Hello everyone: Here is new technology that might provide efficiencies to power generation and storage. There's examples that old batteries were brought back to life, which in itself is a money saver. Energenx, Inc., has developed core technologies based on an electromagnetic hybrid motor/generator, and on a new methodology for an improved charging process for batteries. This technology is used for the development of new energy supply systems, battery charging systems, and a new generation of electrical motors/generators. The Back EMF Permanent Electromagnetic Motor/Generator, makes use of several unique scientific and technical concepts that have been advantageously used and promoted by inventor John Bedini for many years _Directory:Renaissance Charge Device by Energenx - PESWiki_ (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Renaissance_Charge_Device_by_Energenx) Jim Hughes Money Yoga is Consciously Transforming People's Relationship with Money. _Money Yoga Seminar Series_ (http://www.moneyyogaseminar.com/) In a message dated 12/2/2008 12:00:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com writes: Send Passagemaking-Under-Power mailing list submissions to passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com You can reach the person managing the list at passagemaking-under-power-owner@lists.samurai.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Passagemaking-Under-Power digest..." Today's Topics: 1. PPM Electrical generation & storage (Bob Frenier) 2. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (2elnav@netbistro.com) 3. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (2elnav@netbistro.com) 4. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (Ross Anderson) 5. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (Ross Anderson) 6. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (Ron Rogers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:44:21 -0500 From: "Bob Frenier" <frenier@hughes.net> Subject: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage To: <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <4DE0C4D4306D48E2BCADFA103E232723@bob> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please? I care not whether a PPM will emerge; it has been educational and entertaining reading the thoughts and opinions of listees. Good to have this list active again Regards, John "Seahorse" I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing thread: How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM? In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset and maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine. That advice seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin Plate Pure Lead ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to charge the battery with considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit. A good starter question, then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be charged from how deep a discharge? And does the answer to that mean we could have some truly BIG alternators on that wing engine to do the job? Regards, Bob Frenier Bob Frenier Chelsea, VT ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:09:11 -0800 (PST) From: 2elnav@netbistro.com Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage To: "Passagemaking Under Power List" <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Cc: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com Message-ID: <60189.208.181.70.31.1228180151.squirrel@cluster.abccomm.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please? > John "Seahorse" > > > > I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing > thread: > How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM? > In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset > and maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine. > That advice seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin Plate > Pure Lead ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to charge the > battery with considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit. > A good starter question then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be > charged from how deep a discharge? And does the answer to that mean we > could have some truly BIG alternators on that wing engine to do the job? > Regards, Bob Frenier REPLY If I might add a little something to the discussion. The cost of lead has escalated in recent times. In addition, light weight has proven to be a desirable aspect of cruising boat design. Especially in power cats but also in other boats. It begs the question; does it really make sense to lug around a ton or two of lead batteries in order to never go below about 25% depth of discharge? So far conventional wisdom has suggested that avoiding severe depth of discharge promotes long life in the house batteries. By doing this we end up buying a huge bank of lead acid batteries, suffer the penalty of powering this large mass around with our propulsion engine and on occasion suffering a premature failure due to some miscalculation or other or omission in maintenance. Have we reached a point where the cost involved means it is cheaper to go for deeper depth of discharge and live with only four years of battery life but save on fuel burn by reducing the run time on the genset. And since each change out of the battery bank involves less mass it cost correspondingly less. I'm thinking we need to consider total life cycle costs over five years or more rather than just the initial cost of acquisition. regards Arild ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:09:11 -0800 (PST) From: 2elnav@netbistro.com Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage To: "Passagemaking Under Power List" <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Cc: passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com Message-ID: <60189.208.181.70.31.1228180151.squirrel@cluster.abccomm.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please? > John "Seahorse" > > > > I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing > thread: > How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM? > In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset > and maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine. > That advice seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin Plate > Pure Lead ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to charge the > battery with considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit. > A good starter question then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be > charged from how deep a discharge? And does the answer to that mean we > could have some truly BIG alternators on that wing engine to do the job? > Regards, Bob Frenier REPLY If I might add a little something to the discussion. The cost of lead has escalated in recent times. In addition, light weight has proven to be a desirable aspect of cruising boat design. Especially in power cats but also in other boats. It begs the question; does it really make sense to lug around a ton or two of lead batteries in order to never go below about 25% depth of discharge? So far conventional wisdom has suggested that avoiding severe depth of discharge promotes long life in the house batteries. By doing this we end up buying a huge bank of lead acid batteries, suffer the penalty of powering this large mass around with our propulsion engine and on occasion suffering a premature failure due to some miscalculation or other or omission in maintenance. Have we reached a point where the cost involved means it is cheaper to go for deeper depth of discharge and live with only four years of battery life but save on fuel burn by reducing the run time on the genset. And since each change out of the battery bank involves less mass it cost correspondingly less. I'm thinking we need to consider total life cycle costs over five years or more rather than just the initial cost of acquisition. regards Arild ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:15:13 -0500 From: "Ross Anderson" <10and2@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage To: "Passagemaking Under Power List" <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <e6abc54b0812011715i7fc6222fgd471ed3cc28be269@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I see little reason to have a gen set unless you are opting for electric stoves etc which I think are very inefficient. I prefer using the pony motor (aux. power) as a charging method for the battery bank with a large alternator, which ever battery technology you prefer, and inverters for the electrical output. I find propane better for cooking and you don't need a noisy genset running all the time while on the hook. God Bless - Ross On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Bob Frenier <frenier@hughes.net> wrote: > Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please? I care not > whether a PPM will emerge; it has been educational and entertaining reading > the > > thoughts and opinions of listees. Good to have this list active again > > Regards, > > John > "Seahorse" > > > > I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing thread: > How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM? > > > > In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset and > maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine. That advice > seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin Plate Pure Lead > ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to charge the battery with > considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit. A good starter question, > then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be charged from how deep a > discharge? And does the answer to that mean we could have some truly BIG > alternators on that wing engine to do the job? > > > > Regards, > > Bob Frenier > > Bob Frenier > > Chelsea, VT > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:22:07 -0500 From: "Ross Anderson" <10and2@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage To: "Passagemaking Under Power List" <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <e6abc54b0812011722m78e412e0gb98884bc5966e897@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Following up on Arild's comments, I used Gell type on the old 10&2 and got 9 years out of them and only changed them because I was planning a trip around the Horn and didn't want to get stranded in the puckerbrush.Now use ADM type and so far they seem fine. I do not profess to know the technical issues involved but found the Gell's and ADM's answer my needs. God Bless - Ross On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 8:09 PM, <2elnav@netbistro.com> wrote: >> Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please? >> John "Seahorse" >> >> >> >> I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing >> thread: >> How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM? > >> In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset >> and maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine. >> That advice seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin > Plate > Pure Lead ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to > charge the >> battery with considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit. >> A good starter question then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be >> charged from how deep a discharge? And does the answer to that mean we >> could have some truly BIG alternators on that wing engine to do the job? >> Regards, Bob Frenier > > > REPLY > If I might add a little something to the discussion. The cost of lead has > escalated in recent times. In addition, light weight has proven to be a > desirable aspect of cruising boat design. Especially in power cats but > also in other boats. > It begs the question; does it really make sense to lug around a ton or two > of lead batteries in order to never go below about 25% depth of discharge? > So far conventional wisdom has suggested that avoiding severe depth of > discharge promotes long life in the house batteries. By doing this we end > up buying a huge bank of lead acid batteries, suffer the penalty of > powering this large mass around with our propulsion engine and on occasion > suffering a premature failure due to some miscalculation or other or > omission in maintenance. > > Have we reached a point where the cost involved means it is cheaper to go > for deeper depth of discharge and live with only four years of battery > life but save on fuel burn by reducing the run time on the genset. And > since each change out of the battery bank involves less mass it cost > correspondingly less. > I'm thinking we need to consider total life cycle costs over five years > or more rather than just the initial cost of acquisition. > > regards > Arild > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:35:25 -0500 From: "Ron Rogers" <rcrogers6@kennett.net> Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage To: "'Passagemaking Under Power List'" <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Message-ID: <001601c95426$b2823d20$1786b760$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ross, your current setup is very dangerous. Having Atomic Demolitions (ADM) on board a pleasure boat is just asking for trouble. I can't imagine how you have harnessed their energy to produce electricity, but you must stop. I didn't say this, but a trip to the continental shelf is in order. Ron Rogers -----Original Message----- From: Ross Anderson Following up on Arild's comments, I used Gell type on the old 10&2 and got 9 years out of them and only changed them because I was planning a trip around the Horn and didn't want to get stranded in the puckerbrush.Now use ADM type and so far they seem fine. I do not profess to know the technical issues involved but found the Gell's and ADM's answer my needs. God Bless - Ross ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List End of Passagemaking-Under-Power Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1 ******************************************************** **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. 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