Empathy List Archives

PK

Peter Krengel

Sun, Sep 5, 2010 4:12 PM

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna.

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?

Thank you

Peter, DG4EK

Hello, I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations. The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same material didnt effect the antenna. Is there possibly a cavity effect? What to take best? Any ideas? Thank you Peter, DG4EK

RA

Robert Atkinson

Sun, Sep 5, 2010 5:03 PM

Hi Peter,
Sounds like refraction. The plastic has more effect at lower angles.

Robert G8RPI

--- On Sun, 5/9/10, Peter Krengel krengeldatec@gmx.de wrote:

From: Peter Krengel krengeldatec@gmx.de
Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Sunday, 5 September, 2010, 17:12

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna.

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?

Thank you

Peter, DG4EK

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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Peter, Sounds like refraction. The plastic has more effect at lower angles. Robert G8RPI --- On Sun, 5/9/10, Peter Krengel <krengeldatec@gmx.de> wrote: From: Peter Krengel <krengeldatec@gmx.de> Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing? To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Sunday, 5 September, 2010, 17:12 Hello, I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations. The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same material didnt effect the antenna. Is there possibly a cavity effect? What to take best? Any ideas? Thank you Peter, DG4EK _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

SR

Stanley Reynolds

Sun, Sep 5, 2010 5:18 PM

Test the box minus the screws in a microwave oven if the material heats up then
it is not transparent. May not be the plastic but a pigment that was added to
give the box it's color.

Stanley

----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Krengel krengeldatec@gmx.de
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 11:12:05 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at
lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna.

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?

Thank you

Peter, DG4EK

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Test the box minus the screws in a microwave oven if the material heats up then it is not transparent. May not be the plastic but a pigment that was added to give the box it's color. Stanley ----- Original Message ---- From: Peter Krengel <krengeldatec@gmx.de> To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 11:12:05 AM Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing? Hello, I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations. The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same material didnt effect the antenna. Is there possibly a cavity effect? What to take best? Any ideas? Thank you Peter, DG4EK _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

SR

Stanley Reynolds

Sun, Sep 5, 2010 5:27 PM

The plastic may also function as a lens particularly the corners of the box
see:

http://authors.library.caltech.edu/10409/1/ZMUieeetmtt92.pdf

figure 2 shows a polyethylene lens.

Stanley

----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Krengel krengeldatec@gmx.de
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 11:12:05 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at
lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna.

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?

Thank you

Peter, DG4EK

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

The plastic may also function as a lens particularly the corners of the box see: http://authors.library.caltech.edu/10409/1/ZMUieeetmtt92.pdf figure 2 shows a polyethylene lens. Stanley ----- Original Message ---- From: Peter Krengel <krengeldatec@gmx.de> To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 11:12:05 AM Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing? Hello, I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations. The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same material didnt effect the antenna. Is there possibly a cavity effect? What to take best? Any ideas? Thank you Peter, DG4EK _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

BC

Bob Camp

Sun, Sep 5, 2010 5:35 PM

Hi

What are you trying to achieve ?

If you are looking for a simple cover for the patch, the microwave oven is your friend. Anything that heats up in a microwave is a bad idea, unless it's thin. Most materials with a variable cross section will act as a lens to some extent.

Bob

On Sep 5, 2010, at 12:12 PM, "Peter Krengel" krengeldatec@gmx.de wrote:

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna.

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?

Thank you

Peter, DG4EK

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi What are you trying to achieve ? If you are looking for a simple cover for the patch, the microwave oven is your friend. Anything that heats up in a microwave is a bad idea, unless it's thin. Most materials with a variable cross section will act as a lens to some extent. Bob On Sep 5, 2010, at 12:12 PM, "Peter Krengel" <krengeldatec@gmx.de> wrote: > Hello, > > I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a > small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations. > The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments > covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals > too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same > material didnt effect the antenna. > > Is there possibly a cavity effect? > > What to take best? > > Any ideas? > > > Thank you > > Peter, DG4EK > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

KP

Kasper Pedersen

Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:26 PM

On 09/05/2010 06:12 PM, Peter Krengel wrote:

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna.

Finding a suitable top for that gps module/patch/.. that is both the
right material and the right shape is hard. Just the right shape is
much easier. So:

I have had good success with vacuum forming such a beast. One particular
glass cup I have in the kitchen is flat top conical, of just the right
size. I put it on top of the ground plane, a 1mm sheet of
clear polycarbonate above that, and with an air pump and heat gun I
pulled the PC down around it. A bit of white paint on the inside, and
it looks really good.

/Kasper Pedersen

On 09/05/2010 06:12 PM, Peter Krengel wrote: > Hello, > > I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a > small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at lower elevations. > The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments > covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals > too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same > material didnt effect the antenna. > Finding a suitable top for that gps module/patch/.. that is both the right material and the right shape is hard. Just the right shape is much easier. So: I have had good success with vacuum forming such a beast. One particular glass cup I have in the kitchen is flat top conical, of just the right size. I put it on top of the ground plane, a 1mm sheet of clear polycarbonate above that, and with an air pump and heat gun I pulled the PC down around it. A bit of white paint on the inside, and it looks really good. /Kasper Pedersen

B

bg@lysator.liu.se

Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:14 PM

On 09/05/2010 06:12 PM, Peter Krengel wrote:

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader
signals at lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna.

Finding a suitable top for that gps module/patch/.. that is both the
right material and the right shape is hard. Just the right shape is
much easier. So:

I have had good success with vacuum forming such a beast. One particular
glass cup I have in the kitchen is flat top conical, of just the right
size. I put it on top of the ground plane, a 1mm sheet of
clear polycarbonate above that, and with an air pump and heat gun I
pulled the PC down around it. A bit of white paint on the inside, and
it looks really good.

/Kasper Pedersen

Many swedish reference stations have a snow cone made of (iirc) Plexiglass

Polymetylmetacrylic (PMMA). It should be formable using Kaspers above
method.

http://swepos.lmv.lm.se/stationer/hjo.htm

--
Björn

> On 09/05/2010 06:12 PM, Peter Krengel wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a >> small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader >> signals at lower elevations. >> The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments >> covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals >> too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same >> material didnt effect the antenna. >> > > Finding a suitable top for that gps module/patch/.. that is both the > right material and the right shape is hard. Just the right shape is > much easier. So: > > I have had good success with vacuum forming such a beast. One particular > glass cup I have in the kitchen is flat top conical, of just the right > size. I put it on top of the ground plane, a 1mm sheet of > clear polycarbonate above that, and with an air pump and heat gun I > pulled the PC down around it. A bit of white paint on the inside, and > it looks really good. > > > /Kasper Pedersen Many swedish reference stations have a snow cone made of (iirc) Plexiglass - Polymetylmetacrylic (PMMA). It should be formable using Kaspers above method. http://swepos.lmv.lm.se/stationer/hjo.htm -- Björn

G

George

Mon, Sep 6, 2010 7:01 PM

I have perhaps a dozen dead Trimble "Bullet" antennas, allegedly done in
by near-by lightning. Inside looks like the same ceramic patch as the
mobile antennas, with different electronics on the back side of the
"ground plane". The radome is gasketed, and the whole assembly can be
disassembled and reassembled; they have TNC female connectors. $10 plus
shipping, US only. They weigh nothing, so I'll see how cheaply they can
ship.

73,

geo - n4ua

bg@lysator.liu.se wrote:

On 09/05/2010 06:12 PM, Peter Krengel wrote:

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader
signals at lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna.

Finding a suitable top for that gps module/patch/.. that is both the
right material and the right shape is hard. Just the right shape is
much easier. So:

I have had good success with vacuum forming such a beast. One particular
glass cup I have in the kitchen is flat top conical, of just the right
size. I put it on top of the ground plane, a 1mm sheet of
clear polycarbonate above that, and with an air pump and heat gun I
pulled the PC down around it. A bit of white paint on the inside, and
it looks really good.

/Kasper Pedersen

Many swedish reference stations have a snow cone made of (iirc) Plexiglass

Polymetylmetacrylic (PMMA). It should be formable using Kaspers above
method.

http://swepos.lmv.lm.se/stationer/hjo.htm

--
Björn

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

I have perhaps a dozen dead Trimble "Bullet" antennas, allegedly done in by near-by lightning. Inside looks like the same ceramic patch as the mobile antennas, with different electronics on the back side of the "ground plane". The radome is gasketed, and the whole assembly can be disassembled and reassembled; they have TNC female connectors. $10 plus shipping, US only. They weigh nothing, so I'll see how cheaply they can ship. 73, geo - n4ua bg@lysator.liu.se wrote: >> On 09/05/2010 06:12 PM, Peter Krengel wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a >>> small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader >>> signals at lower elevations. >>> The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments >>> covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals >>> too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same >>> material didnt effect the antenna. >>> >> Finding a suitable top for that gps module/patch/.. that is both the >> right material and the right shape is hard. Just the right shape is >> much easier. So: >> >> I have had good success with vacuum forming such a beast. One particular >> glass cup I have in the kitchen is flat top conical, of just the right >> size. I put it on top of the ground plane, a 1mm sheet of >> clear polycarbonate above that, and with an air pump and heat gun I >> pulled the PC down around it. A bit of white paint on the inside, and >> it looks really good. >> >> >> /Kasper Pedersen > > Many swedish reference stations have a snow cone made of (iirc) Plexiglass > - Polymetylmetacrylic (PMMA). It should be formable using Kaspers above > method. > > http://swepos.lmv.lm.se/stationer/hjo.htm > > -- > Björn > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

time-nuts@lists.febo.com

GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?