Re: TWL: To gen or not to gen
In a message dated 8/21/2002 10:14:34 AM Central Daylight Time,
Richter-Pooh@rocketmail.com writes:
<< On Pooh, wh've had a Heart 10 for 5 years, and never had any load
it wouldn't run, including my drill press, Milwaukee circular
saw, shopvac, and steam iron. Six golf cart batteries sounds
about right for the house bank. Consider adding a battery
de-sulphator ($70 or less) to keep them in good condition and
lengthen their life. >>
All of these things you mention really aren't high draw items. Nor
would charterers be using them. They will be using coffee pots and
microwaves which are very high draw items. I am not going against popular
opinion here, it just may be that some folks aren't all that savvy in
manageing their DC usage. And if you go to the extreme end of the spectrum,
there are some folks that would use these appliances without even thinking
about the power requirements.
Now, on a little bit different note. I don't know how you plan to
charter or manage the charter, but you will need to look at it in a marketing
perspective. If I am the average charter Joe Blow and I see two boats, one
with a gen and one without, I am going to take the one with the generator.
Charter Joe is on vacation. He doesn't want to jack with keeping track of
power consuption and running the engine to recharge the batteries, etc. And
besides, Charter Joe is not in the guru state of power management that some
people on this list are. He most probably does not understand.
So from a marketing perspective, it is a much easier sell with a
generator. The boat without the generator will probably go out last. From
an owner/manager perpective, a generator is a little more idiot proof.
Trawler on,
John
John wrote:
So from a marketing perspective, it is a much easier sell with a
generator. The boat without the generator will probably go out last.
From
an owner/manager perpective, a generator is a little more idiot proof.
I agree with John. If you weed out all the potential charters that don't
have the proper knoledge of electrical conservation along with driving
abilities, etc, you will soon weed out all your clients. There are already
enough things to screen them for without adding this one. I also agree that
from a "vacationers" perspective, I thing the average Joe would prefer at
least a small genset. Rich also pointed out that if they screw totally up &
run all batteries down, they need the genset to get things going again.
You're not always going to be dealing with savy full time cruisers here!
I vote on the side of at least a small genset. (AC or DC) I think it would
help the resale also. If you opt to not include one, at least have it wired
for one in case you change your mind later down the road (waterway?).
Brent
"If you weed out all the potential charters that don't
have the proper knoledge of electrical conservation along with driving
abilities, etc, you will soon weed out all your clients. There are already
enough things to screen them for without adding this one. I also agree that
from a "vacationers" perspective, I thing the average Joe would prefer at
least a small genset. Rich also pointed out that if they screw totally up &
run all batteries down, they need the genset to get things going again.
You're not always going to be dealing with savy full time cruisers here!
I vote on the side of at least a small genset. (AC or DC) I think it would
help the resale also. If you opt to not include one, at least have it wired
for one in case you change your mind later down the road (waterway?)."
Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful responses. I'm starting to be
swayed on this one. If it were my personal boat there'd be no generator,
but you've convinced me that charter clients may expect and need a genset.
It's more important that they have a no-worry, trouble-free vacation than
for me to have a bit less maintenance/cost.
That being said, with the configuration I'll have, I still don't believe a
generator will be needed or run very often. I'd like to go with the
smallest, quietest one that will get the job done. I'm thinking a Northern
Lights 5KW - does that sound like a good choice? (Arild - does Balmar have
a website? I couldn't find one.)
"My start battery is charged with a dedicated charger plugged into AC and no
connection to the alternator (the boat has an inverter). Easy to install,
not too expensive, no switches to forget ( a BIG problem with charterers),
totally automatic, no maintenance, easy for your boat boys to check
operation."
Richard - that's an ingenious solution. I'll look into it further. Thanks.
What type of charger are you using? But for the record... I AM the "boat
boy" in this operation, as well as the housekeeper, mechanic, baby sitter
and every other occupation you can think of for the foreseeable future!
Bob Deering
Juneau, Alaska
"My start battery is charged with a dedicated charger plugged into AC and
no
connection to the alternator (the boat has an inverter). (endsnip)
This could probably be acomplished with a $50 Battery-minder. It would keep
the battery topped off & de-sulphated at the same time. It would take
forever to recharge form a low state, but if all systems are in good shape,
it doesn't drain an engine start battery much just to fire those puppies
off. Comments?
Brent
Robert Deering wrote
Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful responses. I'm starting to be
swayed on this one.
It's more important that they have a no-worry, trouble-free vacation than
for me to have a bit less maintenance/cost.
I'd like to go with the smallest, quietest one that will get the job done. I'm thinking a
Northern
Lights 5KW - does that sound like a good choice? (Arild - does Balmar have a
website? I couldn't find one.)
REPLY
I would recommend the 6.0 Northern Light over the 5.0
Unless they have changed something in the past year the 6.0 is a newer design and
ha a better quality voltage regulation system than the 5.0
Balmar has a website www.balmar.net
The .net is probably why you didn't find it especially if you usd a .com designation.
Richard wrote:
"My start battery is charged with a dedicated charger plugged into AC and no
connection to the alternator (the boat has an inverter). Easy to install, not
too expensive, no switches to forget ( a BIG problem with charterers), totally
automatic, no maintenance, easy for your boat boys to check operation."
REPLY
Richard's solution is ideal for a boat which spend time at a dock with shore power.
For a boat which is mostly away from shore power, consider using the Xantrex Echo
charger. This is available as a stand alone box which is a voltage follower connected
to the inverter or big amperage charger for the house bank.
It limits the current to 15 amps thus preventing cooking a start battery while the
house bank is bulk charged at a 100+ amps.
Regards
Arild
Brent wrote:
This could probably be acomplished with a $50 Battery-minder. It would keep the
battery topped off & de-sulphated at the same time. It would take forever to
recharge form a low state
REPLY
The Battery Minder is not really a charger. It only provides a maintenance charge.
To my mind a separate 10 amp charger plus a desulphator will likely forstall any
problem in starting except cases where the fuel line is clogged or needs bleeding.
Having said that and mindful of charter business realities, I would also recommend a
momentary contactor for paralleling the house bank to start.
As soon as you release the button, the parallel path is broken so you cannot
accidenttally forget it and drain both batteries.
If the charterer has to sit and wait for a couple of hours while a small charger trickle
charges a totally flat 8D start battery, you can bet they will complain - even if they
were responsible for running the battery flat.
regards
Arild
Xantrex Echo charger
It limits the current to 15 amps thus preventing cooking a start battery
while the
house bank is bulk charged at a 100+ amps.
Arild,
With a Freedom inverter/charger hooked to a house bank & the Echo hooked to
a start battery, is there any danger of damage to the charger (model 25 in
my case) if you had to parallel the batteries to start an engine? What about
if the parallel switch got thrown while plugged in to shore power & in the
charging mode? Will the main charger & the Echo charger have a conflict &
damage one or both?
Thanks for your knoledge & help!
Brent
Actually that is the point of the exercise.. to make it near impossible for
the start battery to go flat except for a battery collapse which will happen
in about 5 to 6 years.
The momentary parallel switch is an unnecessary complication.
As Arild says, the Battery Minder is not a charger and would get you in
trouble in the typical charter season if it were the only source to the
battery. The charger is the right size to give a prompt correct charge; the
Battery Minder prevents sulphation in the off season. Both work to optimize
battery life.
That said, in charter service, you don't want to leave the batteries in
until they fail. I would never leave a good start battery in longer than 5
years in charter service.
Richard
This could probably be acomplished with a $50 Battery-minder. It would
keep the
battery topped off & de-sulphated at the same time. It would take
forever to
recharge form a low state
I would also recommend a
momentary contactor for paralleling the house bank to start.
As soon as you release the button, the parallel path is broken so you
cannot
accidenttally forget it and drain both batteries.
If the charterer has to sit and wait for a couple of hours while a small
charger trickle
charges a totally flat 8D start battery, you can bet they will complain -
even if they
were responsible for running the battery flat.