10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
Tom.
OK the challenge simple. CD4046 16 MHz vco and div by 8 using a 2 Mhz ref.
Thats pretty easy as they say.
As an alternative and very easy 10 MHz div 2 2MHz X 4 X 2. This requires
BPF but pretty easy also.
Lastly an injection osc. 10 Mhz div to 2 Mhz differentiate and feed to a 16
Mhz osc.
Thats actually the easiest of the approaches.
Regards
Paul
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@leapsecond.com wrote:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price
and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute
long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was
wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not
SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
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Since injection locking is possible when the ratio of the 2 frequencies
involved is a rational number, a 16 MHz oscillator can be directly
injection locked to a 10MHz signal without the need for dividers etc.
Bruce
paul swed wrote:
Tom.
OK the challenge simple. CD4046 16 MHz vco and div by 8 using a 2 Mhz ref.
Thats pretty easy as they say.
As an alternative and very easy 10 MHz div 2 2MHz X 4 X 2. This requires
BPF but pretty easy also.
Lastly an injection osc. 10 Mhz div to 2 Mhz differentiate and feed to a 16
Mhz osc.
Thats actually the easiest of the approaches.
Regards
Paul
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Tom Van Baaktvb@leapsecond.com wrote:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price
and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute
long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was
wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not
SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
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Bruce is right about that fact. Thanks.
Square up the 10 Mhz. Diff the leading edge (It actually doesn't matter)
maybe 2-5pf cap and 300 ohm R to ground. Feed this into a transistor that
is in the bottom end of a one transistor oscillator. There are actually
several ways to inject. Think of a totem pole of 2 transistors.
Use google and do a search and you will see what I am talking about. There
were some articles that the spread spectrum hams used that describe it.
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Bruce Griffiths
bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nzwrote:
Since injection locking is possible when the ratio of the 2 frequencies
involved is a rational number, a 16 MHz oscillator can be directly
injection locked to a 10MHz signal without the need for dividers etc.
Bruce
paul swed wrote:
Tom.
OK the challenge simple. CD4046 16 MHz vco and div by 8 using a 2 Mhz ref.
Thats pretty easy as they say.
As an alternative and very easy 10 MHz div 2 2MHz X 4 X 2. This requires
BPF but pretty easy also.
Lastly an injection osc. 10 Mhz div to 2 Mhz differentiate and feed to a
16
Mhz osc.
Thats actually the easiest of the approaches.
Regards
Paul
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Tom Van Baaktvb@leapsecond.com wrote:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low
price
and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute
long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was
wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not
SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
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Hi
I think I'd second the thought of join with an ARM or something like it that will be happy with 10 MHz in. Next choice would be a PIC24 / dsPIC33 that's also happy with 10 MHz in. The money you will pay for the clock conversion chip(s) will go a long way spent on a CPU.
Bob
On Jan 2, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@LeapSecond.com wrote:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
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Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must.
Probably not the simplest way, but straightforward & maybe you can
recycle parts of it:
http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/vnwa_sync_1.1.pdf
http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/vnwa_sync_1.1_layout.png
That's how I did (optional) 10 MHz ---> 32 MHz for my DG8SAQ VNWA.
parts are cheap & available @ digikey.
regards, Gerhard
I looked at the TI chip that really seems simple.
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann dk4xp@arcor.de wrote:
Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price
and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute
long-term phase coherence is a must.
Probably not the simplest way, but straightforward & maybe you can recycle
parts of it:
http://www.hoffmann-**hochfrequenz.de/downloads/**vnwa_sync_1.1.pdfhttp://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/vnwa_sync_1.1.pdf
http://www.hoffmann-**hochfrequenz.de/downloads/**vnwa_sync_1.1_layout.pnghttp://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/vnwa_sync_1.1_layout.png
That's how I did (optional) 10 MHz ---> 32 MHz for my DG8SAQ VNWA.
parts are cheap & available @ digikey.
regards, Gerhard
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The optimum width of the injection pulse is equal to 1/2 the period of
the output frequency of the injection locked oscillator.
In this case a pulse width of around 31.25ns
Bruce
paul swed wrote:
Bruce is right about that fact. Thanks.
Square up the 10 Mhz. Diff the leading edge (It actually doesn't matter)
maybe 2-5pf cap and 300 ohm R to ground. Feed this into a transistor that
is in the bottom end of a one transistor oscillator. There are actually
several ways to inject. Think of a totem pole of 2 transistors.
Use google and do a search and you will see what I am talking about. There
were some articles that the spread spectrum hams used that describe it.
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Bruce Griffiths
bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nzwrote:
Since injection locking is possible when the ratio of the 2 frequencies
involved is a rational number, a 16 MHz oscillator can be directly
injection locked to a 10MHz signal without the need for dividers etc.
Bruce
paul swed wrote:
Tom.
OK the challenge simple. CD4046 16 MHz vco and div by 8 using a 2 Mhz ref.
Thats pretty easy as they say.
As an alternative and very easy 10 MHz div 2 2MHz X 4 X 2. This requires
BPF but pretty easy also.
Lastly an injection osc. 10 Mhz div to 2 Mhz differentiate and feed to a
16
Mhz osc.
Thats actually the easiest of the approaches.
Regards
Paul
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Tom Van Baaktvb@leapsecond.com wrote:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low
price
and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute
long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was
wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not
SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
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Tom,
This may not be the answer you are looking for, but the simplest way may be
to use a uC that has a PLL for clock generation.
Didier
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@leapsecond.com wrote:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price
and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute
long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was
wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not
SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
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How about simply using a 16MHz GPSDO?
We have shipped FireFly-1A units with 16MHz Ocxo..
Those can also generate 16MHz out of a 1PPS reference.
Bye,
Said
Sent From iPhone
On Jan 2, 2013, at 12:58, Gerhard Hoffmann dk4xp@arcor.de wrote:
Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must.
Probably not the simplest way, but straightforward & maybe you can recycle parts of it:
http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/vnwa_sync_1.1.pdf
http://www.hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de/downloads/vnwa_sync_1.1_layout.png
That's how I did (optional) 10 MHz ---> 32 MHz for my DG8SAQ VNWA.
parts are cheap & available @ digikey.
regards, Gerhard
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 02/01/13 19:54, Tom Van Baak wrote:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I was wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and maybe not SSOP. Any suggestions?
One approach is to divide by 5 to get 2 MHz, but recalling that the 20%
PWM factor (top bit of divide by 5 counter) has a strong 8th overtone
compared to the 40% PWM factor, an LC-tank at 16 MHz and a simple
gain-stage (such as the Wenzel sine input) should be able to pull it
off. The divide by 5 is standard TTL/CMOS of your choosing.
Cheers,
Magnus
Tom,
my 50 cents are: Use a 1 Euro expensive ICS503 in a SOIC package to generate
a 160 MHz signal from the 10 MHz without further components needed (except
one c on the VCC and one on the input) and then divide by 10. Expect a 50 ps
one sigma jitter on the output. You MUST use capacitive coupling with an
external oscillator. Easily breadboarded! Have used such a configuration to
generate phase locked clock signals for older FPGAs without internal clock
generation.
Best regards
Ulrich
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Von: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
[mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Tom Van Baak
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2013 19:55
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This
will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz
(Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal;
jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase
coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I
was wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional,
and maybe not SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
A week ago I asked about a 10 MHz to 16 MHz multiplier. Thanks very much for the suggestions and interesting discussion.
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This
will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz
(Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter
is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I
was wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and
maybe not SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
A few of you wanted to know more background. Some portable microcontroller-based timer/counters use a 16 MHz xtal timebase. To transparently give them "atomic" accuracy I thought it would be a cute hack to simply feed them 16 MHz as derived from a good 10 MHz (which we all have). For a quick test I used a house 10 MHz referenced DS345 to produce the 16 MHz square wave. I know some DDS have round-off error but the DS345, at least at this frequency, maintained phase to the nanosecond.
Not wanting to tie up my DS345 indefinitely, I wondered for this fixed 10:16 (5:8) frequency ratio if there was cheap, simple, or clever solution. The TAPR Clock-Block came to mind. The ICS525 chip it uses is cheap (under $5) and trivial to configure so that was clearly one solution. But I was curious what the group would propose.
Anyway, thanks to all who contributed. If there are any stones left unturned, send me email off-line.
/tvb
Don't leave us in suspense :-) What method did you decide to use?
Joe Gray
W5JG
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@leapsecond.com wrote:
A week ago I asked about a 10 MHz to 16 MHz multiplier. Thanks very much for the suggestions and interesting discussion.
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This
will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz
(Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter
is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a good candidate but I
was wondering if there's something cheaper, less functional, and
maybe not SSOP. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
/tvb
A few of you wanted to know more background. Some portable microcontroller-based timer/counters use a 16 MHz xtal timebase. To transparently give them "atomic" accuracy I thought it would be a cute hack to simply feed them 16 MHz as derived from a good 10 MHz (which we all have). For a quick test I used a house 10 MHz referenced DS345 to produce the 16 MHz square wave. I know some DDS have round-off error but the DS345, at least at this frequency, maintained phase to the nanosecond.
Not wanting to tie up my DS345 indefinitely, I wondered for this fixed 10:16 (5:8) frequency ratio if there was cheap, simple, or clever solution. The TAPR Clock-Block came to mind. The ICS525 chip it uses is cheap (under $5) and trivial to configure so that was clearly one solution. But I was curious what the group would propose.
Anyway, thanks to all who contributed. If there are any stones left unturned, send me email off-line.
/tvb
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