John observed: > Although otherwise brilliant with their marketing, it is unfortunate that > PAE has elected to make the Nordhavn Owner's site unavailable to others Scott replies: PAE doesn't dictate the rules of the owners website, the owners do. I recently posted a suggestion to open the forum and the reply was a preference to keep it owners only. The reason appeared to be they wanted a place where they didn't have to sort through lots of other topics to find relevant information. Since all the postings were owners there was a high instance of relevance. Adding the administrative burden of including non-owners was more then the administrators wanted to sign up for. They are all volunteers and would prefer not to become full time web admins. John continued: Of course they are not the only ones to do this, but as they portray themselves quite loftily, you'd think that would extend to "full disclosure," so to say. Scott asks: I don't understand what loftily is? The owners that post on the Nordhavn forum cross post to PUP list all the time. Nordhavn owners are just like any other owners, some quite nice, open and easy going, some not. I'd refrain from making generalizations that lump an entire community of people into one bucket. I've been criticized for bashing Selene boats, I guess my comments like "I'd be proud to own one, and "they are beautiful boats" somehow gets lost when a single negative experience is mentioned. People are emotional about their boats, fellow owners and other peoples opinions. Email lacks the ability to provide inflection and is therefore subject to having the intent of the message be skewed by the perspective the reader brings to the discussion. Often a single word can incorrectly become the focus of an interpretation and send a discussion into a realm that wasn't intended. There is nothing elitist or arrogant about the Nordhavn owners forum being close d othe r than a desire to minimize the amount of administration overhead need to operate it and maximize the benefit to the owners reading it. Have a great day! Scott Bulger, N40II, Seattle WA -------------- Original message -------------- From: Truelove39@aol.com > Thanks, Milt, for sharing the info on the Horta agent and also on the fuel > people. Since we can take up to 1500 gallons we will see what they can do > next time we head offshore. > > Although otherwise brilliant with their marketing, it is unfortunate that > PAE has elected to make the Nordhavn Owner's site unavailable to others as > undoubtedly there is a lot of good info there which is not peculiar to Nordhavn > boats. Whereas we understand that non-owners should not be allowed to post, > it's a shame that only owners can read the posts on that site, a part of an > otherwise open boating community. Of course they are not the only ones to do > this, but as they portray themselves quite loftily, you'd think that would > extend to "full disclosure," so to say. To their credit, I have found the > people > at PAE to be helpful and forthcoming with information on, for instance, > elements of their paravane design. > > Regards, > > John > "Seahorse" > > > > Nordhavn 50 owner Phil Eslinger had a post on the Nordhavn owners' > site noting that using shipping agents in foreign countries can be a > huge aid for passagemaking trawler owners when cruising overseas. He > proposed starting a list on the site all of the agents Nordhavn > owners have used. If someone will pass this to the site, let me > provide the following contact information for Marco Quadros who has > been a wonderful resource for Nordhavn owners visiting Horta: > > Marco Quadros (senior agent) > Bensaude Agentes de Navegaceo Lda. > Rua Vasco da Gama, 42 > Horta, Faial, Azores (Portugal) > Tel. 351-292-293-031 or 351-292-293-033 > Mobile: 351-918-792-536 > marco.quadros@bensaude.pt > > As something worth adding to the list, I should also mention that > fuel arrangements for both the Nordhavn Atlantic Rally 2004 and Med > Bound 2007 have been made through Global Yacht Fuel in Fort > Lauderdale. Essentially, this involves establishing an account with > Global, then notifying them when and where one wants to bunker. > Using their worldwide contacts, Global will negotiate the best price, > arrange the fueling (usually through an agent such as Marco above), > and bill the owner, meaning you can pay for your fuel through your > U.S. bank account rather than in local currency. The fuel we've > gotten using Global on this trip (and on the NAR) has been among the > cleanest we've ever burned and arrangements have been virtually > hassle-free. Global makes its money by taking a small percentage of > what we pay for fuel, yet the fuel prices are normally less than we'd > pay if we simply drove up and asked for a full-up so they're saving > us money. More important, perhaps, my comfort level is high with my > sense that our chances of getting good, clean fuel are greater using > Global. However, keep in mind that they are not interested in > talking to you about less than, say, 1,000 gallons at a time. Their > principal business focuses on bunkering megayachts, so 1,000 gallons > is small stuff to them. Contact information: > > Richard Manto, Gail Vanstone, Marianne VanCline > Global Yacht Fuel > 412 SE 17th St. > Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316 > Tel. 954-462-6050 > marianne@globalyachtfuel.com > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions, > formerly known as Trawler World Productions.

One suggestion may be for the Nordhavn Owners Group (or for that matter any group) to have the message/posting portion of the site available to non-members. Any posting capabilities or member only portions of the site would only be available to registered members! This way the Owner's Group controls the input and is not spending time answering generalized questions (ie. what is a LRC trawler?). Such an arrangement could be of benefit to the entire boating community...... ----- Original Message ----- From: <scottebulger@comcast.net> To: "Passagemaking Under Power List" <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:03 AM Subject: Re: [PUP] Nordhavn Owners web site > John observed: > Although otherwise brilliant with their marketing, it is > unfortunate that >> PAE has elected to make the Nordhavn Owner's site unavailable to others > > Scott replies: PAE doesn't dictate the rules of the owners website, the > owners do. I recently posted a suggestion to open the forum and the reply > was a preference to keep it owners only. The reason appeared to be they > wanted a place where they didn't have to sort through lots of other topics > to find relevant information. Since all the postings were owners there > was a high instance of relevance. Adding the administrative burden of > including non-owners was more then the administrators wanted to sign up > for. They are all volunteers and would prefer not to become full time web > admins. > > John continued: Of course they are not the only ones to do this, but as > they portray themselves quite loftily, you'd think that would extend to > "full disclosure," so to say. > > Scott asks: I don't understand what loftily is? The owners that post on > the Nordhavn forum cross post to PUP list all the time. Nordhavn owners > are just like any other owners, some quite nice, open and easy going, some > not. I'd refrain from making generalizations that lump an entire > community of people into one bucket. I've been criticized for bashing > Selene boats, I guess my comments like "I'd be proud to own one, and "they > are beautiful boats" somehow gets lost when a single negative experience > is mentioned. People are emotional about their boats, fellow owners and > other peoples opinions. Email lacks the ability to provide inflection and > is therefore subject to having the intent of the message be skewed by the > perspective the reader brings to the discussion. Often a single word can > incorrectly become the focus of an interpretation and send a discussion > into a realm that wasn't intended. There is nothing elitist or arrogant > about the Nordhavn owners forum being close > d othe > r than a desire to minimize the amount of administration overhead need to > operate it and maximize the benefit to the owners reading it. Have a > great day! > > Scott Bulger, N40II, Seattle WA > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Truelove39@aol.com > >> Thanks, Milt, for sharing the info on the Horta agent and also on the >> fuel >> people. Since we can take up to 1500 gallons we will see what they can do >> next time we head offshore. >> >> Although otherwise brilliant with their marketing, it is unfortunate that >> PAE has elected to make the Nordhavn Owner's site unavailable to others >> as >> undoubtedly there is a lot of good info there which is not peculiar to >> Nordhavn >> boats. Whereas we understand that non-owners should not be allowed to >> post, >> it's a shame that only owners can read the posts on that site, a part of >> an >> otherwise open boating community. Of course they are not the only ones to >> do >> this, but as they portray themselves quite loftily, you'd think that >> would >> extend to "full disclosure," so to say. To their credit, I have found the >> people >> at PAE to be helpful and forthcoming with information on, for instance, >> elements of their paravane design. >> >> Regards, >> >> John >> "Seahorse" >> >> >> > Nordhavn 50 owner Phil Eslinger had a post on the Nordhavn owners' >> site noting that using shipping agents in foreign countries can be a >> huge aid for passagemaking trawler owners when cruising overseas. He >> proposed starting a list on the site all of the agents Nordhavn >> owners have used. If someone will pass this to the site, let me >> provide the following contact information for Marco Quadros who has >> been a wonderful resource for Nordhavn owners visiting Horta: >> >> Marco Quadros (senior agent) >> Bensaude Agentes de Navegaceo Lda. >> Rua Vasco da Gama, 42 >> Horta, Faial, Azores (Portugal) >> Tel. 351-292-293-031 or 351-292-293-033 >> Mobile: 351-918-792-536 >> marco.quadros@bensaude.pt >> >> As something worth adding to the list, I should also mention that >> fuel arrangements for both the Nordhavn Atlantic Rally 2004 and Med >> Bound 2007 have been made through Global Yacht Fuel in Fort >> Lauderdale. Essentially, this involves establishing an account with >> Global, then notifying them when and where one wants to bunker. >> Using their worldwide contacts, Global will negotiate the best price, >> arrange the fueling (usually through an agent such as Marco above), >> and bill the owner, meaning you can pay for your fuel through your >> U.S. bank account rather than in local currency. The fuel we've >> gotten using Global on this trip (and on the NAR) has been among the >> cleanest we've ever burned and arrangements have been virtually >> hassle-free. Global makes its money by taking a small percentage of >> what we pay for fuel, yet the fuel prices are normally less than we'd >> pay if we simply drove up and asked for a full-up so they're saving >> us money. More important, perhaps, my comfort level is high with my >> sense that our chances of getting good, clean fuel are greater using >> Global. However, keep in mind that they are not interested in >> talking to you about less than, say, 1,000 gallons at a time. Their >> principal business focuses on bunkering megayachts, so 1,000 gallons >> is small stuff to them. Contact information: >> >> Richard Manto, Gail Vanstone, Marianne VanCline >> Global Yacht Fuel >> 412 SE 17th St. >> Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316 >> Tel. 954-462-6050 >> marianne@globalyachtfuel.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's free at >> http://www.aol.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power >> >> To unsubscribe send email to >> passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word >> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. >> >> Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World >> Productions, >> formerly known as Trawler World Productions. > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power > > To unsubscribe send email to > passagemaking-under-power-request@lists.samurai.com with the word > UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message. > > Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World > Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.

Scott: It might make sense to admit just a few others who are not owners, but have some definitive area of expertise to offer to the owners. This could be by invitation only. Al Golden International Marine Insurance Services 1-800-541-4647