Re: [time-nuts] OCXO and fluctuations after EFC adjustment
richard@karlquist.com said:
At this time, I will give my usual speech about IMHO the fact that since the
invention of the DDS on a chip, EFC should no longer be used for high
performance oscillators.
That caught my attention. Could you please say more.
A DDS introduces spurs. They move around as you change the adjustment
parameters.
Are the spurs small enough that they are not a problem with most applications?
What applications do/don't get along with spurs?
What do spurs look like on an ADEV plot?
I think of a "DDS on a chip" as having a VCO/PLL up to some fairly high
frequency and some digital logic that brings that down to the target
frequency. The high frequency means that the time step from N to N+1 cycles
is smaller. But VCOs are noisy relative to a good crystal. So in addition to
spurs, I'd expect more phase noise.
Am I on the right track? What should I have asked?
--
These are my opinions. I hate spam.
Hi
Spurs on an ADEV plot look like ripples in the curve. If you have a part
with good close in phase noise / good short tau ADEV, you probably
can see effects from spurs that 120 db down in the vicinity of 10 Hz.
Bob
On Apr 11, 2020, at 4:22 PM, Hal Murray hmurray@megapathdsl.net wrote:
richard@karlquist.com said:
At this time, I will give my usual speech about IMHO the fact that since the
invention of the DDS on a chip, EFC should no longer be used for high
performance oscillators.
That caught my attention. Could you please say more.
A DDS introduces spurs. They move around as you change the adjustment
parameters.
Are the spurs small enough that they are not a problem with most applications?
What applications do/don't get along with spurs?
What do spurs look like on an ADEV plot?
I think of a "DDS on a chip" as having a VCO/PLL up to some fairly high
frequency and some digital logic that brings that down to the target
frequency. The high frequency means that the time step from N to N+1 cycles
is smaller. But VCOs are noisy relative to a good crystal. So in addition to
spurs, I'd expect more phase noise.
Am I on the right track? What should I have asked?
--
These are my opinions. I hate spam.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
That caught my attention. Could you please say more.
A DDS introduces spurs. They move around as you change the adjustment
parameters.
Are the spurs small enough that they are not a problem with most applications?
What applications do/don't get along with spurs?
What do spurs look like on an ADEV plot?
I think of a "DDS on a chip" as having a VCO/PLL up to some fairly high
frequency and some digital logic that brings that down to the target
frequency. The high frequency means that the time step from N to N+1 cycles
is smaller. But VCOs are noisy relative to a good crystal. So in addition to
spurs, I'd expect more phase noise.
Am I on the right track? What should I have asked?
The last part of your post is way off track. The first "D" in DDS
stands for direct. PLL's are INdirect. An architecture I
frequently see and do not recommend is to try to "clean up" a
DDS by using it to phase lock a VCXO. As you say, the VCXO, etc
adds noise. And it doesn't clean up close in spurs within
the loop bandwidth.
I presented a paper at FCS in 1995 or 1996 about combining
a DDS with a "direct synthesizer" derived from the famous
HP5100 architecture. This multi stage system reduces DDS spurs
by 20 dB or so per stage.
The 5071A has a DDS designed from scratch by the brilliant
physicist Robin Giffard that produced a very clean spectrum.
He went beyond the commercial DDS's.
Keysight sells a very high end Arbitrary Waveform Generator
that is essentially a DDS that goes up to 5 or 10 GHz. It
is all on one custom chip. When I retired, they were still
planning to add an 8 GHz whispering gallery oscillator as
a time base. BTW, that oscillator did have EFC so it could
be locked to a 10 MHz reference. However, the way it worked
was that they changed the temperature of the resonator oven.
So it doesn't break my "rule".
Rick