time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

View all threads

5>10 doubler and old Toko RF catalogue (Cirkit 2nd ed. 1994)

CS
Charles Steinmetz
Tue, Feb 3, 2015 9:12 PM

Bruce wrote:

Whilst the output signal of the barely class A JFET amplifier has a
lower unwanted harmonic content and thus requires less filtering to
achieve a given suppression of unwanted harmonics and/or
subharmonics, the question of the flicker phase noise penalty
incurred by the barely class A amplifier approach remains unresolved.

I posted the resolution a few days ago.

As I said then, I adjusted the bias and input parameters of my
breadboard doubler to match the conditions under which the FETs are
operated in the doubler posted on your site, and measured the change
in noise (including in the flicker region).  The noise decreased by a
fraction of a dB.  Accordingly, I conclude that the barely class A
doubler's noise, including flicker noise, is within a fraction of a
dB of a Class AB doubler using the same FETs that you consider optimized.

I also explained then why this result should come as no surprise (one
FET in a Class AB or B doubler will not be contributing noise when it
is cut off -- but that coincides with the other FET being at or near
full current, so the total noise is dominated by the noise of the
full-current FET and the benefit due to the cut-off FET is insignificant).

There may be quieter FETs with lower flicker noise corners available
that have similar medium-cutoff characteristics and are, therefore,
suitable for this use -- but for the reasons I have given, I believe
that similar relative noise relationships between barely Class A and
Class AB doublers using such FETs would hold for them, as
well.  NOTE:  For anyone simulating JFET circuits, be aware that many
available JFET models do not model flicker noise at all, and many of
those that do are wildly inaccurate at simulating noise in the
flicker region.  As always, there is no substitute for building and
measuring the circuit.

Best regards,

Charles

Bruce wrote: >Whilst the output signal of the barely class A JFET amplifier has a >lower unwanted harmonic content and thus requires less filtering to >achieve a given suppression of unwanted harmonics and/or >subharmonics, the question of the flicker phase noise penalty >incurred by the barely class A amplifier approach remains unresolved. I posted the resolution a few days ago. As I said then, I adjusted the bias and input parameters of my breadboard doubler to match the conditions under which the FETs are operated in the doubler posted on your site, and measured the change in noise (including in the flicker region). The noise decreased by a fraction of a dB. Accordingly, I conclude that the barely class A doubler's noise, including flicker noise, is within a fraction of a dB of a Class AB doubler using the same FETs that you consider optimized. I also explained then why this result should come as no surprise (one FET in a Class AB or B doubler will not be contributing noise when it is cut off -- but that coincides with the other FET being at or near full current, so the total noise is dominated by the noise of the full-current FET and the benefit due to the cut-off FET is insignificant). There may be quieter FETs with lower flicker noise corners available that have similar medium-cutoff characteristics and are, therefore, suitable for this use -- but for the reasons I have given, I believe that similar relative noise relationships between barely Class A and Class AB doublers using such FETs would hold for them, as well. NOTE: For anyone simulating JFET circuits, be aware that many available JFET models do not model flicker noise at all, and many of those that do are wildly inaccurate at simulating noise in the flicker region. As always, there is no substitute for building and measuring the circuit. Best regards, Charles
AB
Andrea Baldoni
Wed, Feb 4, 2015 1:33 PM

On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 01:12:41AM -0500, Charles Steinmetz wrote:

transformer into a 50 ohm load, the green trace results.  This trace
shows the simulated raw output, without any traps.  Obviously, this
is very much closer to a clean 10MHz signal than the rectified
signal in Figure 1.

Thank you for your explanation and graph. I got the point.
The wave shaping is very impressive.
Can you put in another graph the calculated difference to a pure sine wave?

Best regards,
Andrea Baldoni

On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 01:12:41AM -0500, Charles Steinmetz wrote: > transformer into a 50 ohm load, the green trace results. This trace > shows the simulated raw output, without any traps. Obviously, this > is very much closer to a clean 10MHz signal than the rectified > signal in Figure 1. Thank you for your explanation and graph. I got the point. The wave shaping is very impressive. Can you put in another graph the calculated difference to a pure sine wave? Best regards, Andrea Baldoni
CS
Charles Steinmetz
Wed, Feb 4, 2015 9:11 PM

Andrea wrote:

Can you put in another graph the calculated difference to a pure sine wave?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the calculated difference to a pure
sine wave."  I already reported the amplitudes of all of the visible
spurs (that is, the ones above the simulation noise floor), which
define the departure from a pure 10MHz sine wave.  I am attaching
below the simulated spectrum analysis from which I took those
reported amplitudes, if that helps.  (There is no new data here, it
is just graphical rather than tabular.)

Again, this is from a simulation, and I purposely introduced 10mV of
gate imbalance to model imperfectly-matched FETs.  It is the raw
output from the doubler, with no traps installed.  The breadboard
circuit performs similarly, although the 5MHz and 15MHz components
are about 10dB lower from the breadboard than they are shown in this
simulation (this depends on how well matched the FETs are -- I was
able to get a better balance in real life than the imbalance I
purposely introduced for this simulation).

Best regards,

Charles

Andrea wrote: >Can you put in another graph the calculated difference to a pure sine wave? I'm not sure what you mean by "the calculated difference to a pure sine wave." I already reported the amplitudes of all of the visible spurs (that is, the ones above the simulation noise floor), which define the departure from a pure 10MHz sine wave. I am attaching below the simulated spectrum analysis from which I took those reported amplitudes, if that helps. (There is no new data here, it is just graphical rather than tabular.) Again, this is from a simulation, and I purposely introduced 10mV of gate imbalance to model imperfectly-matched FETs. It is the raw output from the doubler, with no traps installed. The breadboard circuit performs similarly, although the 5MHz and 15MHz components are about 10dB lower from the breadboard than they are shown in this simulation (this depends on how well matched the FETs are -- I was able to get a better balance in real life than the imbalance I purposely introduced for this simulation). Best regards, Charles