Now let's get one thing straight.  I'm not condemning my boat to the world,
I have said OVER and OVER "I LOVE my Nordhavn 40".

A.  I have acknowledged in my postings that it's my PERCEPTION based on my
experience that it wanders a lot.  This is based on other boats I've owned.
When Peter P. said he has operated 40's and they have not been any better or
worse than other boats, that was very valuable feedback, and helps me modify
my perception.

B.  I did install a secondary autopilot and did introduce air in the system.
I did follow the manufactures bleeding process.  There is less than 1 inch
of play in the system, I can't tell you if thats normal or not?

C.  I have seen the video of the boat running downswell in the med.  Didn't
you have paravanes out during those storms?  My boat doesn't have paravanes,
only TRAC fins.  I believe the paravanes improve downswell tracking, but my
lack of experience here leaves me in a poor position to state it as fact.  I
can tell you when we broached the boat enter Puesta del Sol it wasn't
because of a lack of steering input on my part.

D.  If your not hand steering how would you experience the minor wandering
I'm describing?  It's only experienced when hand steering, otherwise the AP
take care of it with a bump to the left, a bump to the right a bump to the
left, on and  on and on and on.

Jim, I sense you think I'm bashing the boat or PAE.  This forum is a place
for open and honest exchange of information.  I'm simply relating my
experience.  If you or any representative or the company would like to take
a look at the boat and tell me if it's performing normally I'd welcome the
interaction.  The only time someone from PAE has been on the boat was during
the sea trial and offshore delivery and I operated the boat 99% of the time.
I'm going to be in Stuart FL to have the paint repaired, this would be a
good time to have someone look at it.  Thanks!  Scott

Thanks for additional feedback on things to check.  Per Ron R I will look at
the ram and other components to make sure everything is sound.  Regarding
the Hynautic pressurized steering, on my boat it specifies 12 to 20 lbs of
pressure (from memory, not at the boat).  Its been on 20lbs and has only
required a single stroke of a mini bike pump in 3 years.  I believe the
hydraulic system is working perfectly.

I've played with the autopilot and am delighted with how it handles a
following sea.  Unlike most Nordhavn boats I have a Furuno autopilot and
have been really happy with it.  Like Johns 55 my 40 will yaw as it is
overtaken by a wave from behind.  I don't know how Jim can state the boat
behaves beautifully in all sea conditions, because this is a property of a
square stern.  It's a compromise for storage capacity, one I'm delighted
with.  If the 40 had a nice beautiful rounded stern like the Krogen 44 Im
sure it would behave differently.  Am I complaining?  NO, all boats are a
compromise and this is one Im just fine with.

Thanks!  Scott Bulger, proud owner of a Nordhavn 40, Alanui, Seattle WA
Currently floating in a river at the Costa Rica Yacht Club

Dear Scott:

I'm sorry if I offended you but when we noted the following statement in your
postings we recognized that something is wrong with your specific boat and
that you are incorrect in your presumption about the hull being unstable due
to the Maintenance Strakes.

You write:

The boat, with the fins off and pinned wanders all over the sea like a sailor
on shore leave in the Roja district.

My 40' Nordhavn won't go 100 yards in a straight direction.  It never steers a
set course without constant input from the autopilot or helm.  This is not a
function of the stabilizing fins, it does it with our without the fins active.
I suspect the hull is unstable due to the "maintenance strakes" that give you
the wonderful walk around in the engine room, a good compromise overall.

I have seen problems associated with air in the steering system for years on
all of our models. On the first Nordhavn 46 we were completely dumbfounded by
the symptoms of air and were temporary terrified that the fundamental design
of the 46 was flawed. Hand steering the boat was very disconcerting with a
severe lack of control. As described in yesterdays email the effect of air in
the system will cause real control problems contrary to some of the opinions
offered by your friends.

Well obviously the problem with the first 46 was diagnosed - the system bled
(it took numerous tries), the handling settled down and the boat (over 80
built) went on to develop a reputation for excellent handling and steering
qualities. You will note that the 46 has finer lines than does the 40 and her
stern is very rounded at the waterline. The 40 has a much fuller stern
sections than the 46, carries her weight much better, steers just as well down
swell, pitches less up swell and has a better ride at anchor. The 40 is
slightly less efficient (relatively) due to the fuller hull sections and
broader stern.

I suggest that you take a close look at the steering system and make sure you
have no air trapped within it. Contrary to other opinions I have seen posted -
having a consistent 30 lbs of air within the air reservoir does not mean your
system if free of air - the pressure will help but you must remember that the
systems operates at pressures in excess of 1,000 lbs and it's possible that
air is compressed within the system but still causing steering problems. Bleed
it exactly per Hynautic's recommendation - we've tried to vary from those
directions and have found that the process cannot be varied. One more thing -
I understand that after you bought the boat you added another autopilot pump.
If the autopilot is mounted in such a way that any of the hoses or the pump
itself creates a high spot in the system - then air can get trapped and normal
bleeding may not be enough to eliminate it.

Regarding your specific questions:

A.    No answer requested

B.    I've addressed this above

C.    Paravanes were only used in the roughest of conditions or when the fins
were in-op. Paravanes do help with steering in very rough weather but the boat
does fine without them. Your condition of wandering in flat water while hand
steering with fins centered and pinned would not be helped with Paravanes.

D.    I hand steered our 40s many, many times but made the point that we never
had to due to rough weather. It's not uncommon with a boat with bad steering
qualities to overwhelm the autopilot under even moderate down swell conditions

• with hand steering a necessity.

In any case - if you cannot successfully bleed the steering system we can take
a look at it when you arrive in Stuart for you window repair. John Hoffman -
our service manager is very familiar with the process.

Best regards,

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Scott E. Bulger
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:07 AM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: Re: [PUP] Emergency tiller

Now let's get one thing straight.  I'm not condemning my boat to the world,

I have said OVER and OVER "I LOVE my Nordhavn 40".

A.  I have acknowledged in my postings that it's my PERCEPTION based on my

experience that it wanders a lot.  This is based on other boats I've owned.

When Peter P. said he has operated 40's and they have not been any better or

worse than other boats, that was very valuable feedback, and helps me modify

my perception.

B.  I did install a secondary autopilot and did introduce air in the system.

I did follow the manufactures bleeding process.  There is less than 1 inch

of play in the system, I can't tell you if thats normal or not?

C.  I have seen the video of the boat running downswell in the med.  Didn't

you have paravanes out during those storms?  My boat doesn't have paravanes,

only TRAC fins.  I believe the paravanes improve downswell tracking, but my

lack of experience here leaves me in a poor position to state it as fact.  I

can tell you when we broached the boat enter Puesta del Sol it wasn't

because of a lack of steering input on my part.

D.  If your not hand steering how would you experience the minor wandering

I'm describing?  It's only experienced when hand steering, otherwise the AP

take care of it with a bump to the left, a bump to the right a bump to the

left, on and  on and on and on.

Jim, I sense you think I'm bashing the boat or PAE.  This forum is a place

for open and honest exchange of information.  I'm simply relating my

experience.  If you or any representative or the company would like to take

a look at the boat and tell me if it's performing normally I'd welcome the

interaction.  The only time someone from PAE has been on the boat was during

the sea trial and offshore delivery and I operated the boat 99% of the time.

I'm going to be in Stuart FL to have the paint repaired, this would be a

good time to have someone look at it.  Thanks!  Scott

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Jim,  Thoughts below...

Dear Scott:

I'm sorry if I offended you but when we noted the following statement in
your
postings we recognized that something is wrong with your specific boat and
that you are incorrect in your presumption about the hull being unstable due
to the Maintenance Strakes.

[scott]  Fist, I'm not in the least bit offended, this is a valuable
discussion and the feedback of someone with your experience is of the utmost
value.  I am simply relating my experience so that others may benefit.  I am
also the first to admit that my experience level is that of Novice, I am
open to any and all feedback to any of my thoughts ideas or opinions (well,
perhaps except about catamarans).

You write:

The boat, with the fins off and pinned wanders all over the sea like a
sailor
on shore leave in the Roja district.

My 40' Nordhavn won't go 100 yards in a straight direction.  It never steers
a
set course without constant input from the autopilot or helm.  This is not a
function of the stabilizing fins, it does it with our without the fins
active.
I suspect the hull is unstable due to the "maintenance strakes" that give
you
the wonderful walk around in the engine room, a good compromise overall.

[scott]  Yes I did write that and nothing I have read in any of the
subsequent posts has changed my opinion.  As a matter of fact, as a result
of my post I have been contacted by several people that agree their boats
exhibit exactly the same trait that I described, that being that the boat
will only hold a heading for 10 or 20 seconds prior to needing a "bit" of
helm input.  This isn't a big deal, it's not a major defect in the boat, it
seems to me its simply the function of a complex shape moving through the
water with lots of appendages and dynamics going on.  To expect a N40 or any
trawler to steer like a sailboat would be crazy.

I have seen problems associated with air in the steering system for years on
all of our models. On the first Nordhavn 46 we were completely dumbfounded
by
the symptoms of air and were temporary terrified that the fundamental design
of the 46 was flawed. Hand steering the boat was very disconcerting with a
severe lack of control. As described in yesterdays email the effect of air
in
the system will cause real control problems contrary to some of the opinions
offered by your friends.

[scott] I am sure air in the system would result in unsatisfactory
performance.  As I have said, I don't believe this is the case with my boat,
but Ill give it a look when I am in Stewart FL.

Well obviously the problem with the first 46 was diagnosed - the system bled
(it took numerous tries), the handling settled down and the boat (over 80
built) went on to develop a reputation for excellent handling and steering
qualities. You will note that the 46 has finer lines than does the 40 and
her
stern is very rounded at the waterline. The 40 has a much fuller stern
sections than the 46, carries her weight much better, steers just as well
down
swell, pitches less up swell and has a better ride at anchor. The 40 is
slightly less efficient (relatively) due to the fuller hull sections and
broader stern.

[scott]  I will make sure to keep the paragraph above and use it in my
advertisement for selling my 40 in a year or so!  It might help me win a
sale against a 46!  Thanks for the wonderful accolades of the 40, as I have
said, I love this boat!!!

I suggest that you take a close look at the steering system and make sure
you
have no air trapped within it.

[scott]  I will do that in Stuart, it is just fine till then!

Contrary to other opinions I have seen posted -
having a consistent 30 lbs of air within the air reservoir does not mean
your
system if free of air - the pressure will help but you must remember that
the
systems operates at pressures in excess of 1,000 lbs and it's possible that
air is compressed within the system but still causing steering problems.
Bleed
it exactly per Hynautic's recommendation - we've tried to vary from those
directions and have found that the process cannot be varied. One more thing

I understand that after you bought the boat you added another autopilot
pump.
If the autopilot is mounted in such a way that any of the hoses or the pump
itself creates a high spot in the system - then air can get trapped and
normal
bleeding may not be enough to eliminate it.

[scott]  We followed the instructions EXACTLY.  I think the way we
determined we did not have residual air was to turn the wheel lock to lock.
There were two things we observed:  a.  There is absolutely a positive stop
when reaching the end of the ram travel.  B.  The number of revolutions from
lock to lock, and the relative position of the wheel remains constant.
Additionally, feedback put into the wheel is almost immediately registered
on the rudder position indicator of the dual autopilots.  However, the
advice is good and I'll check it out when I get a chance.  Oh, nothing is
higher then the ram, it's a foot or so above both pumps and associated
hoses.

Jim, thanks for participating in the list and taking an interest in my boat.
I think we have spent way more time discussing a nuance of the boat then is
necessary.  I was trying to be funny with my drunk sailor postings, it
wasn't intended to slight the boat or PAE.  Bad thing about email, its so
easy to misunderstand someones intention.  Again, thanks,

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
Currently in Costa Rica