Empathy List Archives

MA

Mark Amos

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 9:50 PM

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from?

Mark

Time-nuts I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a 1PPS signal from my GPSDO. I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own? Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from? Mark

J

jmfranke

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 9:57 PM

I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are
solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in schools and
factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps.

See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html

I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and hours and a
two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the 1PPS
output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM.

John WA4WDL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Amos" mark.amos@toast.net
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:50 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started
with a desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has
blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock
face and hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where
I might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design
that I could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to
work from?

Mark

time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in schools and factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps. See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and hours and a two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the 1PPS output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM. John WA4WDL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Amos" <mark.amos@toast.net> To: <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request > Time-nuts > > I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started > with a desire for an accurate master > oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has > blossomed into a much broader interest > in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) > > This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock > face and hands as an output device for a > 1PPS signal from my GPSDO. > > I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where > I might start hacking (or making) a > mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design > that I could start with to build my own? > Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to > work from? > > Mark > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >

TV

Tom Van Baak (mobile)

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 10:12 PM

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from?

Mark

This is one reason the older model HP 5065A and 5061A
with Patek analog clocks are so desirable; they pre-date
LED, LCD, or VFD clock displays.

But one easy way to do it today is start with a $5 standard
quartz clock display. 1) Either run a precise synthesized
32 kHz signal into it (replacing the xtal), or drive the little
bipolar stepper yourself.

A 50 millisecond +1.5 VDC pulse is all you need; next
second give it a -1.5 VDC pulse, etc. This is a few lines
of code for a microcontroller. I've got pictures of this
somewhere on my web site, I think.

See also Bryan's cool stuff at:
http://www.bmumford.com/clocks/emindex.html

Some of us have driven traditional pendulum clocks with
GPS or atomic 1PPS. Another cute one is to take an
old Western Union, US Naval Observatory, SWCC
(Self-winding Clock Company) clocks and sync them
using a GPS-divided 1PPH (one pulse per hour) pulse.

See Mitchell's SWCC page at:
http://www.telechron.com/

Also, here's what "USNO time" meant in the 1930's...
http://www.leapsecond.com/history/usno.htm

/tvb

> Time-nuts > > I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master > oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest > in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) > > This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a > 1PPS signal from my GPSDO. > > I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a > mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own? > Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from? > > Mark This is one reason the older model HP 5065A and 5061A with Patek analog clocks are so desirable; they pre-date LED, LCD, or VFD clock displays. But one easy way to do it today is start with a $5 standard quartz clock display. 1) Either run a precise synthesized 32 kHz signal into it (replacing the xtal), or drive the little bipolar stepper yourself. A 50 millisecond +1.5 VDC pulse is all you need; next second give it a -1.5 VDC pulse, etc. This is a few lines of code for a microcontroller. I've got pictures of this somewhere on my web site, I think. See also Bryan's cool stuff at: http://www.bmumford.com/clocks/emindex.html Some of us have driven traditional pendulum clocks with GPS or atomic 1PPS. Another cute one is to take an old Western Union, US Naval Observatory, SWCC (Self-winding Clock Company) clocks and sync them using a GPS-divided 1PPH (one pulse per hour) pulse. See Mitchell's SWCC page at: http://www.telechron.com/ Also, here's what "USNO time" meant in the 1930's... http://www.leapsecond.com/history/usno.htm /tvb

BC

Brooke Clarke

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 10:22 PM

Hi Mark:

There may be some other approaches.
Start from an electric clock that's battery powered and replace all the
driving electronics and just drive the coil directly with the proper
pulse rate.
Start from an electric clock and replace just the crystal with a 32768
kHz signal.
In the above cases I think you can find clocks with second hands.

I've been thinking that it should be possible us use synchro motors (3
phase drive) to allow smooth movement of the hands and also to have
continuous 360 degree rotation unlike model RC servo motors that don't
have 360 degree rotation.

I'm still working on packaging my Precision Clock, see:
http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml#PC3

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke

w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com

Mark Amos wrote:

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from?

Mark

Hi Mark: There may be some other approaches. Start from an electric clock that's battery powered and replace all the driving electronics and just drive the coil directly with the proper pulse rate. Start from an electric clock and replace just the crystal with a 32768 kHz signal. In the above cases I think you can find clocks with second hands. I've been thinking that it should be possible us use synchro motors (3 phase drive) to allow smooth movement of the hands and also to have continuous 360 degree rotation unlike model RC servo motors that don't have 360 degree rotation. I'm still working on packaging my Precision Clock, see: http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml#PC3 Have Fun, Brooke Clarke w/Java http://www.PRC68.com w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml http://www.precisionclock.com Mark Amos wrote: >Time-nuts > >I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master >oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest >in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) > >This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a >1PPS signal from my GPSDO. > >I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a >mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own? >Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from? > >Mark > > >

DF

David Forbes

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 10:26 PM

Tom Van Baak (mobile) wrote:

But one easy way to do it today is start with a $5 standard
quartz clock display. 1) Either run a precise synthesized
32 kHz signal into it (replacing the xtal), or drive the little
bipolar stepper yourself.

A 50 millisecond +1.5 VDC pulse is all you need; next
second give it a -1.5 VDC pulse, etc. This is a few lines
of code for a microcontroller. I've got pictures of this
somewhere on my web site, I think.

Tom,

With all due respect to your love of software, a microcontroller is a
bit of overkill for this application.

Use a 74HC74 D flip-flop connected as a divide-by-two toggle register:
connect Q-not to the D input and feed the 1PPS into the C input; connect
S and R to +5V.

The drive pulse to the coil is generated very simply with a capacitor
(~0.1 uf?) in series with the clock solenoid. This will produce a
positive pulse when the flip-flop flips and a negative pulse when it flops.

You don't need to worry about the 1.5V coil voltage rating - the
capacitor will absorb the blow. I'd start out with a smaller capacitor
(.001uf maybe) and increase it until it pulses reliably, then select
perhaps twice that capacitance for reliability.

Tom Van Baak (mobile) wrote: > > But one easy way to do it today is start with a $5 standard > quartz clock display. 1) Either run a precise synthesized > 32 kHz signal into it (replacing the xtal), or drive the little > bipolar stepper yourself. > > A 50 millisecond +1.5 VDC pulse is all you need; next > second give it a -1.5 VDC pulse, etc. This is a few lines > of code for a microcontroller. I've got pictures of this > somewhere on my web site, I think. > Tom, With all due respect to your love of software, a microcontroller is a bit of overkill for this application. Use a 74HC74 D flip-flop connected as a divide-by-two toggle register: connect Q-not to the D input and feed the 1PPS into the C input; connect S and R to +5V. The drive pulse to the coil is generated very simply with a capacitor (~0.1 uf?) in series with the clock solenoid. This will produce a positive pulse when the flip-flop flips and a negative pulse when it flops. You don't need to worry about the 1.5V coil voltage rating - the capacitor will absorb the blow. I'd start out with a smaller capacitor (.001uf maybe) and increase it until it pulses reliably, then select perhaps twice that capacitance for reliability.

S

shoppa@trailing-edge.com

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 10:30 PM

"Mark Amos" mark.amos@toast.net wrote:

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

Mine is obviously inherited. Mixed in among all the pictures of me
as a baby are pictures of hundreds of pocketwatches (mostly railroad
watches) that my dad collected :-).

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

Quartz clock movements with a second hand do exactly what you want. Deliver
1PPS and the second hand goes forward a tick a second.

Multiply up to 60Hz and drive a traditional 60Hz AC clock (TVB or
someone else illustrates
this with test equipment supplies driven from atomic clocks,
but this is, let's just say, overkill, but what isn't? :-) )

There are Bulova and other brands of instrumentation clocks that
are driven at more than 1PPS for smoother second hand movement.
Some of this shows up in the surplus stream. Most used Tuning forks
for the original frequency standard.

There are various synchronized clock movements out there that
show up on the surplus market but they usually have once-per-hour
and once-per-day sync pulses, not once-per-second.

Tim.

"Mark Amos" <mark.amos@toast.net> wrote: > I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master > oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest > in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) Mine is obviously inherited. Mixed in among all the pictures of me as a baby are pictures of hundreds of pocketwatches (mostly railroad watches) that my dad collected :-). > This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a > 1PPS signal from my GPSDO. Quartz clock movements with a second hand do exactly what you want. Deliver 1PPS and the second hand goes forward a tick a second. Multiply up to 60Hz and drive a traditional 60Hz AC clock (TVB or someone else illustrates this with test equipment supplies driven from atomic clocks, but this is, let's just say, overkill, but what isn't? :-) ) There are Bulova and other brands of instrumentation clocks that are driven at more than 1PPS for smoother second hand movement. Some of this shows up in the surplus stream. Most used Tuning forks for the original frequency standard. There are various synchronized clock movements out there that show up on the surplus market but they usually have once-per-hour and once-per-day sync pulses, not once-per-second. Tim.

JH

Jack Hudler

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 10:35 PM

There are some clocks like the ones in schools that use a 1PPS, 1PPM or faster.

On eBay
230081995247 nice
110082857347 neat!!
250076726064
110081232209
180076563718

This guy is selling a master simulator 200071362893

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Amos
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:51 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a
desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has
blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and
hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I
might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I
could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work
from?

Mark

time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

There are some clocks like the ones in schools that use a 1PPS, 1PPM or faster. On eBay 230081995247 nice 110082857347 neat!! 250076726064 110081232209 180076563718 This guy is selling a master simulator 200071362893 -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Amos Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:51 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request Time-nuts I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a 1PPS signal from my GPSDO. I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own? Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from? Mark _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

BJ

Bill Janssen

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 11:07 PM

Mark Amos wrote:

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from?

Mark

Battery powered clocks are available in hobby shops especially those
that cater to woodworkers. They have a wide selection
of hands for every application. You would have to hack the electric part
but I think that is do-able.

Bill K7NOM

Mark Amos wrote: > Time-nuts > > I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a desire for an accurate master > oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has blossomed into a much broader interest > in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) > > This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a > 1PPS signal from my GPSDO. > > I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a > mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own? > Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from? > > Mark > Battery powered clocks are available in hobby shops especially those that cater to woodworkers. They have a wide selection of hands for every application. You would have to hack the electric part but I think that is do-able. Bill K7NOM

DB

Dave Brown

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 11:07 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: "jmfranke" jmfranke@cox.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are
solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in
schools and
factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps.

See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html

I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and
hours and a
two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the
1PPS
output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM.

John WA4WDL

Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the
particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a
Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it was
considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer darkness'!
Personally I think it's rather elegant, but......
Picture here-
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif
These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3
foot pendulum) model.
DaveB, NZ

----- Original Message ----- From: "jmfranke" <jmfranke@cox.net> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request >I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are > solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in > schools and > factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps. > > See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html > > I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and > hours and a > two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the > 1PPS > output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM. > > John WA4WDL Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it was considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer darkness'! Personally I think it's rather elegant, but...... Picture here- http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3 foot pendulum) model. DaveB, NZ

JH

Jack Hudler

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 11:09 PM

It is elegant! Was that the XYL's opinion?

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf
Of Dave Brown
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:07 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

----- Original Message -----
From: "jmfranke" jmfranke@cox.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are
solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in
schools and
factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps.

See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html

I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and
hours and a
two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the
1PPS
output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM.

John WA4WDL

Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the
particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a
Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it was
considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer darkness'!
Personally I think it's rather elegant, but......
Picture here-
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif
These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3
foot pendulum) model.
DaveB, NZ

time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

It is elegant! Was that the XYL's opinion? -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dave Brown Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:07 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request ----- Original Message ----- From: "jmfranke" <jmfranke@cox.net> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request >I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are > solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in > schools and > factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps. > > See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html > > I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and > hours and a > two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the > 1PPS > output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM. > > John WA4WDL Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it was considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer darkness'! Personally I think it's rather elegant, but...... Picture here- http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3 foot pendulum) model. DaveB, NZ _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

J

jmfranke

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 11:13 PM

Yes, I have heard of 30 movements, but the ones I am working with have a
sixty step racket and are designed for onece per minute stepping. That is
an awesome clock!

John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Brown" tractorb@ihug.co.nz
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

----- Original Message -----
From: "jmfranke" jmfranke@cox.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are
solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in
schools and
factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps.

See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html

I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and
hours and a
two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the
1PPS
output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM.

John WA4WDL

Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the
particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a
Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it was
considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer darkness'!
Personally I think it's rather elegant, but......
Picture here-
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif
These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3
foot pendulum) model.
DaveB, NZ

time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Yes, I have heard of 30 movements, but the ones I am working with have a sixty step racket and are designed for onece per minute stepping. That is an awesome clock! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Brown" <tractorb@ihug.co.nz> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jmfranke" <jmfranke@cox.net> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > > >>I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are >> solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in >> schools and >> factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps. >> >> See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html >> >> I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and >> hours and a >> two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the >> 1PPS >> output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM. >> >> John WA4WDL > > > Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the > particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a > Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it was > considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer darkness'! > Personally I think it's rather elegant, but...... > Picture here- > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif > These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3 > foot pendulum) model. > DaveB, NZ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >

DB

Dave Brown

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 11:27 PM

Yes- XYL, SWMBO, whatever!!!
But she does like my Telechron 8B01-like this one
http://uv201.com/Clock_Pages/Telechron/telechron_minitmaster.htm
which some 'twas say the original digital clock. The 50Hz motor in
mine needs replacing-considering a stepper motor driven from GPS-but
that's another story.

DaveB, NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Hudler" jack@hudler.org
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

It is elegant! Was that the XYL's opinion?

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf
Of Dave Brown
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:07 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

----- Original Message -----
From: "jmfranke" jmfranke@cox.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are
solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in
schools and
factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps.

See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html

I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and
hours and a
two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the
1PPS
output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM.

John WA4WDL

Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the
particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a
Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it
was
considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer
darkness'!
Personally I think it's rather elegant, but......
Picture here-
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif
These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3
foot pendulum) model.
DaveB, NZ

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24/01/2007 18:48

Yes- XYL, SWMBO, whatever!!! But she does like my Telechron 8B01-like this one http://uv201.com/Clock_Pages/Telechron/telechron_minitmaster.htm which some 'twas say the original digital clock. The 50Hz motor in mine needs replacing-considering a stepper motor driven from GPS-but that's another story. DaveB, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Hudler" <jack@hudler.org> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > It is elegant! Was that the XYL's opinion? > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] > On Behalf > Of Dave Brown > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:07 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jmfranke" <jmfranke@cox.net> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > > >>I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are >> solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in >> schools and >> factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps. >> >> See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html >> >> I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and >> hours and a >> two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the >> 1PPS >> output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM. >> >> John WA4WDL > > > Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the > particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a > Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it > was > considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer > darkness'! > Personally I think it's rather elegant, but...... > Picture here- > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif > These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3 > foot pendulum) model. > DaveB, NZ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.10/651 - Release Date: > 24/01/2007 18:48 >

JH

Jack Hudler

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 11:28 PM

Well well there's hope for her yet :)

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf
Of Dave Brown
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:28 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

Yes- XYL, SWMBO, whatever!!!
But she does like my Telechron 8B01-like this one
http://uv201.com/Clock_Pages/Telechron/telechron_minitmaster.htm
which some 'twas say the original digital clock. The 50Hz motor in
mine needs replacing-considering a stepper motor driven from GPS-but
that's another story.

DaveB, NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Hudler" jack@hudler.org
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

It is elegant! Was that the XYL's opinion?

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com]
On Behalf
Of Dave Brown
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:07 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

----- Original Message -----
From: "jmfranke" jmfranke@cox.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are
solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in
schools and
factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps.

See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html

I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and
hours and a
two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the
1PPS
output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM.

John WA4WDL

Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the
particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a
Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it
was
considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer
darkness'!
Personally I think it's rather elegant, but......
Picture here-
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif
These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3
foot pendulum) model.
DaveB, NZ

time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.10/651 - Release Date:
24/01/2007 18:48

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Well well there's hope for her yet :) -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dave Brown Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:28 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request Yes- XYL, SWMBO, whatever!!! But she does like my Telechron 8B01-like this one http://uv201.com/Clock_Pages/Telechron/telechron_minitmaster.htm which some 'twas say the original digital clock. The 50Hz motor in mine needs replacing-considering a stepper motor driven from GPS-but that's another story. DaveB, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Hudler" <jack@hudler.org> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > It is elegant! Was that the XYL's opinion? > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] > On Behalf > Of Dave Brown > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:07 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jmfranke" <jmfranke@cox.net> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > > >>I am going the same route and have discovered slave clocks which are >> solenoid driven clocks. The clocks were once very popular in >> schools and >> factories. The hands typically step in one minute steps. >> >> See: http://www.clockhistory.com/setclocks/index.html >> >> I plan to use one of the clock movements to display minutes and >> hours and a >> two digit LED digital display for the seconds. I will divide the >> 1PPS >> output from a Z3801A by 60 to get 1PPM. >> >> John WA4WDL > > > Some used a 30 second pulse as well - might pay to check the > particular slave you have before you make the divider! I have a > Gents master clock here- I DID want to put it in the lounge but it > was > considerd too 'industrial' so its been relegated to 'outer > darkness'! > Personally I think it's rather elegant, but...... > Picture here- > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/gents%20master.gif > These were made in two pendulum lengths-this is the longer case (3 > foot pendulum) model. > DaveB, NZ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.10/651 - Release Date: > 24/01/2007 18:48 > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

JG

Joseph Gray

Thu, Jan 25, 2007 11:41 PM

Oh, that would look so nice, next to some of my tube radios!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Brown" tractorb@ihug.co.nz
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

Yes- XYL, SWMBO, whatever!!!
But she does like my Telechron 8B01-like this one
http://uv201.com/Clock_Pages/Telechron/telechron_minitmaster.htm
which some 'twas say the original digital clock. The 50Hz motor in
mine needs replacing-considering a stepper motor driven from GPS-but
that's another story.

DaveB, NZ

Oh, that would look so nice, next to some of my tube radios! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Brown" <tractorb@ihug.co.nz> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request > Yes- XYL, SWMBO, whatever!!! > But she does like my Telechron 8B01-like this one > http://uv201.com/Clock_Pages/Telechron/telechron_minitmaster.htm > which some 'twas say the original digital clock. The 50Hz motor in > mine needs replacing-considering a stepper motor driven from GPS-but > that's another story. > > DaveB, NZ

T

tom

Fri, Jan 26, 2007 12:40 AM

mark,
look at a cheap kitchen clock that runs on a battery and uses a 1pps to
move the second hand which moves gears for the rest.
tom w0kgw

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Amos" mark.amos@toast.net
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started
with a desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has
blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock
face and hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where
I might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design
that I could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to
work from?

Mark

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mark, look at a cheap kitchen clock that runs on a battery and uses a 1pps to move the second hand which moves gears for the rest. tom w0kgw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Amos" <mark.amos@toast.net> To: <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:50 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request > Time-nuts > > I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started > with a desire for an accurate master > oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has > blossomed into a much broader interest > in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) > > This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock > face and hands as an output device for a > 1PPS signal from my GPSDO. > > I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where > I might start hacking (or making) a > mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design > that I could start with to build my own? > Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to > work from? > > Mark > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >

BC

Brooke Clarke

Fri, Jan 26, 2007 2:59 AM

Hi Jack:

OK, so now I've won the Edwards school clock eBay item number 110081232209
I choose it because of the second hand.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110081232209

But how how to connect it?

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke

w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com

Jack Hudler wrote:

There are some clocks like the ones in schools that use a 1PPS, 1PPM or faster.

On eBay
230081995247 nice
110082857347 neat!!
250076726064
110081232209
180076563718

This guy is selling a master simulator 200071362893

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Amos
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:51 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a
desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has
blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and
hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I
might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I
could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work
from?

Mark

time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Hi Jack: OK, so now I've won the Edwards school clock eBay item number 110081232209 I choose it because of the second hand. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110081232209 But how how to connect it? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke w/Java http://www.PRC68.com w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml http://www.precisionclock.com Jack Hudler wrote: >There are some clocks like the ones in schools that use a 1PPS, 1PPM or faster. > >On eBay >230081995247 nice >110082857347 neat!! >250076726064 >110081232209 >180076563718 > >This guy is selling a master simulator 200071362893 > >-----Original Message----- >From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf >Of Mark Amos >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:51 PM >To: time-nuts@febo.com >Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request > >Time-nuts > >I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a >desire for an accurate master >oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has >blossomed into a much broader interest >in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) > >This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and >hands as an output device for a >1PPS signal from my GPSDO. > >I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I >might start hacking (or making) a >mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I >could start with to build my own? >Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work >from? > >Mark > > > > >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list >time-nuts@febo.com >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list >time-nuts@febo.com >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >

NJ

Neon John

Fri, Jan 26, 2007 4:34 AM

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:50:46 -0500, "Mark Amos" mark.amos@toast.net
wrote:

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from?

Finally something I can contribute.

Any el-cheapo quartz clock movement should work with a little mod.
I've disassembled several brands and they all appear to be the same on
the inside. A chip-on-board does the logic and a 2 coil stepping
motor drives the second hand. The minute and hour hands are driven
through conventional geartrains. The stepper has two coils and the
rotor turns 90 deg with each step. All you need is a little logic to
take the one PPS and turn it into stepper commands. Anything from a
PLA to a PIC should do.

If you didn't want to mod the clock you could build a 32khz oscillator
phase locked to the one PPS signal and feed this in place of the
tuning fork crystal. Hard to say which would be simpler but probably
modding the clock to drive the stepper directly.

John

John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:50:46 -0500, "Mark Amos" <mark.amos@toast.net> wrote: >This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and hands as an output device for a >1PPS signal from my GPSDO. > >I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I might start hacking (or making) a >mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I could start with to build my own? >Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work from? Finally something I can contribute. Any el-cheapo quartz clock movement should work with a little mod. I've disassembled several brands and they all appear to be the same on the inside. A chip-on-board does the logic and a 2 coil stepping motor drives the second hand. The minute and hour hands are driven through conventional geartrains. The stepper has two coils and the rotor turns 90 deg with each step. All you need is a little logic to take the one PPS and turn it into stepper commands. Anything from a PLA to a PIC should do. If you didn't want to mod the clock you could build a 32khz oscillator phase locked to the one PPS signal and feed this in place of the tuning fork crystal. Hard to say which would be simpler but probably modding the clock to drive the stepper directly. John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

NM

Normand Martel

Fri, Jan 26, 2007 4:37 AM

Hi Tom...

Not only Telechron were very popular electric clock
movements, they were BY FAR the very best mechanical
movements ever made.

When young, i've opened A LOT of used
electro-mechanical clock movements, and most of them
showed evident traces of wear. Worn-out gear pinions,
dried-out and seized brass/steel bushings, dried-out
and cracked nylon pinions (Nylon tends to harden and
shrink with time and heat, so Nylon parts shall NEVER
be put on a traction stress when manufactured) were
frequent on old clock movements, but NEVER on
Telechrons, except very
rare cases of pinion wear on the output shaft (3.6
RPM)

Telechron movements were very unique. The motors were
two-pole shaded pole synchronous motors with an
external solenoid and a completly sealed rotor
stuck within the poles pieces. The self-starting
rotor, composed of three spring steel disks forced in
place on a smooth shaft and spinning at 3600 RPM (60
Hz) was inside a sealed cylindrical aluminum gearbox
(older gearboxes were in a copper sealed box)
containing not only the rotor shaft, but also a 1000:1
reduction geartrain. Pinions were made of stacked thin
steel pinion disks forced on the shaft to form single
solid pinions. The faster rotating gears plates were
made of some kind of red-orange colored fiber material
and the slower rotating (higher torque) plates, of
soft brass. The gear holding plates were made of thick
alunimum with a thinner aluminum subplate that
prevented the gears from sliding longitudinally, but
far more important, the thin space between the plates
and subplates had a capital role: Keeping a fine
capillary oil film between the plate and subplate,
that film kept the gear shafts permanently lubricated,
thus eliminating all trace of wear. Even the gears
themselves (the rotor was spinning at 3600 RPM and the
second gear, at 864 RPM) didn't show any trace of
wear, even under a magnifying glass.

I even remember the gear ratios of a Telechron:

Rotor: 12 toothed pinion (3600 RPM)
Second gear: 50 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 12
tooth pinion R:r: 4.1666667:1
Third gear: 54 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 18
tooth pinion R:r: 4.5:1
Fourth gear: 60 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 12
tooth pinion R:r: 3.3333333:1
Fifth gear: 60 tooth brass plate coupled to a 12
tooth pinion R:r: 4:1
Output gear: 60 tooth brass plate coupled to an
external 10 tooth pinion R:r: 4:1

4.166674.53.33333344=1000

Definitely a fine movement! I still use an oooold
Telechron at my shop.

73 de Normand VE2UM

--- "Tom Van Baak (mobile)" tvb@LeapSecond.com
wrote:

See Mitchell's SWCC page at:
http://www.telechron.com/

/tvb

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Hi Tom... Not only Telechron were very popular electric clock movements, they were BY FAR the very best mechanical movements ever made. When young, i've opened A LOT of used electro-mechanical clock movements, and most of them showed evident traces of wear. Worn-out gear pinions, dried-out and seized brass/steel bushings, dried-out and cracked nylon pinions (Nylon tends to harden and shrink with time and heat, so Nylon parts shall NEVER be put on a traction stress when manufactured) were frequent on old clock movements, but NEVER on Telechrons, except very rare cases of pinion wear on the output shaft (3.6 RPM) Telechron movements were very unique. The motors were two-pole shaded pole synchronous motors with an external solenoid and a completly sealed rotor stuck within the poles pieces. The self-starting rotor, composed of three spring steel disks forced in place on a smooth shaft and spinning at 3600 RPM (60 Hz) was inside a sealed cylindrical aluminum gearbox (older gearboxes were in a copper sealed box) containing not only the rotor shaft, but also a 1000:1 reduction geartrain. Pinions were made of stacked thin steel pinion disks forced on the shaft to form single solid pinions. The faster rotating gears plates were made of some kind of red-orange colored fiber material and the slower rotating (higher torque) plates, of soft brass. The gear holding plates were made of thick alunimum with a thinner aluminum subplate that prevented the gears from sliding longitudinally, but far more important, the thin space between the plates and subplates had a capital role: Keeping a fine capillary oil film between the plate and subplate, that film kept the gear shafts permanently lubricated, thus eliminating all trace of wear. Even the gears themselves (the rotor was spinning at 3600 RPM and the second gear, at 864 RPM) didn't show any trace of wear, even under a magnifying glass. I even remember the gear ratios of a Telechron: Rotor: 12 toothed pinion (3600 RPM) Second gear: 50 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 12 tooth pinion R:r: 4.1666667:1 Third gear: 54 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 18 tooth pinion R:r: 4.5:1 Fourth gear: 60 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 12 tooth pinion R:r: 3.3333333:1 Fifth gear: 60 tooth brass plate coupled to a 12 tooth pinion R:r: 4:1 Output gear: 60 tooth brass plate coupled to an external 10 tooth pinion R:r: 4:1 4.16667*4.5*3.333333*4*4=1000 Definitely a fine movement! I still use an oooold Telechron at my shop. 73 de Normand VE2UM --- "Tom Van Baak (mobile)" <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote: > > See Mitchell's SWCC page at: > http://www.telechron.com/ > > /tvb > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091

DI

David I. Emery

Fri, Jan 26, 2007 5:04 AM

On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 08:37:27PM -0800, Normand Martel wrote:

Hi Tom...

Not only Telechron were very popular electric clock
movements, they were BY FAR the very best mechanical
movements ever made.

When young, i've opened A LOT of used
electro-mechanical clock movements, and most of them
showed evident traces of wear. Worn-out gear pinions,
dried-out and seized brass/steel bushings, dried-out
and cracked nylon pinions (Nylon tends to harden and
shrink with time and heat, so Nylon parts shall NEVER
be put on a traction stress when manufactured) were
frequent on old clock movements, but NEVER on
Telechrons, except very
rare cases of pinion wear on the output shaft (3.6
RPM)

Telechron movements were very unique. The motors were
two-pole shaded pole synchronous motors with an
external solenoid and a completly sealed rotor
stuck within the poles pieces. The self-starting
rotor, composed of three spring steel disks forced in
place on a smooth shaft and spinning at 3600 RPM (60
Hz) was inside a sealed cylindrical aluminum gearbox
(older gearboxes were in a copper sealed box)
containing not only the rotor shaft, but also a 1000:1
reduction geartrain. Pinions were made of stacked thin
steel pinion disks forced on the shaft to form single
solid pinions. The faster rotating gears plates were
made of some kind of red-orange colored fiber material
and the slower rotating (higher torque) plates, of
soft brass. The gear holding plates were made of thick
alunimum with a thinner aluminum subplate that
prevented the gears from sliding longitudinally, but
far more important, the thin space between the plates
and subplates had a capital role: Keeping a fine
capillary oil film between the plate and subplate,
that film kept the gear shafts permanently lubricated,
thus eliminating all trace of wear. Even the gears
themselves (the rotor was spinning at 3600 RPM and the
second gear, at 864 RPM) didn't show any trace of
wear, even under a magnifying glass.

I even remember the gear ratios of a Telechron:

Rotor: 12 toothed pinion (3600 RPM)
Second gear: 50 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 12
tooth pinion R:r: 4.1666667:1

�> Third gear: 54 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 18

tooth pinion R:r: 4.5:1
Fourth gear: 60 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 12
tooth pinion R:r: 3.3333333:1
Fifth gear: 60 tooth brass plate coupled to a 12
tooth pinion R:r: 4:1
Output gear: 60 tooth brass plate coupled to an
external 10 tooth pinion R:r: 4:1

4.166674.53.33333344=1000

Definitely a fine movement! I still use an oooold
Telechron at my shop.

73 de Normand VE2UM

--- "Tom Van Baak (mobile)" tvb@LeapSecond.com
wrote:

See Mitchell's SWCC page at:
http://www.telechron.com/

/tvb

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--
Dave Emery N1PRE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
�'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be no�
�

On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 08:37:27PM -0800, Normand Martel wrote: > Hi Tom... > > Not only Telechron were very popular electric clock > movements, they were BY FAR the very best mechanical > movements ever made. > > When young, i've opened A LOT of used > electro-mechanical clock movements, and most of them > showed evident traces of wear. Worn-out gear pinions, > dried-out and seized brass/steel bushings, dried-out > and cracked nylon pinions (Nylon tends to harden and > shrink with time and heat, so Nylon parts shall NEVER > be put on a traction stress when manufactured) were > frequent on old clock movements, but NEVER on > Telechrons, except very > rare cases of pinion wear on the output shaft (3.6 > RPM) > > Telechron movements were very unique. The motors were > two-pole shaded pole synchronous motors with an > external solenoid and a completly sealed rotor > stuck within the poles pieces. The self-starting > rotor, composed of three spring steel disks forced in > place on a smooth shaft and spinning at 3600 RPM (60 > Hz) was inside a sealed cylindrical aluminum gearbox > (older gearboxes were in a copper sealed box) > containing not only the rotor shaft, but also a 1000:1 > reduction geartrain. Pinions were made of stacked thin > steel pinion disks forced on the shaft to form single > solid pinions. The faster rotating gears plates were > made of some kind of red-orange colored fiber material > and the slower rotating (higher torque) plates, of > soft brass. The gear holding plates were made of thick > alunimum with a thinner aluminum subplate that > prevented the gears from sliding longitudinally, but > far more important, the thin space between the plates > and subplates had a capital role: Keeping a fine > capillary oil film between the plate and subplate, > that film kept the gear shafts permanently lubricated, > thus eliminating all trace of wear. Even the gears > themselves (the rotor was spinning at 3600 RPM and the > second gear, at 864 RPM) didn't show any trace of > wear, even under a magnifying glass. > > I even remember the gear ratios of a Telechron: > > Rotor: 12 toothed pinion (3600 RPM) > Second gear: 50 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 12 > tooth pinion R:r: 4.1666667:1 �> Third gear: 54 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 18 > tooth pinion R:r: 4.5:1 > Fourth gear: 60 tooth fiber plate coupled to a 12 > tooth pinion R:r: 3.3333333:1 > Fifth gear: 60 tooth brass plate coupled to a 12 > tooth pinion R:r: 4:1 > Output gear: 60 tooth brass plate coupled to an > external 10 tooth pinion R:r: 4:1 > > 4.16667*4.5*3.333333*4*4=1000 > > Definitely a fine movement! I still use an oooold > Telechron at my shop. > > 73 de Normand VE2UM > > --- "Tom Van Baak (mobile)" <tvb@LeapSecond.com> > wrote: > > > > > See Mitchell's SWCC page at: > > http://www.telechron.com/ > > > > /tvb > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list > > time-nuts@febo.com > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten �'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be no� �

JH

Jack Hudler

Fri, Jan 26, 2007 5:34 AM

Brooke,
Well I would guess that all depends on what you fine under that cover!
:)
It appears to be a 4 wire system which could mean you may find a run
motor and a correction coil. But I'm just guess'n. :)
Send pictures!

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf
Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:00 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

Hi Jack:

OK, so now I've won the Edwards school clock eBay item number 110081232209
I choose it because of the second hand.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110081232209

But how how to connect it?

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke

w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com

Jack Hudler wrote:

There are some clocks like the ones in schools that use a 1PPS, 1PPM or faster.

On eBay
230081995247 nice
110082857347 neat!!
250076726064
110081232209
180076563718

This guy is selling a master simulator 200071362893

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Amos
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:51 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request

Time-nuts

I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a
desire for an accurate master
oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has
blossomed into a much broader interest
in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)

This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and
hands as an output device for a
1PPS signal from my GPSDO.

I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I
might start hacking (or making) a
mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I
could start with to build my own?
Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work
from?

Mark

time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Brooke, Well I would guess that all depends on what you fine under that cover! :) It appears to be a 4 wire system which could mean you may find a run motor and a correction coil. But I'm just guess'n. :) Send pictures! Jack -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Odd request Hi Jack: OK, so now I've won the Edwards school clock eBay item number 110081232209 I choose it because of the second hand. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110081232209 But how how to connect it? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke w/Java http://www.PRC68.com w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml http://www.precisionclock.com Jack Hudler wrote: >There are some clocks like the ones in schools that use a 1PPS, 1PPM or faster. > >On eBay >230081995247 nice >110082857347 neat!! >250076726064 >110081232209 >180076563718 > >This guy is selling a master simulator 200071362893 > >-----Original Message----- >From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf >Of Mark Amos >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:51 PM >To: time-nuts@febo.com >Subject: [time-nuts] Odd request > >Time-nuts > >I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession. Mine started with a >desire for an accurate master >oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has >blossomed into a much broader interest >in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?) > >This has led me to a silly quest. I'd like to use a traditional clock face and >hands as an output device for a >1PPS signal from my GPSDO. > >I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I >might start hacking (or making) a >mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that I >could start with to build my own? >Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid? Any examples to work >from? > >Mark > > > > >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list >time-nuts@febo.com >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > > >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list >time-nuts@febo.com >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Odd request

John