Re: T&T: Lower stations, do you use yours?
I'd much rather drive from the Flying Bridge, If it is uncomfortably cold
or rough I will move down to the lower helm which is fine, but the only
seating I have there is a tall "directors chair" which is neither comfortable
nor stable so I usually wind up standing. I don't really like to run the
generator and A/C while traveling so the lower helm can get pretty hot in the
Summer.
Either one sure beats sitting at a desk in an office!
Steve Willett
Monk 36, Gumbo
Thibodaux, Louisiana
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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I use our lower station on our 40 OA more than 90% fo the time. I second all
that Marin said.
Richard
A Cappella
OK, since we're on multi-station as a topic,
I'm renovating a 56 foot steel trawler. Would like to have a PH (pilot
house) and FB (fly bridge) steering, engine, and nav controls.
I'm planning on a self-contained hydraulic steering control setup, which I
understand is pretty easy to split between multiple stations, and maintain
all control should there be a power outage.
It's the engine control I'm most concerned with, especially being able to
maintain engine control in the midst of a power failure (sh$%^ happens, and
I'd like to be able to motor home). Is it possible to have a control cable,
say in the PH, and a remote control up on the FB?
How do other trawlers have this configured? Looking for a bullet-proof
solution, and at least two stations (maybe three, if I want to prep for
Mediterranean mooring and put another remote station at the rear of the
boat.
Ideas? Suggestions?
Mark Andrew
"Black River", 56 steel, circa 1955
c: (616) 928-4542
-----Original Message-----
From:
trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces+msandrew=chartermi.net@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces+msandrew=chartermi.net@lists.samurai
.com] On Behalf Of Richard Tomkinson
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 3:45 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Lower stations, do you use yours?
I use our lower station on our 40 OA more than 90% fo the time. I second all
that Marin said.
Richard
A Cappella
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It's the engine control I'm most concerned with, especially being
able to
maintain engine control in the midst of a power failure (sh$%^
happens, and
I'd like to be able to motor home). Is it possible to have a
control cable,
say in the PH, and a remote control up on the FB?
This is exactly how our boat is configured. Small electronic controls
at each helm to a large actuator in the engine room - one to each
engine.
These are later versions of what we have:
Control head:
http://www.kobelt.com/6501_cut_sheet.html
Actuator:
http://www.kobelt.com/6524_cut_sheet.html
It looks like they now have a combination product too:
http://www.kobelt.com/mightymariner_cut_sheet.html
The control heads are tiny things. Push forward and you're in gear.
Pushing more adds throttle. Pull back and it goes into reverse and
adds throttle as you pull back more. If you slip too quickly between
forward and reverse, there's a built-in delay so it won't engage the
transmission.
If all the electronics fail, the large levers on the actuators allow
manual control of the transmission and throttle with someone in the
engine room. We've practiced that once. It's definitely an emergency
type of thing.
Here's a short real-time video taken on my phone while undocking at
Charleston:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsF-BnpTwSg&feature=channel_page
It's a little jumpy because, heck, I was more concerned with
controlling the boat! There's a quick view of the controls when I put
both engines into forward at the end (they were split when walking off
the dock).
---===
Jeffrey Siegel
M/V aCappella
DeFever 53RPH
W1ACA/WDB4350
Castine, Maine
www.activecaptain.com
The Interactive Cruising Guidebook
..
"Mark Andrew" msandrew@chartermi.net writes:
I'm planning on a self-contained hydraulic steering control setup, which I
understand is pretty easy to split between multiple stations, and maintain
all control should there be a power outage.
Yes, in a hydraulic steering system each helm pump operates independently.
It's the engine control I'm most concerned with, especially being able to
maintain engine control in the midst of a power failure (sh$%^ happens, and
I'd like to be able to motor home). Is it possible to have a control cable,
say in the PH, and a remote control up on the FB?
This is exactly what you should do.
How do other trawlers have this configured? Looking for a bullet-proof
solution, and at least two stations (maybe three, if I want to prep for
Mediterranean mooring and put another remote station at the rear of the
boat.
You may hear some other recommendations, such as electronic controls, but I
am going to suggest very strongly that you take a look at the low-tech
solution: Hynautic hydraulic controls. These have been around about 30 years,
they are very simple to install and maintain, and best of all they work
perfectly for multiple stations. I have them on Island Eagle and have not had
a single problem. Total maintainence over 6 years consists of making sure
there is air pressure in the resevoir.
The official Hynautic web site does not carry much information anymore, but
here is some info:
http://www.seamar.com/hengine.html
The user manual is at http://tinyurl.com/ryvcl4
You can also find lots of stuff for sale on eBay, just search for "hynautic
control". Your very best bet would be to find a boat "upgrading" to
electronic controls from Hynautic and just buying the whole system.
Scott Welch
Product Manager, Open Text Collaboration and Social Media Group
www.opentext.com
905 762 6101
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden
"Mark Andrew" wrote:
How do other trawlers have this configured? Looking for a bullet-proof
solution, and at least two stations (maybe three, if I want to prep for
Mediterranean mooring and put another remote station at the rear of the
boat.
The new drive-by-wire controls (with backup) are what you want. Check out
the Glendenning web site (among others):
http://www.glendinningprods.com/marine.html
Pricey, but neat.
Bob
Robert Calhoun Smith Jr in DC
M/V MARY KATHRYN
Hatteras 58 LRC
Lying South River
Annapolis, MD
"Jeffrey Siegel" wrote:
Here's a short real-time video taken on my phone while undocking at
Charleston:
Really neat Jeff!
Now can we see the video of aCappella undocking from way down on the INSIDE
of the MegaDock with 3 knots of current and 20 knots of wind...hehehe.
Bob
Robert Calhoun Smith Jr in DC
M/V MARY KATHRYN
Hatteras 58 LRC
Lying South River
Annapolis, MD
Friday, May 8, 2009, 6:27:58 AM, Mark wrote:
MA> OK, since we're on multi-station as a topic,
MA> I'm renovating a 56 foot steel trawler. Would like to have a PH (pilot
MA> house) and FB (fly bridge) steering, engine, and nav controls.
MA> I'm planning on a self-contained hydraulic steering control setup, which I
MA> understand is pretty easy to split between multiple stations, and maintain
MA> all control should there be a power outage.
MA> It's the engine control I'm most concerned with, especially being able to
MA> maintain engine control in the midst of a power failure (sh$%^ happens, and
MA> I'd like to be able to motor home). Is it possible to have a control cable,
MA> say in the PH, and a remote control up on the FB?
MA> How do other trawlers have this configured? Looking for a bullet-proof
MA> solution, and at least two stations (maybe three, if I want to prep for
MA> Mediterranean mooring and put another remote station at the rear of the
MA> boat.
MA> Ideas? Suggestions?
MA> Mark Andrew
MA> "Black River", 56 steel, circa 1955
MA> c: (616) 928-4542
I've had three boats with flybridge and cabin helms. The first and
current boats had Teleflex cable engine controls, and the second had
Kobelt (I think). In all cases the cables from the upper helm
controls connect to the lower helm controls, and cables go from the
lower helm controls to the engines and transmissions. Both upper and
lower helm controls are active at all times - no switching involved,
and purely mechanical, so no electrical concerns. I don't know how
many stations can be connected this way before friction becomes
excessive, but there's no problem with two stations.
I have Teleflex hydraulic steering (no pump or external power
required). In this system, the two helms and the autopilot pump are
simply plumbed in parallel - again, no switching to change stations,
and no electricity involved for manual steering. (This is on a 31 ft
boat - you may need power steering on a larger vessel...)
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Ennos 31 "Honeycomb"
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
Well, I've spent a half hour going in circles with Teleflex, the owners of
the Hynautic hydraulic engine controls. No one in the company seems to know
anything about the product line, and it's like pulling teeth getting past
the phone receptionist...seems kind of risky in this economic environment to
put the sales future of your company in the hands of your phone
receptionists, but there you go...
The www.teleflex.com web site has no information, although they do talk
about their Hynautic steering controls.
Mark Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bennett [mailto:peterbb4@interchange.ubc.ca]
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:49 AM
To: Mark Andrew; trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Lower stations, do you use yours?
Friday, May 8, 2009, 6:27:58 AM, Mark wrote:
MA> OK, since we're on multi-station as a topic,
MA> I'm renovating a 56 foot steel trawler. Would like to have a PH (pilot
MA> house) and FB (fly bridge) steering, engine, and nav controls.
MA> I'm planning on a self-contained hydraulic steering control setup, which
I
MA> understand is pretty easy to split between multiple stations, and
maintain
MA> all control should there be a power outage.
MA> It's the engine control I'm most concerned with, especially being able
to
MA> maintain engine control in the midst of a power failure (sh$%^ happens,
and
MA> I'd like to be able to motor home). Is it possible to have a control
cable,
MA> say in the PH, and a remote control up on the FB?
MA> How do other trawlers have this configured? Looking for a bullet-proof
MA> solution, and at least two stations (maybe three, if I want to prep for
MA> Mediterranean mooring and put another remote station at the rear of the
MA> boat.
MA> Ideas? Suggestions?
MA> Mark Andrew
MA> "Black River", 56 steel, circa 1955
MA> c: (616) 928-4542
I've had three boats with flybridge and cabin helms. The first and
current boats had Teleflex cable engine controls, and the second had
Kobelt (I think). In all cases the cables from the upper helm
controls connect to the lower helm controls, and cables go from the
lower helm controls to the engines and transmissions. Both upper and
lower helm controls are active at all times - no switching involved,
and purely mechanical, so no electrical concerns. I don't know how
many stations can be connected this way before friction becomes
excessive, but there's no problem with two stations.
I have Teleflex hydraulic steering (no pump or external power
required). In this system, the two helms and the autopilot pump are
simply plumbed in parallel - again, no switching to change stations,
and no electricity involved for manual steering. (This is on a 31 ft
boat - you may need power steering on a larger vessel...)
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Ennos 31 "Honeycomb"
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
Some have turned to Kobelt - especially for hydraulic cylinders.
Ron Rogers
"Mark Andrew" msandrew@chartermi.net writes:
Well, I've spent a half hour going in circles with Teleflex, the owners of
the Hynautic hydraulic engine controls. No one in the company seems to know
anything about the product line, and it's like pulling teeth getting past
the phone receptionist...seems kind of risky in this economic environment to
put the sales future of your company in the hands of your phone
receptionists, but there you go...
The www.teleflex.com web site has no information, although they do talk
about their Hynautic steering controls.
Trust me, you are right, it's hard to get info. These are "old tech" and not
what Hynautic is pushing these days. However there is definitely an engineer
there still supporting the product, I had a good chat with him a few years
ago. But in any event they are dead simple, very very easy to install, more
or less indestructible, and work perfectly for multiple stations with no
extra bits and pieces. Get the manual, buy what you need, on eBay, and you
will be good to go. Waaayyyyy less expensive than the electronic ones, and
you can fix these with an adjustable wrench and WD-40. Plus they feel very
nice and solid in your hands.
Scott Welch
Product Manager, Open Text Collaboration and Social Media Group
www.opentext.com
905 762 6101
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Rogers" rcrogers6@kennett.net
To: "'Mark Andrew'" msandrew@chartermi.net;
trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: T&T: Lower stations, do you use yours?
Some have turned to Kobelt - especially for hydraulic cylinders.
Ron Rogers
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Don't forget about www.Jastram.com.
This is the company that bought out the original Wagner hydraulic steering
systems. Some of their staff date back to the early days and they have
made a point of retaining some compatibility so you can stil get o-ring eal
kits etc.
Jastram is located in North Vancouver BC. Despite your first impression
from going to their website, they do in fact make systems for boats down to
35 - 40 foot. Which is what the original fishing boats were sized at.
Wagner and Capilano had a common origin but diverged as the two founding
partners sent their seperate ways. ) Paul Wagner sold hi sinterest in
straight steering systems but still remains active with his autopilot
business. Pretty much all other systems are derived from these two
original system designs.
Jastram will in fact design a system from scratch if you so desire. for
those contemplating a wholesale upgrade or constrution from scratch you
can't do better than going there.
No connection to the company except when I was working in a naval architect
design office we relied heavily on their expertise to keep us out of
trouble.
Arild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott H.E. Welch" swelch@opentext.com
To: "Mark Andrew" msandrew@chartermi.net
Cc: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: T&T: Lower stations, do you use yours?
"Mark Andrew" msandrew@chartermi.net writes:
Well, I've spent a half hour going in circles with Teleflex, the owners of
the Hynautic hydraulic engine controls. No one in the company seems to
know
anything about the product line, and it's like pulling teeth getting past
the phone receptionist...seems kind of risky in this economic environment
to
put the sales future of your company in the hands of your phone
receptionists, but there you go...
The www.teleflex.com web site has no information, although they do talk
about their Hynautic steering controls.
Trust me, you are right, it's hard to get info. These are "old tech" and
not
what Hynautic is pushing these days. However there is definitely an
engineer
there still supporting the product, I had a good chat with him a few years
ago. But in any event they are dead simple, very very easy to install,
more
or less indestructible, and work perfectly for multiple stations with no
extra bits and pieces. Get the manual, buy what you need, on eBay, and you
will be good to go. Waaayyyyy less expensive than the electronic ones, and
you can fix these with an adjustable wrench and WD-40. Plus they feel very
nice and solid in your hands.
Scott Welch
Product Manager, Open Text Collaboration and Social Media Group
www.opentext.com
The US Coast Guard Auxiliary Interpreter Corps has created a glossary of
nautical terms translated from English to French, Italian, Russian, and
Spanish. Many other languages are in the works.
http://cgwebs.net/INTERPRETER/
You have to scroll down the page a bit to find them.
Todd Mains
Scappoose, Oregon
2elnav@netbistro.com writes:
Jastram will in fact design a system from scratch if you so desire. for
those contemplating a wholesale upgrade or constrution from scratch you
can't do better than going there.
I will second this. I used Jastram components when I refit Island Eagle with
hydraulic steering, and they were great. With some companies, you talk to
sales people and at the very end might get a bit of engineering expertise.
With Jastram, when you call you are talking right to the engineers. I have
had no problems whatsoever with my Jastram equipment and would not hesitate
to recommend them highly.
By the way, they also have a sizing calculator which they use to determine
the proper ram and pump sizes.
Scott Welch
Product Manager, Open Text Collaboration and Social Media Group
www.opentext.com
905 762 6101
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden
Thanks all, for the infob&.the Hynautic solution looks great for bullet-proof
engine controls, and had planned to go with Jastram for steering controls.
Mark Andrew
c: (616) 928-4542
From: Scott H.E. Welch [mailto:swelch@opentext.com]
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:50 PM
To: Mark Andrew
Cc: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Lower stations, do you use yours?
"Mark Andrew" msandrew@chartermi.net writes:
Well, I've spent a half hour going in circles with Teleflex, the owners of
the Hynautic hydraulic engine controls. No one in the company seems to know
anything about the product line, and it's like pulling teeth getting past
the phone receptionist...seems kind of risky in this economic environment to
put the sales future of your company in the hands of your phone
receptionists, but there you go...
The www.teleflex.com web site has no information, although they do talk
about their Hynautic steering controls.
Trust me, you are right, it's hard to get info. These are "old tech" and not
what Hynautic is pushing these days. However there is definitely an engineer
there still supporting the product, I had a good chat with him a few years
ago. But in any event they are dead simple, very very easy to install, more or
less indestructible, and work perfectly for multiple stations with no extra
bits and pieces. Get the manual, buy what you need, on eBay, and you will be
good to go. Waaayyyyy less expensive than the electronic ones, and you can fix
these with an adjustable wrench and WD-40. Plus they feel very nice and solid
in your hands.
Scott Welch
Product Manager, Open Text Collaboration and Social Media Group
905 762 6101
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn
out." - John Wooden
OK, just to throw a fly in the ointment, and get some of the old salts to
chime inb&.technically, I was told long ago (by a very old salt) that what
webre referring to as a b fly-bridgeb (that part of the upper deck
straddling the mid section and the pilothouse roof, should more properly be
referred to as the b Monkey Bridgeb .
Comments?
Mark Andrew
b Black Riverb
Holland, MI
The monkey bridge is a term from big ships typically those with a center
deck house in between fore and aft cargo holds. The Monkey bridge was right
on top of the pilot house roof. It was called a monkey bridge because it
was so difficult to get up there seasoned salts figured only a monkey
could clamber up there.
Flying bridge was a term used by fishermen for a rudimantary control
station on top of the wheel house for getting full vizibility all round
(360 degrees) when entering harbor. It rarely had anything but helm
and engine controls; none of those new fangled gadgets and meters and such.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Andrew" msandrew@chartermi.net
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: T&T: Lower stations, do you use yours?
OK, just to throw a fly in the ointment, and get some of the old salts to
chime inb&.technically, I was told long ago (by a very old salt) that what
webre referring to as a b fly-bridgeb (that part of the upper deck
straddling the mid section and the pilothouse roof, should more properly
be
referred to as the b Monkey Bridgeb .
Comments?
Mark Andrew
b Black Riverb
Holland, MI
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-----Original Message-----
OK, just to throw a fly in the ointment, and get some of the old salts
to chime in - technically, I was told long ago (by a very old salt) that
what webre referring to as a fly-bridge (that part of the upper deck
straddling the mid section and the pilothouse roof, should more
properly be referred to as the Monkey Bridge.
Mark,
What's with this "old salt" stuff? Hey, I like to think that I am a
not-so-old salt (even if more than a few hairs are getting salt colored),
and yes, I've steered a ship from the monkey bridge. It is just as you
described.
The WWI Liberty Ships had a conventional enclosed bridge that had very
limited visibility out the 12" port holes, so most of the conning was done
from the monkey bridge out in the open air, right on top of the pilot house.
You can see a picture of the monkey bridge on the SS John W. Brown at:
http://www.geoghegan.us/brown-cruise/jwb-cruise.htm Look halfway down the
page on the right side.
BTW- T&T is a plain text mailing list. Your post prior post had html
formatting instead of plain text - and that is what was causing the strange
characters in your post. If you switch to sending plain text, the web server
will not be stripping any html code, and no strange characters will be
showing up.
Kevin