W
W4wj@aol.com
Tue, Nov 18, 2014 4:29 PM
Hello all...
Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
My stupid question (s)...
Where does the GPS antenna connect??
Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
TIA...
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective
it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
from the same source doesn't work as well.
None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev
perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have
a nice collection of frequency counters.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com
wrote:
Correct on all counts Bob.
My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for
even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a
costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
Those 10811s just rule.
In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
spurs you can see in the plots...
Bye,
Said
Sent From iPhone
On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around
If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
noise floor that the MTI’s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other
GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There
you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited
use in a practical system.
On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
Hi Bob,
yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good
till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the
DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the
58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose).
The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is
very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering
out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should
be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units
to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
bye,
Said
In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
Hi
Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an
very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15
MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the
surplus market.
I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I
would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz.
No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
Math:
15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
-140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a
number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work
fine for him.
Bob
<DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
and follow the instructions there.
Hello all...
Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
My stupid question (s)...
Where does the GPS antenna connect??
Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
TIA...
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective
it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
from the same source doesn't work as well.
None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev
perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have
a nice collection of frequency counters.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>
wrote:
> Correct on all counts Bob.
>
> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for
even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a
costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
>
> Those 10811s just rule.
>
> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
spurs you can see in the plots...
>
> Bye,
> Said
>
> Sent From iPhone
>
>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around
it - right?
>>
>> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
noise floor that the MTI’s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other
GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There
you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited
use in a practical system.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good
till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
>>>
>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the
DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the
58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose).
>>>
>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is
very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering
out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should
be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units
to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
>>>
>>> bye,
>>> Said
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
kb8tq@n1k.org writes:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an
very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15
MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the
surplus market.
>>>
>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I
would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz.
No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>
>>> Math:
>>>
>>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>
>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>
>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a
number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work
fine for him.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
AR
Anthony Roby
Tue, Nov 18, 2014 4:49 PM
If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of photos I posted. This one https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Murray via time-nuts
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
Hello all...
Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
My stupid question (s)...
Where does the GPS antenna connect??
Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
TIA...
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective
it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
from the same source doesn't work as well.
None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have
a nice collection of frequency counters.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com
wrote:
Correct on all counts Bob.
My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
Those 10811s just rule.
In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
spurs you can see in the plots...
Bye,
Said
Sent From iPhone
On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
around
If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system.
On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
Hi Bob,
yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
good
till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose).
The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
is
very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
bye,
Said
In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
Hi
Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
an
very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve seen on the surplus market.
I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
I
would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz.
No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
Math:
15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
-140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
a
number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him.
Bob
<DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
and follow the instructions there.
If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of photos I posted. This one https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Murray via time-nuts
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
Hello all...
Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
My stupid question (s)...
Where does the GPS antenna connect??
Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
TIA...
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective
it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
from the same source doesn't work as well.
None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have
a nice collection of frequency counters.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>
wrote:
> Correct on all counts Bob.
>
> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
>
> Those 10811s just rule.
>
> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
spurs you can see in the plots...
>
> Bye,
> Said
>
> Sent From iPhone
>
>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
>> around
it - right?
>>
>> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
>>> good
till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
>>>
>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose).
>>>
>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
>>> is
very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
>>>
>>> bye,
>>> Said
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
kb8tq@n1k.org writes:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
>>> an
very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve seen on the surplus market.
>>>
>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
>>> I
would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz.
No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>
>>> Math:
>>>
>>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>
>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>
>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
>>> a
number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
P
pch.tns
Tue, Nov 18, 2014 6:01 PM
Hi Don,
J7, marked GPS antenna is a good start. This connector also powers your GPS Antenna.
Take care
Peter
HB9DQY
On 18 Nov 2014, at 11:49, Anthony Roby aroby@antamy.com wrote:
If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of photos I posted. This one https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Murray via time-nuts
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
Hello all...
Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
My stupid question (s)...
Where does the GPS antenna connect??
Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
TIA...
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective
it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
from the same source doesn't work as well.
None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have
a nice collection of frequency counters.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com
wrote:
Correct on all counts Bob.
My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
Those 10811s just rule.
In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
spurs you can see in the plots...
Bye,
Said
Sent From iPhone
On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
around
If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system.
On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
Hi Bob,
yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
good
till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose).
The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
is
very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
bye,
Said
In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
Hi
Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
an
very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve seen on the surplus market.
I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
I
would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz.
No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
Math:
15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
-140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
a
number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him.
Bob
<DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Don,
J7, marked GPS antenna is a good start. This connector also powers your GPS Antenna.
Take care
Peter
HB9DQY
> On 18 Nov 2014, at 11:49, Anthony Roby <aroby@antamy.com> wrote:
>
> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of photos I posted. This one https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>
> Anthony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Murray via time-nuts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>
> Hello all...
>
> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>
> My stupid question (s)...
>
> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
>
> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
>
> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
>
> TIA...
>
>
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
>
> One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
> similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective
> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
> At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
> from the same source doesn't work as well.
>
> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have
> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Correct on all counts Bob.
>>
>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
>>
>> Those 10811s just rule.
>>
>> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
> spurs you can see in the plots...
>>
>> Bye,
>> Said
>>
>> Sent From iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
>>> around
> it - right?
>>>
>>> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
>>>> good
> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
>>>>
>>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose).
>>>>
>>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
>>>> is
> very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
>>>>
>>>> bye,
>>>> Said
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
> kb8tq@n1k.org writes:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
>>>> an
> very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve seen on the surplus market.
>>>>
>>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
>>>> I
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz.
> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>>
>>>> Math:
>>>>
>>>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>
>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>>
>>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
>>>> a
> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
TM
Tom Miller
Tue, Nov 18, 2014 6:04 PM
Yes, and the antenna voltage is 5 volts. So be sure to use a 5 volt antenna.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Roby" aroby@antamy.com
To: W4wj@aol.com; "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of
photos I posted. This one
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the
front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
Murray via time-nuts
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
Hello all...
Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
My stupid question (s)...
Where does the GPS antenna connect??
Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
TIA...
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev
perspective
it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
from the same source doesn't work as well.
None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev
perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site
with
10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I
still have
a nice collection of frequency counters.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts
time-nuts@febo.com
wrote:
Correct on all counts Bob.
My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel
ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I
also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
Those 10811s just rule.
In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
spurs you can see in the plots...
Bye,
Said
Sent From iPhone
On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
around
If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only
other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original
TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise
floor of limited use in a practical system.
On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
Hi Bob,
yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
good
till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done
to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and
spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this
purpose).
The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
is
very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already.
Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do.
It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for
those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
bye,
Said
In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
Hi
Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
an
very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The
15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve
seen on the surplus market.
I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
I
would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100
Hz.
No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
Math:
15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
-140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
a
number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
work fine for him.
Bob
<DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
and follow the instructions there.
Yes, and the antenna voltage is 5 volts. So be sure to use a 5 volt antenna.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Roby" <aroby@antamy.com>
To: <W4wj@aol.com>; "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
<time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of
> photos I posted. This one
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the
> front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>
> Anthony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
> Murray via time-nuts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>
> Hello all...
>
> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>
> My stupid question (s)...
>
> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
>
> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
>
> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
>
> TIA...
>
>
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
>
> One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
> similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev
> perspective
> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
> At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
> from the same source doesn't work as well.
>
> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
> basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev
> perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site
> with
> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I
> still have
> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts
> <time-nuts@febo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Correct on all counts Bob.
>>
>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel
> ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I
> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
>>
>> Those 10811s just rule.
>>
>> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
> spurs you can see in the plots...
>>
>> Bye,
>> Said
>>
>> Sent From iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
>>> around
> it - right?
>>>
>>> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
> noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only
> other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original
> TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise
> floor of limited use in a practical system.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
>>>> good
> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
>>>>
>>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done
> to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and
> spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this
> purpose).
>>>>
>>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
>>>> is
> very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already.
> Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do.
> It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for
> those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
>>>>
>>>> bye,
>>>> Said
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
> kb8tq@n1k.org writes:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
>>>> an
> very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The
> 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve
> seen on the surplus market.
>>>>
>>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
>>>> I
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
> will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100
> Hz.
> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>>
>>>> Math:
>>>>
>>>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>
>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>>
>>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
>>>> a
> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
> work fine for him.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
PS
paul swed
Tue, Nov 18, 2014 6:27 PM
In the picture its the top unit ref1 and its the left hand TNC and it does
power the antenna.
If no antenna you need to tie a resistor to ground on the tnc to fake it
out.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Anthony Roby aroby@antamy.com wrote:
If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of
photos I posted. This one
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the
front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
Murray via time-nuts
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
Hello all...
Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
My stupid question (s)...
Where does the GPS antenna connect??
Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
TIA...
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev
perspective
it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
from the same source doesn't work as well.
None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev
perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I
still have
a nice collection of frequency counters.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com
Correct on all counts Bob.
My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel
ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I
also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
Those 10811s just rule.
In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
spurs you can see in the plots...
Bye,
Said
Sent From iPhone
On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
around
If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only
other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts
. There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor
of limited use in a practical system.
On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
Hi Bob,
yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
good
till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done
to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and
spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this
purpose).
The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
is
very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already.
Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do.
It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for
those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
bye,
Said
In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
Hi
Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
an
very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The
15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve
seen on the surplus market.
I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
I
would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100
Hz.
No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
Math:
15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
-140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
a
number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
work fine for him.
Bob
<DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
and follow the instructions there.
In the picture its the top unit ref1 and its the left hand TNC and it does
power the antenna.
If no antenna you need to tie a resistor to ground on the tnc to fake it
out.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Anthony Roby <aroby@antamy.com> wrote:
> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of
> photos I posted. This one
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the
> front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>
> Anthony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
> Murray via time-nuts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>
> Hello all...
>
> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>
> My stupid question (s)...
>
> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
>
> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
>
> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
>
> TIA...
>
>
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
>
> One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
> similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev
> perspective
> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
> At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
> from the same source doesn't work as well.
>
> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
> basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev
> perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I
> still have
> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Correct on all counts Bob.
> >
> > My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel
> ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I
> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
> >
> > Those 10811s just rule.
> >
> > In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
> spurs you can see in the plots...
> >
> > Bye,
> > Said
> >
> > Sent From iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
> >> around
> it - right?
> >>
> >> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
> noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only
> other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts
> . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor
> of limited use in a practical system.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Bob,
> >>>
> >>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
> >>> good
> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
> >>>
> >>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done
> to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and
> spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this
> purpose).
> >>>
> >>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
> >>> is
> very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already.
> Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do.
> It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for
> those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
> >>>
> >>> bye,
> >>> Said
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
> kb8tq@n1k.org writes:
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
> >>> an
> very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The
> 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve
> seen on the surplus market.
> >>>
> >>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
> >>> I
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
> will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100
> Hz.
> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
> >>>
> >>> Math:
> >>>
> >>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
> >>>
> >>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
> >>>
> >>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
> >>> a
> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
> work fine for him.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
BC
Bob Camp
Tue, Nov 18, 2014 10:57 PM
Hi
The GPS antennal goes into the TNC connector on the left hand side of the front panel. The box sources +5V power for an antenna.
Bob
On Nov 18, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Don Murray via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote:
Hello all...
Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
My stupid question (s)...
Where does the GPS antenna connect??
Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
TIA...
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective
it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
from the same source doesn't work as well.
None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev
perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have
a nice collection of frequency counters.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com
wrote:
Correct on all counts Bob.
My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for
even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a
costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
Those 10811s just rule.
In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
spurs you can see in the plots...
Bye,
Said
Sent From iPhone
On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around
If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
noise floor that the MTI’s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other
GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There
you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited
use in a practical system.
On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
Hi Bob,
yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good
till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the
DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the
58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose).
The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is
very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering
out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should
be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units
to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
bye,
Said
In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
Hi
Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an
very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15
MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the
surplus market.
I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I
would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz.
No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
Math:
15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
-140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a
number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work
fine for him.
Bob
<DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
The GPS antennal goes into the TNC connector on the left hand side of the front panel. The box sources +5V power for an antenna.
Bob
> On Nov 18, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Don Murray via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all...
>
> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>
> My stupid question (s)...
>
> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
>
> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
>
> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
>
> TIA...
>
>
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> mark@alignedsolutions.com writes:
>
> One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
> similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev perspective
> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so iirc.)
> At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other Z3805
> from the same source doesn't work as well.
>
> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
> basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an Adev
> perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site with
> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I still have
> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Correct on all counts Bob.
>>
>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for
> even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a
> costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
>>
>> Those 10811s just rule.
>>
>> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
> spurs you can see in the plots...
>>
>> Bye,
>> Said
>>
>> Sent From iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around
> it - right?
>>>
>>> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
> noise floor that the MTI’s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other
> GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There
> you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited
> use in a practical system.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good
> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
>>>>
>>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the
> DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the
> 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose).
>>>>
>>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is
> very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering
> out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should
> be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units
> to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
>>>>
>>>> bye,
>>>> Said
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
> kb8tq@n1k.org writes:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an
> very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15
> MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the
> surplus market.
>>>>
>>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
> will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz.
> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>>
>>>> Math:
>>>>
>>>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>
>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>>
>>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a
> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work
> fine for him.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>>
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