Hi Bob, thank you. Wow I did not realize that. Very interesting :) B.t.w. there is a HP 5071A on ...bay item nr 263497171568. Is this cesium clock ok for buying? -- with best Regards Chris Am 03.02.2019 um 21:29 schrieb Bob kb8tq: > Hi > > The key is the top view of the 5065a. You can see through the holes in the top of the unit. > There’s a big empty space to the right in the picture where the optical unit / physics package > should be. There also are a few other tidbits missing but the physics package is the biggie. > > Bob > >> On Feb 3, 2019, at 2:30 PM, Christoph Kopetzky <ck@cksd.de> wrote: >> >> Hello Corby, >> in the case that this is a stupid question... I am sorry but can you tell me how I can see that the optical unit is missing? >> There are no pics of an open 5061A device... >> I am also wondering why this seller is shipping these units for this extraordinary price. >> He is telling in the description that the shipping costs will be calculated at the real destination but I will bet that the click >> on the buy it now button bounds you to pay the whole sum ... >> -- >> >> with best Regards >> >> Chris >> >> Am 03.02.2019 um 18:21 schrieb cdelect@juno.com: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Wanted to warn about the 5065A that has now sold twice on eBay. (Jan 18 >>> and Feb 2) When it first listed I contacted the seller and told him the >>> optical unit was missing (A12) and he should not call it "fully >>> functional" Anyway he sold it for his asking price and now it looks like >>> he just sold it again. If he has it returned and lists it again just be >>> aware its not all there! Not really worth the price with no A12! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Corby >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. >

Hi The gotcha with a Cs is the tubes wear out. Last time I put a tube in a 5071 it cost just about $40,000 including custom shipping of the “hazardous” Cs. From the description on that uint it does not *appear* that things are working correctly. Even if you do get a working Cs standard, the question is - how much longer will the tube last? It might be good for another 10 years. It might die tomorrow. That tends to be a bit of a concern as far as running them all the time in a basement lab. With the high performance tubes in the 5071, my experience was that 6 to 7 years of continuous use was about it. The “standard” tubes in the 5071 should be good for > 2X that time period. None of this is to say that the *only* reason one fails is the tube. It is not at all uncommon to have other stuff fail. Usually the small stuff gets fixed and they go back into service. When the tubes go (or the problem is complicated) the go on the market….. Indeed none of this is to say you *can’t* get a working Cs. You most certainly can. This list is one pretty good place to find a working one from somebody who *knows* that it is running properly. I’m not selling any of mine, but you may see emails from people who are. Of course it there *was* a really good deal on a 5071 … hmmm …. maybe I need another Cs …. :) Bob > On Feb 3, 2019, at 5:16 PM, Christoph Kopetzky <ck@cksd.de> wrote: > > Hi Bob, > thank you. > Wow I did not realize that. Very interesting :) > B.t.w. there is a HP 5071A on ...bay item nr 263497171568. Is this cesium clock ok for buying? > > -- > with best Regards > > Chris > > Am 03.02.2019 um 21:29 schrieb Bob kb8tq: >> Hi >> >> The key is the top view of the 5065a. You can see through the holes in the top of the unit. >> There’s a big empty space to the right in the picture where the optical unit / physics package >> should be. There also are a few other tidbits missing but the physics package is the biggie. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Feb 3, 2019, at 2:30 PM, Christoph Kopetzky <ck@cksd.de> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Corby, >>> in the case that this is a stupid question... I am sorry but can you tell me how I can see that the optical unit is missing? >>> There are no pics of an open 5061A device... >>> I am also wondering why this seller is shipping these units for this extraordinary price. >>> He is telling in the description that the shipping costs will be calculated at the real destination but I will bet that the click >>> on the buy it now button bounds you to pay the whole sum ... >>> -- >>> >>> with best Regards >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Am 03.02.2019 um 18:21 schrieb cdelect@juno.com: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Wanted to warn about the 5065A that has now sold twice on eBay. (Jan 18 >>>> and Feb 2) When it first listed I contacted the seller and told him the >>>> optical unit was missing (A12) and he should not call it "fully >>>> functional" Anyway he sold it for his asking price and now it looks like >>>> he just sold it again. If he has it returned and lists it again just be >>>> aware its not all there! Not really worth the price with no A12! >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Corby >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >

Dear all I currently use a 198 Khz off air standard but I can no longer use 600 khz since it moved from Rugby I have herd a lot about varies frequency references that use satellites This technology has improved immensely & become more affordable over the past 5 years So can a standard locked to a satellite be as good as a Rubidium ? What accuracy can I achieve for a satellite system below £800 as I am not familiar with the latest that are on offer? Regards Paul Bicknell South Coast UK

Hi Bob and time-nuts, thank you for your infos. It seems not to be an easy job to get a used cesium clock in a good shape with some reserve for a good few years of lamp live and an adaquate price. The ones on the market are either for parts or like the both examples at ...bay fakes which costs a lot of money and the not so experienced users are getting into a bigger lot of problems... The other crux with this clocks is oviously that they need to let them running all the time for reaching the better stability and exactness what the should have as as a reference in the lab. Bob your pricing info for an exchange of the cesium tube seems to be not the right direction for the hobby electronics user like me. I think it is a good idea not to buy such a clock at the moment. But the problem of mine and my be a lot of electronic developer and scientists is that they cannot have their reference systems running all the time. It must be possible to build a reference which does not need weeks to reach its best exactness and stability within hours... Is there a known solution available which allows good short time stability and also exactness which will be reached within a maximum of one hour after power on? My thoughts are going into the world of the well known GPSDOs with a good OCXO inside and a precise Timing GPS receiver module like UBlox NEO-M8P or a Furuno GT-87xx, a high precision roof antenna with a good view of the sky, and one of the best rubidium oscillators such a SRS PRS10... This combination must do the trick. It should be not to hard to feed the pps signal from the GPS receiver into the PRS10. I read that the developer from SRS implemented the regulation software loop for that into the firmware of the Rubidium oscillator. With saving the states of the gps and the rubidium in two separate real time clocks (battery buffered) and a few lines of software for the microcontroller to arrange all with a display must be enough. I would be lucky if you guys could give me some tips about that or alternatives to get such a stable reference with a short avalability timeframe for locking and stabilisating. Are there may be ready useable open hardware sources available? Thank you guys in advance for all your help... -- with best Regards Chris Am 03.02.2019 um 23:34 schrieb Bob kb8tq: > Hi > > The gotcha with a Cs is the tubes wear out. Last time I put a tube in a 5071 it cost just > about $40,000 including custom shipping of the “hazardous” Cs. From the description > on that uint it does not *appear* that things are working correctly. > > Even if you do get a working Cs standard, the question is - how much longer will the > tube last? It might be good for another 10 years. It might die tomorrow. That tends to be > a bit of a concern as far as running them all the time in a basement lab. > > With the high performance tubes in the 5071, my experience was that 6 to 7 years of > continuous use was about it. The “standard” tubes in the 5071 should be good for > 2X that > time period. > > None of this is to say that the *only* reason one fails is the tube. It is not at all uncommon > to have other stuff fail. Usually the small stuff gets fixed and they go back into service. > When the tubes go (or the problem is complicated) the go on the market….. > > Indeed none of this is to say you *can’t* get a working Cs. You most certainly can. This > list is one pretty good place to find a working one from somebody who *knows* that it is > running properly. I’m not selling any of mine, but you may see emails from people who are. > > Of course it there *was* a really good deal on a 5071 … hmmm …. maybe I need another Cs …. :) > > Bob > >> On Feb 3, 2019, at 5:16 PM, Christoph Kopetzky <ck@cksd.de> wrote: >> >> Hi Bob, >> thank you. >> Wow I did not realize that. Very interesting :) >> B.t.w. there is a HP 5071A on ...bay item nr 263497171568. Is this cesium clock ok for buying? >> >> -- >> with best Regards >> >> Chris >> >> Am 03.02.2019 um 21:29 schrieb Bob kb8tq: >>> Hi >>> >>> The key is the top view of the 5065a. You can see through the holes in the top of the unit. >>> There’s a big empty space to the right in the picture where the optical unit / physics package >>> should be. There also are a few other tidbits missing but the physics package is the biggie. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Feb 3, 2019, at 2:30 PM, Christoph Kopetzky <ck@cksd.de> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Corby, >>>> in the case that this is a stupid question... I am sorry but can you tell me how I can see that the optical unit is missing? >>>> There are no pics of an open 5061A device... >>>> I am also wondering why this seller is shipping these units for this extraordinary price. >>>> He is telling in the description that the shipping costs will be calculated at the real destination but I will bet that the click >>>> on the buy it now button bounds you to pay the whole sum ... >>>> -- >>>> >>>> with best Regards >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> Am 03.02.2019 um 18:21 schrieb cdelect@juno.com: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Wanted to warn about the 5065A that has now sold twice on eBay. (Jan 18 >>>>> and Feb 2) When it first listed I contacted the seller and told him the >>>>> optical unit was missing (A12) and he should not call it "fully >>>>> functional" Anyway he sold it for his asking price and now it looks like >>>>> he just sold it again. If he has it returned and lists it again just be >>>>> aware its not all there! Not really worth the price with no A12! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Corby >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>> and follow the instructions there. >

Hi There are a number of GPSDO’s on the market. For less than the price of a working 5071, you can probably buy a couple dozen of them. In terms of long term accuracy, a GPSDO will beat a Cs. Most of them (but not all of them) will do as well as a “standard tube” based Cs at short(er) tau’s. Compared to a system locked to an LF signal, a modern GPSDO is *way* better. Downsides include the need to mount an antenna with a good sky view. Keeping them on power all the time may or may not be a downside. You can indeed build one up and do it that way. When a “pre built / tested / working” device is as cheap as they are, there is not a big need to do that. Bob > On Feb 3, 2019, at 7:04 PM, Christoph Kopetzky <ck@cksd.de> wrote: > > Hi Bob and time-nuts, > > thank you for your infos. It seems not to be an easy job to get a used cesium clock in a good shape > with some reserve for a good few years of lamp live and an adaquate price. > The ones on the market are either for parts or like the both examples at ...bay fakes which costs > a lot of money and the not so experienced users are getting into a bigger lot of problems... > > The other crux with this clocks is oviously that they need to let them running all the time for reaching > the better stability and exactness what the should have as as a reference in the lab. > > Bob your pricing info for an exchange of the cesium tube seems to be not the right direction for the hobby > electronics user like me. I think it is a good idea not to buy such a clock at the moment. > > But the problem of mine and my be a lot of electronic developer and scientists is that they cannot have their > reference systems running all the time. It must be possible to build a reference which does not need weeks > to reach its best exactness and stability within hours... > > Is there a known solution available which allows good short time stability and also exactness which will be reached > within a maximum of one hour after power on? > > My thoughts are going into the world of the well known GPSDOs with a good OCXO inside and a precise Timing GPS receiver > module like UBlox NEO-M8P or a Furuno GT-87xx, a high precision roof antenna with a good view of the sky, and one of > the best rubidium oscillators such a SRS PRS10... > This combination must do the trick. It should be not to hard to feed the pps signal from the GPS receiver into the PRS10. > I read that the developer from SRS implemented the regulation software loop for that into the firmware of the Rubidium > oscillator. With saving the states of the gps and the rubidium in two separate real time clocks (battery buffered) and a > few lines of software for the microcontroller to arrange all with a display must be enough. > > I would be lucky if you guys could give me some tips about that or alternatives to get such a stable reference with a short > avalability timeframe for locking and stabilisating. > > Are there may be ready useable open hardware sources available? > > Thank you guys in advance for all your help... > > -- > with best Regards > > Chris > > Am 03.02.2019 um 23:34 schrieb Bob kb8tq: >> Hi >> >> The gotcha with a Cs is the tubes wear out. Last time I put a tube in a 5071 it cost just >> about $40,000 including custom shipping of the “hazardous” Cs. From the description >> on that uint it does not *appear* that things are working correctly. >> >> Even if you do get a working Cs standard, the question is - how much longer will the >> tube last? It might be good for another 10 years. It might die tomorrow. That tends to be >> a bit of a concern as far as running them all the time in a basement lab. >> >> With the high performance tubes in the 5071, my experience was that 6 to 7 years of >> continuous use was about it. The “standard” tubes in the 5071 should be good for > 2X that >> time period. >> >> None of this is to say that the *only* reason one fails is the tube. It is not at all uncommon >> to have other stuff fail. Usually the small stuff gets fixed and they go back into service. >> When the tubes go (or the problem is complicated) the go on the market….. >> >> Indeed none of this is to say you *can’t* get a working Cs. You most certainly can. This >> list is one pretty good place to find a working one from somebody who *knows* that it is >> running properly. I’m not selling any of mine, but you may see emails from people who are. >> >> Of course it there *was* a really good deal on a 5071 … hmmm …. maybe I need another Cs …. :) >> >> Bob >> >>> On Feb 3, 2019, at 5:16 PM, Christoph Kopetzky <ck@cksd.de> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Bob, >>> thank you. >>> Wow I did not realize that. Very interesting :) >>> B.t.w. there is a HP 5071A on ...bay item nr 263497171568. Is this cesium clock ok for buying? >>> >>> -- >>> with best Regards >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Am 03.02.2019 um 21:29 schrieb Bob kb8tq: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> The key is the top view of the 5065a. You can see through the holes in the top of the unit. >>>> There’s a big empty space to the right in the picture where the optical unit / physics package >>>> should be. There also are a few other tidbits missing but the physics package is the biggie. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Feb 3, 2019, at 2:30 PM, Christoph Kopetzky <ck@cksd.de> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello Corby, >>>>> in the case that this is a stupid question... I am sorry but can you tell me how I can see that the optical unit is missing? >>>>> There are no pics of an open 5061A device... >>>>> I am also wondering why this seller is shipping these units for this extraordinary price. >>>>> He is telling in the description that the shipping costs will be calculated at the real destination but I will bet that the click >>>>> on the buy it now button bounds you to pay the whole sum ... >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> with best Regards >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> Am 03.02.2019 um 18:21 schrieb cdelect@juno.com: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Wanted to warn about the 5065A that has now sold twice on eBay. (Jan 18 >>>>>> and Feb 2) When it first listed I contacted the seller and told him the >>>>>> optical unit was missing (A12) and he should not call it "fully >>>>>> functional" Anyway he sold it for his asking price and now it looks like >>>>>> he just sold it again. If he has it returned and lists it again just be >>>>>> aware its not all there! Not really worth the price with no A12! >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Corby >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >> >