NM
Nic McLean
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 3:12 AM
Hi All,
I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut
too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but
didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC
reference standard.
I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this?
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
Regards,
Nic
VK2KXN VK5ZAT
Hi All,
I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut
too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but
didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC
reference standard.
I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this?
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
Regards,
Nic
VK2KXN VK5ZAT
BH
Bill Hawkins
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 3:16 AM
Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics!
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: Nic McLean
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics!
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: Nic McLean
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
MN
Mike Naruta AA8K
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 3:24 AM
Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same
direction.
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins wrote:
Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics!
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: Nic McLean
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same
direction.
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins wrote:
> Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics!
>
> Sorry.
>
> Bill Hawkins
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nic McLean
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
>
> Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
> accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
>
>
JF
john.foege@gmail.com
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 3:26 AM
But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =)
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same
direction.
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins wrote:
Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics!
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: Nic McLean
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =)
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Naruta AA8K <aa8k@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<time-nuts@febo.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same
direction.
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins wrote:
> Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics!
>
> Sorry.
>
> Bill Hawkins
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nic McLean
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
>
> Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
> accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
>
>
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
MN
Mike Naruta AA8K
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 3:38 AM
True, but there is always a probability that they all happen to
be off one way.
Quite a small probability, but not impossible.
Sorry for the disturbing thought.
:)
john.foege@gmail.com wrote:
But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =)
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same
direction.
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins wrote:
Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics!
Sorry.
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
From: Nic McLean
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
True, but there is always a probability that they all happen to
be off one way.
Quite a small probability, but not impossible.
Sorry for the disturbing thought.
:)
john.foege@gmail.com wrote:
> But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =)
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Naruta AA8K <aa8k@comcast.net>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<time-nuts@febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
>
>
> Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same
> direction.
>
> Sorry.
>
>
> Bill Hawkins wrote:
>> Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics!
>>
>> Sorry.
>>
>> Bill Hawkins
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nic McLean
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
>>
>> Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
>> accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
JL
J. L. Trantham
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 4:04 AM
Google 'Volt Nuts'. Then continue to the website.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Nic McLean
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hi All,
I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut
too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but
didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC
reference standard.
I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this?
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
Regards,
Nic
VK2KXN VK5ZAT
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Google 'Volt Nuts'. Then continue to the website.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Nic McLean
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hi All,
I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut
too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but
didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC
reference standard.
I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this?
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
Regards,
Nic
VK2KXN VK5ZAT
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
CH
Chuck Harris
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 5:12 AM
That will only be true of primary standards. Secondary standards
must be calibrated to some "primary standard". If all 100,000 of
your secondary standards were calibrated to the wrong value, they
will all have values that hover around that wrong value.
-Chuck Harris
john.foege@gmail.com wrote:
But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =)
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Naruta AA8K aa8k@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same
direction.
Sorry.
That will only be true of primary standards. Secondary standards
must be calibrated to some "primary standard". If all 100,000 of
your secondary standards were calibrated to the wrong value, they
will all have values that hover around that wrong value.
-Chuck Harris
john.foege@gmail.com wrote:
> But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =)
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Naruta AA8K <aa8k@comcast.net>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<time-nuts@febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
>
>
> Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same
> direction.
>
> Sorry.
DL
Don Latham
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 8:52 AM
No. You've already fallen in the rabbit hole.. The next thing is to begin
your study of randomness.
HeHeHeHe...
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nic McLean" mcleann@bigpond.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:12 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hi All,
I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut
too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year
but
didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC
reference standard.
I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this?
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
Regards,
Nic
VK2KXN VK5ZAT
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
No. You've already fallen in the rabbit hole.. The next thing is to begin
your study of randomness.
HeHeHeHe...
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nic McLean" <mcleann@bigpond.com>
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
<time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:12 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
> Hi All,
>
> I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut
> too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year
> but
> didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC
> reference standard.
>
>
>
> I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this?
>
>
>
> Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
> accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Nic
>
> VK2KXN VK5ZAT
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
RP
Roy Phillips
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 10:19 AM
Hi Nick
Is it possible to let us have the schematic/details of this SC Magazine
Voltage Reference project, thanks
Roy
From: "Nic McLean" mcleann@bigpond.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:12 AM
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hi All,
I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut
too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year
but
didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC
reference standard.
I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this?
Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
Regards,
Nic
VK2KXN VK5ZAT
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Nick
Is it possible to let us have the schematic/details of this SC Magazine
Voltage Reference project, thanks
Roy
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Nic McLean" <mcleann@bigpond.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:12 AM
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
<time-nuts@febo.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
> Hi All,
>
> I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut
> too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year
> but
> didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC
> reference standard.
>
>
>
> I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this?
>
>
>
> Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how
> accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Nic
>
> VK2KXN VK5ZAT
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
MN
Mike Naruta AA8K
Tue, Jan 12, 2010 3:10 PM
Sure Chuck. What I was talking about was a part of statistics
that we in our gnat-hair-splitting compulsive group may forget
about.
Let's assume that our 100,000 standards were carefully
calibrated against THE standard. There is a small amount of
error in the calibration process. Let us even assume that the
error in the calibration process is normally distributed.
It is not impossible that for a sample of 100,000 secondary
standards, that the errors would be all be off in the same
direction, compared to the standard's value.
Now, granted, this would be a small probability indeed. But it
is possible to toss a coin fifty times and have fifty "heads".
The smart bet is that it won't.
Chuck Harris wrote:
That will only be true of primary standards. Secondary standards
must be calibrated to some "primary standard". If all 100,000 of
your secondary standards were calibrated to the wrong value, they
will all have values that hover around that wrong value.
-Chuck Harris
Sure Chuck. What I was talking about was a part of statistics
that we in our gnat-hair-splitting compulsive group may forget
about.
Let's assume that our 100,000 standards were carefully
calibrated against THE standard. There is a small amount of
error in the calibration process. Let us even assume that the
error in the calibration process is normally distributed.
It is not impossible that for a sample of 100,000 secondary
standards, that the errors would be all be off in the same
direction, compared to the standard's value.
Now, granted, this would be a small probability indeed. But it
is possible to toss a coin fifty times and have fifty "heads".
The smart bet is that it won't.
Chuck Harris wrote:
> That will only be true of primary standards. Secondary standards
> must be calibrated to some "primary standard". If all 100,000 of
> your secondary standards were calibrated to the wrong value, they
> will all have values that hover around that wrong value.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
