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TWL: report on refrigerator

B
baumgart@starrstuff.com
Thu, Mar 2, 2000 5:41 PM

Hi, after all the talk I discarded my plan to buy a second Norcold and got
a standard compact from Circuit City.  It is 4.1 cubic feet, and draws only
85 watts.  Cost $199.  They had smaller ones down to $129 and also ones in
the 10 cubic foot range for $300.

The one we selected has all the plumbing inside the case (so it is
protected) and a nice work surface on top (like a cutting board).  It will
be mounted in a corner of the saloon and our little TV/VCR will be on top.
Everything will be held firmly in place with some mounts I made.

I bought a Statpower portable 1000 watt inverter for $300.  Hooking the two
up gives us a great refrigerator, plus significant additional AC inverter
power, for far, far less $ than the Norcold solution.

Since my bread machine draws 500 watts I am hoping I can also run that off
the inverter, I love waking up to fresh bread after a night swinging on the
hook.

-JimB
Jim Baumgart
<")))>><
(760)749-4257 San Diego

Hi, after all the talk I discarded my plan to buy a second Norcold and got a standard compact from Circuit City. It is 4.1 cubic feet, and draws only 85 watts. Cost $199. They had smaller ones down to $129 and also ones in the 10 cubic foot range for $300. The one we selected has all the plumbing inside the case (so it is protected) and a nice work surface on top (like a cutting board). It will be mounted in a corner of the saloon and our little TV/VCR will be on top. Everything will be held firmly in place with some mounts I made. I bought a Statpower portable 1000 watt inverter for $300. Hooking the two up gives us a great refrigerator, plus significant additional AC inverter power, for far, far less $ than the Norcold solution. Since my bread machine draws 500 watts I am hoping I can also run that off the inverter, I love waking up to fresh bread after a night swinging on the hook. -JimB Jim Baumgart <")))>>< (760)749-4257 San Diego
T
tellup@erols.com
Thu, Mar 2, 2000 7:30 PM

I got one of these Statpowers last fall.  Even though it has
'1000' written in
nice bold letters all over the box,  is only rated for 600
w. continuous.  You
may need to do some power mgmt. with the bread machine on.

Mike Tellup
IV Roman - 34 Mainship II
Havre de Grace, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Baumgart baumgart@starrstuff.com
To: <trawler-world-list@samurai.com

I bought a Statpower portable 1000 watt inverter for $300.

Hooking the two

up gives us a great refrigerator, plus significant

additional AC inverter

power, for far, far less $ than the Norcold solution.

Since my bread machine draws 500 watts I am hoping I can

also run that off

the inverter, I love waking up to fresh bread after a

night swinging on the

hook.

I got one of these Statpowers last fall. Even though it has '1000' written in nice bold letters all over the box, is only rated for 600 w. continuous. You may need to do some power mgmt. with the bread machine on. Mike Tellup IV Roman - 34 Mainship II Havre de Grace, MD ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Baumgart <baumgart@starrstuff.com> To: <trawler-world-list@samurai.com > > I bought a Statpower portable 1000 watt inverter for $300. Hooking the two > up gives us a great refrigerator, plus significant additional AC inverter > power, for far, far less $ than the Norcold solution. > > Since my bread machine draws 500 watts I am hoping I can also run that off > the inverter, I love waking up to fresh bread after a night swinging on the > hook. >
T
tellup@erols.com
Sun, Mar 5, 2000 2:41 AM

I wrote:
----- Original Message -----

I got one of these Statpowers last fall.  Even though it has
'1000' written in
nice bold letters all over the box,  is only rated for 600
w. continuous.

I was in error.  The Statpower I have is rated for 800w continuous,
1000 w for 5 min. and 2000w surge.

Thanks to Arlid for a private email pointing out I might have misread
the specs.

Mike Tellup
IV Roman - 34 Mainship II
Havre de Grace, MD

I wrote: ----- Original Message ----- > I got one of these Statpowers last fall. Even though it has > '1000' written in > nice bold letters all over the box, is only rated for 600 > w. continuous. I was in error. The Statpower I have is rated for 800w continuous, 1000 w for 5 min. and 2000w surge. Thanks to Arlid for a private email pointing out I might have misread the specs. Mike Tellup IV Roman - 34 Mainship II Havre de Grace, MD
E
elnav@uniserve.com
Sun, Mar 5, 2000 4:12 PM

At 06:41 PM 03/04/2000 -0800, Mike Tellup wrote:

I was in error.  The Statpower I have is rated for 800w continuous,
1000 w for 5 min. and 2000w surge.

Thanks to Arild  for a private email pointing out I might have misread
the specs.

Mike Tellup
IV Roman - 34 Mainship II
Havre de Grace, MD

Arild adds

I would like to clarify  the distinction between  maximum and continuous
rating numbers.
This information  is  essentially  applicable to every brand of inverter.
There are three ratings you need to  be aware of.
Surge
Maximum &
Continuous

The surge rating is the power output which can be sustained  for only a few
seconds before overheating occurs.

The maximum rating is a short term  value  at which the inverter can
operate while cold or at room temperature.
The maximum output is  determined by the design and current handling
capacity of the  semiconductors.

At this power level  some heat is generated which is dissipated by the
cooling  fins. However the heat build up is greater than the  heat
dissipation and eventually the  circuitry cannot sustain  that power level
any longer as the heat sink gets hotter.
A well dsigned unit will scale back the  maximum possible  wattage in
direct proportion to this heat,  until finally  it shuts off entirely.
This is called thermal shut down.

The continuous rating is the maximum  power output which  can be sustained
while  matching the heat dissipation  with the heat generation.  In other
words the  unit only gets so hot and then stays there.  At this power
level the  heat sink can  keep the internal temperatures stable and within
the operating limits of the semiconductor devices.

When assessing which inverter  you need for a particular application  you
need to be aware of the starting surge of the appliance.
This value will be  from  three  to  seven times the running current level.
Check the  manufacturers spec sheet for details.

For short term high power output  such as for a coffe maker, microwave oven
and  intermittent use appliance you  then look at the  maximum rating.
The total load of all devices drawing power from the  inverter cannot
exceed this  amount and it can not be sustained for more than a short
while, say an hour or so.

Continuous rating is  just that.  It is on all the time.
Assuming  that the start surge is not excessive or that the  various loads
are started  one after the other you cannot exceed  the  continuous
rating; or the  inverter will go into  thermal shut down.

This si why  it is so important to locate the  inverter in a cool
compartment away from  the heat of the engines.  You derate the inverter
as the ambient temperature goes up.

A typical  application would be a lighting load or heater running all the
time.
A water tank heater will not run continuously.  It cycles on and off. So
does a refrigerator.  The duty cycle is the ratio of on time versu off time.

A fridge which runs at the 500 watt level and  surges to a 1500 watt level
while starting needs a 1000 watt inverter, not a 500 watt inverter.
Another fridge which runs at  600 - 800 watts and surges to  2500 watts
starting  will not start on a 1000 watt inverter, but it would keep
running  if you  could transfer the load after it was started.

Someone mentioned a TV that  would not start on a 140 watt inverter but
would run if it was first  started on shore power.
The cold start surge  is what  kills the  140 watt inverter.  However once
started and hot then  you can run the  90 watt TV on the 140 watt inverter.

Every brand of inverter has  different performance specs.  It is important
that you do a complete energy budget before you  go and buy an inverter.
Then you can make  an intelligent comparison to determine which  model
best fits your needs and pocket book.

Hope this helps

Arild

At 06:41 PM 03/04/2000 -0800, Mike Tellup wrote: > >I was in error. The Statpower I have is rated for 800w continuous, >1000 w for 5 min. and 2000w surge. > >Thanks to Arild for a private email pointing out I might have misread >the specs. > >Mike Tellup >IV Roman - 34 Mainship II >Havre de Grace, MD Arild adds I would like to clarify the distinction between maximum and continuous rating numbers. This information is essentially applicable to every brand of inverter. There are three ratings you need to be aware of. Surge Maximum & Continuous The surge rating is the power output which can be sustained for only a few seconds before overheating occurs. The maximum rating is a short term value at which the inverter can operate while cold or at room temperature. The maximum output is determined by the design and current handling capacity of the semiconductors. At this power level some heat is generated which is dissipated by the cooling fins. However the heat build up is greater than the heat dissipation and eventually the circuitry cannot sustain that power level any longer as the heat sink gets hotter. A well dsigned unit will scale back the maximum possible wattage in direct proportion to this heat, until finally it shuts off entirely. This is called thermal shut down. The continuous rating is the maximum power output which can be sustained while matching the heat dissipation with the heat generation. In other words the unit only gets so hot and then stays there. At this power level the heat sink can keep the internal temperatures stable and within the operating limits of the semiconductor devices. When assessing which inverter you need for a particular application you need to be aware of the starting surge of the appliance. This value will be from three to seven times the running current level. Check the manufacturers spec sheet for details. For short term high power output such as for a coffe maker, microwave oven and intermittent use appliance you then look at the maximum rating. The total load of all devices drawing power from the inverter cannot exceed this amount and it can not be sustained for more than a short while, say an hour or so. Continuous rating is just that. It is on all the time. Assuming that the start surge is not excessive or that the various loads are started one after the other you cannot exceed the continuous rating; or the inverter will go into thermal shut down. This si why it is so important to locate the inverter in a cool compartment away from the heat of the engines. You derate the inverter as the ambient temperature goes up. A typical application would be a lighting load or heater running all the time. A water tank heater will not run continuously. It cycles on and off. So does a refrigerator. The duty cycle is the ratio of on time versu off time. A fridge which runs at the 500 watt level and surges to a 1500 watt level while starting needs a 1000 watt inverter, not a 500 watt inverter. Another fridge which runs at 600 - 800 watts and surges to 2500 watts starting will not start on a 1000 watt inverter, but it would keep running if you could transfer the load after it was started. Someone mentioned a TV that would not start on a 140 watt inverter but would run if it was first started on shore power. The cold start surge is what kills the 140 watt inverter. However once started and hot then you can run the 90 watt TV on the 140 watt inverter. Every brand of inverter has different performance specs. It is important that you do a complete energy budget before you go and buy an inverter. Then you can make an intelligent comparison to determine which model best fits your needs and pocket book. Hope this helps Arild
N
novacom@worldnet.att.net
Mon, Mar 6, 2000 12:57 AM

Arild Jensen wrote:

snip -- A typical  application would be a lighting load or heater running all
the
time.
A water tank heater will not run continuously.  It cycles on and off. So
does a refrigerator.  The duty cycle is the ratio of on time versu off time.
snip --
Arild

Useful load information. However, one nitpick. The duty cycle is the "on" time
divided by total time in use, not "off" time. Thanks for the info otherwise.

           Regards --- Don Dement

on Merrymar -- DeFever 48 Trawler in Annapolis

Arild Jensen wrote: > snip -- A typical application would be a lighting load or heater running all > the > time. > A water tank heater will not run continuously. It cycles on and off. So > does a refrigerator. The duty cycle is the ratio of on time versu off time. > snip -- > Arild Useful load information. However, one nitpick. The duty cycle is the "on" time divided by total time in use, not "off" time. Thanks for the info otherwise. - Regards --- Don Dement on Merrymar -- DeFever 48 Trawler in Annapolis
J
jkenyon@ssc.wisc.edu
Tue, Mar 7, 2000 1:33 AM

Arild -

Thank you for a very nice, clear description of the various rating numbers
for inverters. I am in the process of purchasing an inverter for use on our
small cruiser (our trawler is still a couple of years away) and I will use
your information.

Jeff

<<snip>>

I would like to clarify  the distinction between  maximum and continuous
rating numbers.
This information  is  essentially  applicable to every brand of inverter.
There are three ratings you need to  be aware of.
Surge
Maximum &
Continuous

<<snip>>

Jeff Kenyon
m/v Paleo Boat
25' Trojan
Algoma, WI
(Retiring in less than four years and looking for a trawler)

Arild - Thank you for a very nice, clear description of the various rating numbers for inverters. I am in the process of purchasing an inverter for use on our small cruiser (our trawler is still a couple of years away) and I will use your information. Jeff <<snip>> >I would like to clarify the distinction between maximum and continuous >rating numbers. >This information is essentially applicable to every brand of inverter. >There are three ratings you need to be aware of. >Surge >Maximum & >Continuous > <<snip>> Jeff Kenyon m/v Paleo Boat 25' Trojan Algoma, WI (Retiring in less than four years and looking for a trawler)