Loran?
Some one gave me an old Loran receiver. It fires up, the keypad and
LCD display seem to work but status is always "Searching"
Questions:
- I think there are still Loran transmitters?
- What does a Loran antenna look like? A random length of wire
strung up in the attic is doing nothing.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Loran is gone from the US.
Chris Albertson wrote:
Some one gave me an old Loran receiver. It fires up, the keypad and
LCD display seem to work but status is always "Searching"
Questions:
- I think there are still Loran transmitters?
- What does a Loran antenna look like? A random length of wire
strung up in the attic is doing nothing.
On 12/19/2010 12:46 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Some one gave me an old Loran receiver. It fires up, the keypad and
LCD display seem to work but status is always "Searching"
Questions:
- I think there are still Loran transmitters?
- What does a Loran antenna look like? A random length of wire
strung up in the attic is doing nothing.
If you are in North America you are out of luck. You might pick up on
European LORAN-C transmitters.
So, locality first...
THEN we can advice you on what antenna needs you have... and then we
also needs to know what LORAN C receiver you have...
Cheers,
Magnus
A loop with preamp or an active antenna (whip with preamp). Any Loran you
receive will be DX as the US chains were turned off to pay for the tax cut :-)
Astrons need a external frequency standard to work does your receiver have a
model/Brand ?
Stanley
----- Original Message ----
From: Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 5:46:58 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Loran?
Some one gave me an old Loran receiver. It fires up, the keypad and
LCD display seem to work but status is always "Searching"
Questions:
- I think there are still Loran transmitters?
- What does a Loran antenna look like? A random length of wire
strung up in the attic is doing nothing.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
This is a marine navigation unit sold under "West Marine's" own brand
name. It looks modern and automated. Has functions on it like
"anchor drift alarm" Where you fix your location then set a radius
and if the unit moves outside the radius it beeps loudly. Just what
you'd want if your ship of dragging anchor. The unit is very small
and modern looking. It is controlled with a keypad and large LCD
screen. Zero analog knobs.
My guess is that this thing wants an active whip antenna of some kind.
There is an BNC on the back.
I don't think this is worth a lot of time, not if the transmitters are
gone. I thought I read they were going to continue for another 20
years.
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Magnus Danielson
magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 12:46 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Some one gave me an old Loran receiver. It fires up, the keypad and
LCD display seem to work but status is always "Searching"
Questions:
- I think there are still Loran transmitters?
- What does a Loran antenna look like? A random length of wire
strung up in the attic is doing nothing.
If you are in North America you are out of luck. You might pick up on
European LORAN-C transmitters.
So, locality first...
THEN we can advice you on what antenna needs you have... and then we also
needs to know what LORAN C receiver you have...
Cheers,
Magnus
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that used to
operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the 160 meter
ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't think there is a
version of it operating anywhere in the world.
Regards.
Max. K 4 O D S.
Email: max@maxsmusicplace.com
Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
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funwithtubes-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Magnus Danielson" magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
On 12/19/2010 12:46 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Some one gave me an old Loran receiver. It fires up, the keypad and
LCD display seem to work but status is always "Searching"
Questions:
- I think there are still Loran transmitters?
- What does a Loran antenna look like? A random length of wire
strung up in the attic is doing nothing.
If you are in North America you are out of luck. You might pick up on
European LORAN-C transmitters.
So, locality first...
THEN we can advice you on what antenna needs you have... and then we also
needs to know what LORAN C receiver you have...
Cheers,
Magnus
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
More precisely, LORAN-A as opposed to LORAN-C.
Bob
On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:49 PM, Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that used to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the 160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't think there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
Regards.
Max. K 4 O D S.
Email: max@maxsmusicplace.com
Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
funwithtransistors-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
funwithtubes-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Magnus Danielson" magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
On 12/19/2010 12:46 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Some one gave me an old Loran receiver. It fires up, the keypad and
LCD display seem to work but status is always "Searching"
Questions:
- I think there are still Loran transmitters?
- What does a Loran antenna look like? A random length of wire
strung up in the attic is doing nothing.
If you are in North America you are out of luck. You might pick up on European LORAN-C transmitters.
So, locality first...
THEN we can advice you on what antenna needs you have... and then we also needs to know what LORAN C receiver you have...
Cheers,
Magnus
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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and follow the instructions there.
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
On 12/19/2010 05:44 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
This is a marine navigation unit sold under "West Marine's" own brand
name. It looks modern and automated. Has functions on it like
"anchor drift alarm" Where you fix your location then set a radius
and if the unit moves outside the radius it beeps loudly. Just what
you'd want if your ship of dragging anchor. The unit is very small
and modern looking. It is controlled with a keypad and large LCD
screen. Zero analog knobs.
My guess is that this thing wants an active whip antenna of some kind.
There is an BNC on the back.
For longer distances I think a H-field antenna is preferred. It would
probably not be too hard to cook one up that would be suitable. The DC
bias of the BNC would be good to know in that case.
I don't think this is worth a lot of time, not if the transmitters are
gone. I thought I read they were going to continue for another 20
years.
Again, this all depends on where on this earth you are. We don't need
bomb-coordinates to help you...
Cheers,
Magnus
Again, this all depends on where on this earth you are. We don't need
bomb-coordinates to help you...
Cheers,
Magnus
It's on the signature line: "Redondo Beach, California". That is about
10 miles south of Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and about
a half mile due east of the Pacific Ocean
I looked up on the West marine web site and they still cary an antenna
and it's in stock. It's just a plain old 8 foot whip and sells for about $40.
with cable attached.
I took the unit apart and peked at the PCB. The antenna leads goes into
what looks like a RF amp made of discrete transistors, no DC to power
an active antenna.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
On 12/19/2010 10:04 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Again, this all depends on where on this earth you are. We don't need
bomb-coordinates to help you...
Cheers,
Magnus
It's on the signature line: "Redondo Beach, California". That is about
10 miles south of Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and about
a half mile due east of the Pacific Ocean
Sorry for the mental blocking. Signature lines is amusement only usually.
You are a bit far from the active LORAN-C transmitters... a continent
and an ocean away...
I looked up on the West marine web site and they still cary an antenna
and it's in stock. It's just a plain old 8 foot whip and sells for about $40.
with cable attached.
Fair deal.
I took the unit apart and peked at the PCB. The antenna leads goes into
what looks like a RF amp made of discrete transistors, no DC to power
an active antenna.
I wonder if a 8 foot whip and that amp will handle the distance.
I need a whip-antenna myself for my DGPS...
Cheers,
Magnus
The Canadian LORAN chains were operating after the US shut theirs down.
When I was flying my plane north of North Carolina, I could pick up the
Canadian chains and my old Northstar M2 LORAN/GPS would be fully functional.
However, since I live in Florida, I removed the Northstar and replaced it
with a Garmin GNS530W.
Are the Canadian chains still up or did they get shut down as well? Do you
live near Canada?
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 10:45 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
This is a marine navigation unit sold under "West Marine's" own brand
name. It looks modern and automated. Has functions on it like
"anchor drift alarm" Where you fix your location then set a radius and if
the unit moves outside the radius it beeps loudly. Just what you'd want if
your ship of dragging anchor. The unit is very small and modern looking.
It is controlled with a keypad and large LCD screen. Zero analog knobs.
My guess is that this thing wants an active whip antenna of some kind.
There is an BNC on the back.
I don't think this is worth a lot of time, not if the transmitters are
gone. I thought I read they were going to continue for another 20
years.
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Magnus Danielson
magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
On 12/19/2010 12:46 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Some one gave me an old Loran receiver. It fires up, the keypad and
LCD display seem to work but status is always "Searching"
Questions:
- I think there are still Loran transmitters?
- What does a Loran antenna look like? A random length of wire
strung up in the attic is doing nothing.
If you are in North America you are out of luck. You might pick up
on European LORAN-C transmitters.
So, locality first...
THEN we can advice you on what antenna needs you have... and then we
also needs to know what LORAN C receiver you have...
Cheers,
Magnus
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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and follow the instructions there.
Canada took theirs down in August, 2010.
J. L. Trantham wrote:
The Canadian LORAN chains were operating after the US shut theirs down.
When I was flying my plane north of North Carolina, I could pick up the
Canadian chains and my old Northstar M2 LORAN/GPS would be fully functional.
However, since I live in Florida, I removed the Northstar and replaced it
with a Garmin GNS530W.
Are the Canadian chains still up or did they get shut down as well? Do you
live near Canada?
Joe
LORAN -A,C are all dead in north america.
I think you have a boat anchor. Pun intended.
The LORAN As never had a keypad because they were analog.
As I recall they also used a twinax connector.
I dealt with a LORAN A on the NAVY ships in 1973, transitioned to OMEGA
(Long dead) and the LORAN C before getting out. It was pretty new. Also
aboard ship we were actually experimenting with sat nav. I think it was the
transit sats or even pre-transit. It was hush hush stuff then. Special team
came on board hooked up stuff for a run to Hawaii.
Regards
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Chuck Harris cfharris@erols.com wrote:
Canada took theirs down in August, 2010.
J. L. Trantham wrote:
The Canadian LORAN chains were operating after the US shut theirs down.
When I was flying my plane north of North Carolina, I could pick up the
Canadian chains and my old Northstar M2 LORAN/GPS would be fully
functional.
However, since I live in Florida, I removed the Northstar and replaced it
with a Garmin GNS530W.
Are the Canadian chains still up or did they get shut down as well? Do
you
live near Canada?
Joe
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There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.
Indeed. But thats the way it goes.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster jfor@quik.com wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower case.
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined
word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the
first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but
"scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's
vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym.
The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English
language changes with time. You can disagree. Many people do and
claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you
will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain
how it could be incorrect before that date.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed. But thats the way it goes.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster jfor@quik.com wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
As a non-engineer but a dedicated people-watcher, I enjoy the gentle
oneupsmanship on this list. It is conducted with the studied courtesy of
debate in the US Senate.
I await the day when someone opines as to the number of angels that can
dance on the head of a GPS antenna.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@gmail.com
wrote:
The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower
case.
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined
word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the
first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but
"scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's
vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym.
The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English
language changes with time. You can disagree. Many people do and
claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you
will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain
how it could be incorrect before that date.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed. But thats the way it goes.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster jfor@quik.com wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that
used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't
think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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IMO this trend is a two edged sword:
I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it becomming
a lower-case noun.
OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to become
"part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws.
FWIW,
-John
===============
The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed in lower
case.
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a coined
word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the
first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but
"scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old 1950's
vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an acronym.
The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English
language changes with time. You can disagree. Many people do and
claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you
will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then explain
how it could be incorrect before that date.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed. But thats the way it goes.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster jfor@quik.com wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he
meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that
used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of
the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't
think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Hi,
From: "Chris Albertson" albertson.chris@gmail.com
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym.
OED says: radar orig. U.S. [f. radio detection and ranging.]
Bye,
Jean-Louis
As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term
RADAR was coined in 1940 by the [1]U.S. Navy as an [2]acronym for radio
detection and ranging."
David
At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote:
IMO this trend is a two edged sword:
I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it
becomming
a lower-case noun.
OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to
become
"part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws.
FWIW,
-John
===============
The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed
in lower
case.
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a
coined
word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the
first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but
"scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old
1950's
vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an
acronym.
The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English
language changes with time. You can disagree. Many people do
and
claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then
you
will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then
explain
how it could be incorrect before that date.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
wrote:
wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain
he
meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service...
But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system
that
used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away
most of
the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I
don't
think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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_______________________________________________
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References
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
OED be damned!
I'm not going to change the name of one of my Yahoo Groups from
Vintage-Military-RADAR
So there ! :)
-Jo0hn
==================
As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term
RADAR was coined in 1940 by the U.S. Navy as an acronym for radio
detection and ranging."
David
At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote:
IMO this trend is a two edged sword:
I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it
becomming
a lower-case noun.
OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to become
"part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws.
FWIW,
-John
===============
The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and
"scuba" all listed in lower
case.
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a
coined
word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the
first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym
but
"scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the
old 1950's
vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was
never an acronym.
The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English
language changes with time. You can disagree. Many people do and
claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then you
will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then
explain
how it could be incorrect before that date.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed wrote:
Indeed. But thats the way it goes.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM, J. Forster wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain he
meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service... But
then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system that
used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away most of
the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I don't
think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
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--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Well I guess we are getting "nuts" about this. Yes OED
says "radar orig. U.S. [f. radio detection and ranging.]"
but that does not mean it is an acronym. OED reserves
the term "acronym" for words made using only the fist
letter of each description word. "radar" uses the first two
letters from "radio" and so OED uses only the "f."
I have the full version of OED at home. I'll try to look
it up. I bet they have a page length article on "radar".
The on-line version is very slimmed down
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Jean-Louis Noel jln@stben.net wrote:
Hi,
From: "Chris Albertson" albertson.chris@gmail.com
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym.
OED says: radar orig. U.S. [f. radio detection and ranging.]
Bye,
Jean-Louis
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--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR......
Rob (in UK) Kimberley
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David McGaw
Sent: 20 December 2010 8:49 PM
To: jfor@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term
RADAR was coined in 1940 by the [1]U.S. Navy as an [2]acronym for radio
detection and ranging."
David
At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote:
IMO this trend is a two edged sword:
I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it
becomming
a lower-case noun.
OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to
become
"part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws.
FWIW,
-John
===============
The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed
in lower
case.
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a
coined
word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the
first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but
"scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old
1950's
vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an
acronym.
The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English
language changes with time. You can disagree. Many people do
and
claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then
you
will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then
explain
how it could be incorrect before that date.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
wrote:
wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain
he
meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service...
But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system
that
used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away
most of
the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I
don't
think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[4]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
References
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
- https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
Hi,
From: "Chris Albertson" albertson.chris@gmail.com
Well I guess we are getting "nuts" about this.
Yes!
I have the full version of OED at home.
It is from the paper version!
First usage on the 18th of November 1941 by the N.Y. Times.
It was written 'Radar'.
I bet they have a page length article on "radar".
Yes, almost.
Bye,
Jean-Louis
Hi Rob no we invented "RDF" (or Radio Location)and they called it Radar :-))
Alan G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Kimberley" rk@timing-consultants.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR......
Rob (in UK) Kimberley
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David McGaw
Sent: 20 December 2010 8:49 PM
To: jfor@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term
RADAR was coined in 1940 by the [1]U.S. Navy as an [2]acronym for radio
detection and ranging."
David
At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote:
IMO this trend is a two edged sword:
I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it
becomming
a lower-case noun.
OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to
become
"part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws.
FWIW,
-John
===============
The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed
in lower
case.
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a
coined
word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the
first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but
"scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old
1950's
vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an
acronym.
The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English
language changes with time. You can disagree. Many people do
and
claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then
you
will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then
explain
how it could be incorrect before that date.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
wrote:
wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain
he
meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service...
But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system
that
used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away
most of
the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I
don't
think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[4]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
References
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism
3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
4. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
5. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
6. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
7. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
Well to be honest when I typed loran it was simply because I felt like it.
It was more important to communicate the fact that I couldn't here and
european stations in the northeast us. Thats all that mattered. Caps or
lowercase simply no longer matters to me on the dead us service.
So getting back at it I will fire up a different antenna and preamp and give
it one more shot.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Alan Melia alan.melia@btinternet.comwrote:
Hi Rob no we invented "RDF" (or Radio Location)and they called it Radar
:-))
Alan G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Kimberley" rk@timing-consultants.com
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
I there was me thinking that we invented RADAR......
Rob (in UK) Kimberley
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David McGaw
Sent: 20 December 2010 8:49 PM
To: jfor@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran?
As written in Wikipedia and as I have always understood: "The term
RADAR was coined in 1940 by the [1]U.S. Navy as an [2]acronym for
radio
detection and ranging."
David
At 01:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote:
IMO this trend is a two edged sword:
I don't like to see the historical aspect of the name lost by it
becomming
a lower-case noun.
OTOH, it's been said that the ultimate tribute in Physics is to
become
"part of the furniture", like Newton's or Maxwell's Laws.
FWIW,
-John
===============
The Oxford dictionary has "radar", "loran" and "scuba" all listed
in lower
case.
Also according to them "radar" never was an acronym. It is a
coined
word. Technically to be an acronym the it must be spelled by the
first letter of several other words. "SCUBA" is an acronym but
"scuba" is now a common English word that has displaced the old
1950's
vintage "SCUBA" in modern usage. But "radar" was never an
acronym.
The Oxford English Dictionary takes the view that the English
language changes with time. You can disagree. Many people do
and
claim English has fixed rules that never change but if you do then
you
will have to pick a date for when it was "correct" and then
explain
how it could be incorrect before that date.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
wrote:
wrote:
There ain't no such thing as Loran. It's LORAN, just like RADAR.
They are BOTH acronyms.
-John
=================
There never was a Loran receiver with a keypad. I am certain
he
meant
Loran C. Loran is (was) the common name for the service...
But then,
you already knew that, and were just trying to stir things up.
-Chuck Harris
Max Robinson wrote:
He didn't say Loran C he said Loran. That is the old system
that
used
to operate just above the AM broadcast band and took away
most of
the
160 meter ham band. That hasn't been around for decades. I
don't
think
there is a version of it operating anywhere in the world.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[4]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
References
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism
3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
4. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
5. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
6. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
7. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
In message AANLkTi=KYamMSdN7KoMCPBs8iGw=EXzxm7NQ767-+TOc@mail.gmail.com, paul
swed writes:
Well to be honest when I typed loran it was simply because I felt like it.
It was more important to communicate the fact that I couldn't here and
european stations in the northeast us. Thats all that mattered. Caps or
lowercase simply no longer matters to me on the dead us service.
So getting back at it I will fire up a different antenna and preamp and give
it one more shot.
Make sure you listen on the correct GRI's, some tables still list the
long abandoned 3-digit USCG chains, rather than the 4-digit NELS chains:
Eiði, GRI=9007
Lessay, GRI=6731
Sylt, GRI=7499
Værlandet, GRI=7001
For what it's worth, I have never been able to more than barely detect
the 9960 chain from here in Denmark, and that was only after a major
DSP exercise...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Thanks Poul will do its long enough past sunset to start hunting.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dkwrote:
In message <AANLkTi=KYamMSdN7KoMCPBs8iGw=EXzxm7NQ767-+TOc@mail.gmail.comEXzxm7NQ767-%2BTOc@mail.gmail.com>,
paul
swed writes:
Well to be honest when I typed loran it was simply because I felt like it.
It was more important to communicate the fact that I couldn't here and
european stations in the northeast us. Thats all that mattered. Caps or
lowercase simply no longer matters to me on the dead us service.
So getting back at it I will fire up a different antenna and preamp and
give
it one more shot.
Make sure you listen on the correct GRI's, some tables still list the
long abandoned 3-digit USCG chains, rather than the 4-digit NELS chains:
Eiği, GRI=9007
Lessay, GRI=6731
Sylt, GRI=7499
Værlandet, GRI=7001
For what it's worth, I have never been able to more than barely detect
the 9960 chain from here in Denmark, and that was only after a major
DSP exercise...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Interesting
Just barely I may be seeing several chains on the east coast of the US near
Boston.
I am using a austron 2100 and a 2100F. Definitely see it trying to lock and
its does go into settle mode. But I am afraid I may have some nasty
switching power supply of some sort nearby. I see a bursting noise signal
semi synchronous at 100 KC. Never seen this before.
I seem to see 9007 and 6731 the best. 7499 nothing and would say 7001 quite
weak.
May have to go to the older Austron 2000c and take a look. That gives me
much more flexibility in control to confirm that I can see the signals.
Antenna is a Loran preamplified antenna (No idea the model hamfest
stuff) with a fiber glass whip 7' tall wound with hundreds of turns of #26
gauge wire as a single layer. Approx 6 ft off the ground.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
2010/12/20 paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com
Thanks Poul will do its long enough past sunset to start hunting.
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dkwrote:
In message <AANLkTi=KYamMSdN7KoMCPBs8iGw=EXzxm7NQ767-+TOc@mail.gmail.comEXzxm7NQ767-%2BTOc@mail.gmail.com>,
paul
swed writes:
Well to be honest when I typed loran it was simply because I felt like
it.
It was more important to communicate the fact that I couldn't here and
european stations in the northeast us. Thats all that mattered. Caps or
lowercase simply no longer matters to me on the dead us service.
So getting back at it I will fire up a different antenna and preamp and
give
it one more shot.
Make sure you listen on the correct GRI's, some tables still list the
long abandoned 3-digit USCG chains, rather than the 4-digit NELS chains:
Eiği, GRI=9007
Lessay, GRI=6731
Sylt, GRI=7499
Værlandet, GRI=7001
For what it's worth, I have never been able to more than barely detect
the 9960 chain from here in Denmark, and that was only after a major
DSP exercise...
Poul-Henning
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
incompetence.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.