 2400 mile ocean crossing I made with a compass and a sextant on a 28 foot sailboat, however GPS is really nice two are even better and radar is slick. These items really do make it safer IMO if you understand their use. So, new folks, get out there and go somewhere on a boat, any kind of boat. Join a YC, Power Sqdn, CG Aux, for training, but mostly IMO it is getting tiller (wheel) time. Regards Robby & Dolores [robbyr@pacbell.net] S/V Rolling Stone (In Scotland) http://www.selfsteer.com/monitor/covers/MonitorCOV.jpg M/V DOLORES E. (In San Francisco) http://home.pacbell.net/robbyr/index.html