Optical 10 MHz source information
List,
I see that there are now two providers of optical 10 MHz souces.
I would appreciate it if someone could give a "laymans" report on cost, MTBF, how they verify there calibration as well as if they will suppliment Cs, H-masers, etc.
TIA
Perry KM6FQV
Perry,
Just to be clear, what do you mean "optical 10 MHz sources"?
Do you talk about optical clocks?
Do you talk about optical cesiums?
Do you talk about cold rubidiums?
Do you talk about optical 10 MHz distributions?
For any new clocks, there isn't much previous experience by independent
users to verify claims of vendors. Everyone asks for it.
I know of only one optical cesium being commercially available. I know
of only two sources of cold rubidiums (laser-cooled) and only one of
them is barely commercially available at the moment.
I know that some stable optical sources producing synthesized outputs,
but not really being an commercial optical clock in the context of
optical reference, I have yet to see something which is turn-key-ready
on commercial basis. If you claimed to have seen that, I think you
should name it explicitly by name so we can discuss those.
For the moment I think the cold rubidiums is the most interesting
technique just becoming available, but yet have to become tried and
tested to be used in continuous operations.
I have only seen projects for optical clocks that aim to tend towards
commercial available and high availability, but I have yet to see it
actually being commercially available and deployed.
As for optical distribution systems, which is a very different ball-park
and does not really quantify as source.
Cheers,
Magnus
On 2024-01-22 23:58, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote:
List,
I see that there are now two providers of optical 10 MHz souces.
I would appreciate it if someone could give a "laymans" report on cost, MTBF, how they verify there calibration as well as if they will suppliment Cs, H-masers, etc.
TIA
Perry KM6FQV
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Hi
Until real world examples exist of multiple designs and they have been in the field for a few years …. who knows. At this point even simple stuff like projected cost and MTBF isn’t out in the public domain.
Like it or not, cost very much does matter in terms of widespread adoption of anything like this. Can they get below $50K a unit? Are they now above $500K a unit? We can only guess.
Is there a (small) market for “the best” at any cost? Sure there is. Is that what these guys are focused on? I’d bet it is. NIST buys two a year, NRL buys 2 a year, PTB buys 5 a year :) , a dozen other “somebodies” each buy 1 or 2 a year …. If they sell for > $500K each, you have a > $5M a year market.
Bob
On Jan 22, 2024, at 5:58 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
List,
I see that there are now two providers of optical 10 MHz souces.
I would appreciate it if someone could give a "laymans" report on cost, MTBF, how they verify there calibration as well as if they will suppliment Cs, H-masers, etc.
TIA
Perry KM6FQV
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As in "10 MHz reference provided on fiber" or "10 MHz reference derived from some optical source"?
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 22:58:52 +0000 (UTC), Perry Sandeen via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:
List,
I see that there are now two providers of optical 10 MHz souces.
I would appreciate it if someone could give a "laymans" report on cost, MTBF, how they verify there calibration as well as if they will suppliment Cs, H-masers, etc.
TIA
Perry KM6FQV
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Hi Perry,
I can provide some details here - I am working on one of the optical clocks with 10 MHz output you might be referencing. I'm now aware of three optical clock products - Infleqtion, Vector Atomic, and the Danish Metrology Institute (unsure if it has a 10MHz, but it probably has at least a 100 MHz from the comb that can be easily divided). Performance is at or near active hydrogen masers for all of these clocks, and flicker floors are falling in the 10^-15's for them.
All three are being reported as costing between $200k and $300k. They're all too new to really have a clear MTBF, but the lasers are likely the first parts to have lifetime issues. 10 year MTBF wouldn't be absurd for these systems, and the laser subsystem can usually be swapped out if something does go wrong.
I'm not sure how the other groups are verifying calibration, but we are using a variety of in-house measurement capabilities, bringing units to NIST for testing, etc.
I'd be glad to setup a call if you want to know more details that I shouldn't share on such an open forum.
Judith
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Subject: [time-nuts] Optical 10 MHz source information
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List,
I see that there are now two providers of optical 10 MHz souces.
I would appreciate it if someone could give a "laymans" report on cost, MTBF, how they verify there calibration as well as if they will suppliment Cs, H-masers, etc.
TIA
Perry KM6FQV
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